I purchased a Henry AR-7 Survial rifle today (and a 625)

[taylorkh]

The AR-7 is my third. The first was a genuine Armalite which I sold as I was not really impressed with it. Considering what the originals bring these days... I could have tolerated the lack of impression for 40+ years The second was from one of the intermediate manufacturers who owned the tooling for a while. It fired when the trigger was pulled and fired when the trigger was released. It went back to the dealer the next day for disposal. The Henry rifle seems much improved and works fine - even with some rubbish Winchester bulk ammo which... let me not go there.

The rifle was an after thought to the Performance Center 625. I have several revolvers which use moon clips (a S&W 1917, a Webley Mk V and a Mk IV) as well as 3 J frames and 2 K frames. The first 3 I do not shoot very often. Most recently on their 100th birthdays (2018, 2015 and 2016 respectively.) So I have a bunch of .45 moon clips lying around. Might as well get a revolver to use them in

I picked up the 625 at a local gun show today. The action is quite nice - until I loaded some ammo. I filled several moon clips with handloads on WCC military brass which I use in my assorted 1911s and on occasion the antique revolvers. Cylinder binding in the 625 to put it mildly.

Back to the shop for some investigation. The small quantity of moon clips which came with the revolver measure 0.040" - 0.041" thick. All of the other "generic" moon clips which I have purchased over the past 40 years, from various sources, measure 0.045" - 0.046" thick. Enough to make the difference. I tried some of the same lot of ammo in the thin clips and it rotated just fine. Which brings me to my question...

Where does one purchase thin .45ACP moon clips? Are they a S&W special item? I will try some commercial brass and see if I can find some with perhaps thinner rims that the military brass. I also have some .45 Auto Rim brass which I will try and see how it fits. What a fiasco.

TIA,

Ken

 

[taylorkh]

This post got hung up in moderation for some reason and I never received a notification that it had been posted. Just found it today.

To answer my question... The S&W .040" moon clips are sourced from TK Custom. I have dealt with them over the years for .38 moon clips. Closer examination of my stash of moon clips shows that most are .045" and a few are .048". Commercial brass seems to work OK even with the thickest clips. However, an extractor or ejector ding from firing in a 1911 will sometimes drag in the 625. I have ordered some new brass which I will reserve for use in the revolver.

Ken

 

[Dale53]

Ken;
I have been "playing" with .45 ACP revolvers for obout 70 years (not a misprint). I have NEVER had a problem with headspace in the various revolvers, Colt, Smith and Ruger (as well as a short spell with a Taurus).

Just goes to show that you NEVER learn it all... Thanks for sharing your experiences, that is what helps us all to have our learning grow.

I have a large stash of military brass left over from my IPSC days and, frankly, it is my preferred brass for my 1911's. It has never given me a problem with my Ranch Products full moon clips.

The only "problem" I have had is my early days with full moon clips coming to the realization that a person NEEDS tools to safely use them (loading and unloading the clips). OF course, in the early years, the half moon clips were easily loaded with the fingers...

I am a BIG fan of the 625's. In the past ten years or so, I have worked extensively with a 5" Model of 1989, 625-6 and a 625-8 with 4" barrel (a JM Special. I predict that you will LOVE your 625.

The Taurus Tracker that I had was a very nice revolver and a near perfect trail piece. However, it used special VERY thin full moon clips and needed a throat job if I was going to keep it. I did learn one thing, tho' - Cowboy Special brass worked perfectly in the Taurus and gave the same benefits as Auto Rim brass in the 625's...

By the way, to any who might not know it - Starline Auto Rim brass is far superior to what was originally available (Remington). Brass life is almost "forever" with Starline. REALLY good stuff.

Also, I can recommend the polymer/hydrocarbon RIMZ clips for general use. They can be easily loaded and unloaded with out using tools. I often use them with ACP cases...

RIMZ 625 - RIMZ 625 Polymer Moonclips

FWIW
Dale53

 

[.38SuperMan]

Ken I have my second 625-2 and use a mix of brass that some is easily 60 years old. Some was my dads that he shot in his Colt and other is military and commercial I've bought and picked up off the range. I also shot it for years in IPSC in both my 625-2 and 1911's.

The only issues I've experienced have been bent clips and an occasional high primer that I didn't get seated properly when reloading. I've had no issues with dings from my 1911's during ejection.

I'll agree loading and unloading tools are a good investment. For years I loaded my full moons with my fingers but a TK loader made life much easier.

 

[taylorkh]

Thanks Dale53,

I am not sure when my original post finally showed up. Once I replied to my own post I have received two other replies almost immediately. Oh well.

I have a family heirloom S&W 1917 which was manufactured in March 1918 per my research. My Dad had a machinist friend named John Pillar bore out the cylinders for .45 Colt. I remember as a little kid meeting Mr. Pillar and his daughter who was about my age. And I recall the the girl, for some reason, bit me on the back. The little booger had braces and I swear she bit all the way to the bone. Her dad grabbed her by the scruff of the neck and tossed her in the car and away they went. But I digress...

The 1917 of course will not fire reliably as the rim on the .45 Colt is thinner than the .45 ACP with moon clips or the .45 AR. As the cylinder is bored out for the .45 Colt, the bullet from the ACP will flop around as it travels from the cartridge case to the end of the chamber. My solution was to load .45 ACP power loads into .45 Win Mag cases which are longer and put the bullet towards the end of the chamber. The Win Mag cases are just a beefed up and stretched version of the .45 ACP so they fit in moon clips just fine. I also use moon clips in two Webley revolvers. A Mk V from 1915 and a Mk VI from 1916. I fired each of them for their 100th birthdays

I have a stock of Starline brass in various calibers in my reserve brasss stash. I have used Starline brass with the Midway head stamp in 9mm and .357 Mag. It is good stuff. I was going to order some in .45 ACP but they were a little too proud. I have some RWS coming in. If it is as good as their air rifle pellets and .22 LR match ammo it should be top quality.

Purchasing .45 ACP brass new really hurts my feeling I started loading .45 ACP in 1976. I cleaned out all the gun shops in the Tidewater VA area of once fired brass. Then, by a little comshaw trading I procured several thousand rounds of brass from a couple of Navy installations. Still have a bunch of that. I only recall purchasing a NEW box of 50 RP nickel plated cases - which I still have - never used.

Back to the moon clips... I do have the plier like loading tool with the two holes in the end of the handle for unloading. It is a definite requirement.

And to the 625... I got tired of waiting for S&W to make one with a longer barrel (for the sight radius) so I purchased the 4" barrel. With the shortened cylinder on the Performance Center revolver the sight radius is shortened even more. I will shoot it for a while but I may get a longer tube installed.

Thanks 38SuperMan,

Some damage to the brass and the thicker clips were my thoughts on why the military brass was giving me issues. Perhaps the brass was a little out of spec(?) I will be trying the RWS brass once it arrives.

Ken