I recommended a 22LR for self defense/conceal carry today

[CalmerThanYou]

Not every one has the time, access to training or physical ability to master the Phoenix Eye or feared Leopard Paw.
Not every one is cut out to EDC a 1911
Some folks may not be qualified to drive a Mclaren 675LT Spider.
She may not be down with mastering the latest and greatest tactical training.
One thing for sure, is she got honest, unbiased exposure to multiple choices and selected the one she could employ now. She may like it so much she decides to get training to move up the caliber ladder.
One more responsible armed citizen seems like a win to me.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I've never thought much of part time limited service reserve police officer pontificating. . .

Just out of curiosity, who thinks this article shows a lack of common sense and understanding of human nature by Mas Ayoob?

The Real Ladies Gun -- Handguns

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Had a little technical difficulty with my penultimate (now antepenultimate) post. What disappeared was that I strongly approve of eb07's course of action, and the end result. However, I also appreciate Mister X's contributions, and believe that they should be carefully considered, as I believe eb07 effectively did. The fact (IMO) that eb07 came to the right conclusion at the right time does not even conflict with, much less subtract from, what Mister X has been asking everyone to consider.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I picked up one of these for the grandsons to shoot...


I could use it to defend myself if that's what was handy at the time.


No worries

Browning 1911 22 LR Compact

I also like this ammunition, 40 gr HP 1435 FPS

.

Hey buddy, do you need another grandson?

 

[Mister X]

Didn't the OP do exactly what your linked article recommend? The friend of the OP's wife had been to a gun store where they tried to force her to a particular type pistol. The OP let his wife's friend try different pistols. He let her pick the one she wanted to work with. He let her be in control of the decision.

ETA - Quote from the article... "The women of America know what they want. After a lifetime of getting ripped off by men in male oriented things like estimates on automobile repairs, they've learned to check things out on their own and not take a man's word for what women need." -- Telling them they need a .38 Special is no different than telling them they need a .22.

By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.

 

[eb07]

By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.

You don't learn to run before you learn to walk. You would think a self proclaimed self defense expert would know this basic building block of life. I am truly starting to believe you are a legend in your own mind and have no clue what you are talking about.

Next you will start challenging people to a duel

 

[Ziggy2525]

By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.

Fair enough, but don't you have your own set of biases and preconceptions that always end up with a centennial revolver as the solution?

 

[roscoepc]

By teaching her "proper stance, sight picture, trigger control" and achieving accuracy at 15 yards as being important considerations, he essentially guided her into selecting a weapon that seemed to be the best choice because of the parameters he set forth. I imagine he also recommended the need for relatively frequent range visits. Being untrained and uneducated, she has no foundation on which to base an informed decision by herself and is not likely going to consider or even understand the proper context of how the gun will likely actually be used in a self-defense scenario. She simply picked the best gun for range shooting.

So..... Exactly how/what was the OP supposed to do to familiarize this lady with a gun she was comfortable with?? I mean,, you've picked apart everything he has done as wrong but offered NO solutions to what you consider as problems??

And don't even say the first mistake was the caliber she chose.. Don't EVEN go there!! A .22LR CCI MiniMag is more than enough if the shooter unloads a full mag or cylinder, IF they hit center mass!!

So... Enlighten me... I'm all Eye's.... But Please.. No long Bloviations that don't really say anything. You've done enough of that....

 

[sigp220.45]

I've never thought much of part time limited service reserve police officer pontificating. . .

.....from the gritty streets of Grantham, NH, population 2985.

 

[Muss Muggins]

.....from the gritty streets of Grantham, NH, population 2985.

Potentially the post of the month . . .

(Edit: Ayoob is a member. Awaiting his reply)

 

[Thin Man]

Say what you will about the various training regimens and weapon choices, but at the end of the day a magazine of CCI Stingers or Mini Mags headed in one's direction is highly likely to significantly alter one's choice in the victim selection process.
Nobody wants to "leak".

 

[Mister X]

Fair enough, but don't you have your own set of biases and preconceptions that always end up with a centennial revolver as the solution?

Absolutely. The reason I shared that article was due to his reasoning as to why the snub makes sense for civilian self-defense(in particular women), which is different when compared to what constitutes a fun or enjoyable range gun.

I'm not a fan of the any gun or caliber as being perfectly acceptable and praising an indvidual with absolutely no knowledge or experience making an uninformed choice.

A martial arts instructor wouldn't just tell a new student that all systems and techniques are equally effective and to just learn and practice whatever they like and don't consider context. And context is extremely important, but often completely overlooked. If a woman is wanting to learn practical defensive H2H skills and rape prevention as quickly as possible, she wouldn't be well served in achieving that goal spending hours practicing kata and kihon in a traditional karate dojo, but instructors can easily mislead uniformed people into believing such practices are necessary. I have seen countless people join a school with the intent and thinking they are learning methods oriented towards self-defense, when in reality the focus is actually on sport-fighting or "traditional" arts. Explain and show them the difference and most immediately get it.

I see choosing, learning to use firearms and sorting out context for personal defense being no different.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Follow up:

She ordered her handgun and texted me how excited she is to go shoot it and how she wants my wife to join her.

What a great follow up. Sharing your hobby with a sensitive shooter in a way that elicited informed interest, and an urge to shoot socially.

Congratulations on a job well done.

 

[Mister X]

You don't learn to run before you learn to walk. You would think a self proclaimed self defense expert would know this basic building block of life. I am truly starting to believe you are a legend in your own mind and have no clue what you are talking about.

Next you will start challenging people to a duel

We just have different perspectives on what the basics should consist of. The reason is you're a shooter and my focus is self-defense. I understand your approach, but I don't think you comprehend mind.

 

[Muss Muggins]

We just have different perspectives on what the basics should consist of. The reason is you're a shooter and my focus is self-defense. I understand your approach, but I don't think you comprehend mind.

My earlier offer still stands . . .

 

[Mister X]

My earlier offer still stands . . .

And that is?

 

[eb07]

We just have different perspectives on what the basics should consist of. The reason is you're a shooter and my focus is self-defense. I understand your approach, but I don't think you comprehend mind.

You don't know what I am. You hide behind your anonymity online and sling opinion and insult.

 

[BC38]

WOW! And I thought I was prone to flogging deceased ponies...

Anyway...

I applaud you eb07. You introduced a new shooter to firearms in a way that likely started her on the path to more effective self defense. And you did it despite the fact that she was already turned off by someone taking the exact approach advocated by those most critical of what you did and how you did it.

It's called baby steps. New shooters have to start somewhere and you have to start them at the level they are comfortable with. Anything else will elicit the response that this new shooter had in the past. They won't pursue it any further.

Again, nice job of helping her get started. I'd consider it a major step in the right direction if I could get my wife to carry a 22lr vs refusing to carry anything for self defense.

 

[Mister X]

You don't know what I am. You hide behind your anonymity online and sling opinion and insult.

What are you?

I formed my opinion simply on what you write and your responses to my posts. I determined you are untrained in the area I'm referencing, so you don't really understand it. How is that an insult?

 

[eb07]

What are you?

I formed my opinion simply on what you write and your responses to my posts. I determined you are untrained in the area I'm referencing, so you don't really understand it. How is that an insult?

I am the guy who thinks you are full of manure. But carry on with your fake superiority diatribe.

 

[Mister X]

I am the guy who thinks you are full of manure. But carry on with your fake superiority diatribe.

You've never explained how I'm wrong and how am I fake?

 

[Kanewpadle]

What are you?

I formed my opinion simply on what you write and your responses to my posts. I determined you are untrained in the area I'm referencing, so you don't really understand it. How is that an insult?

Leave it to you to derail yet another thread ruining things for the OP. When are you going to learn? This thread will soon be locked when it was going so well for the OP.

We would appreciate it if you would get off the soap box and give it a rest.

 

[eb07]

You've never explained how I'm wrong and how am I fake?

You never proved you are not. Put up or move on. Troll

 

[eb07]

Leave it to you to derail yet another thread ruining things for the OP. When are you going to learn? This thread will soon be locked when it was going so well for the OP.

We would appreciate it if you would get off the soap box and give it a rest.

It's ok. Never used the ignore list before. First time for everything.

 

[Mister X]

You never proved you are not. Put up or move on. Troll

Put up what?

I don't see how simply having a different perspective is trolling.

 

[Kanewpadle]

EB, you did well friend. I started my wife with 22LR 37 years ago. She graduated to a 9MM and is happy. She doesn't shoot much anymore because of rheumatoid arthritis, but she can defend herself if need be.

Continue with this lady. Teach her what you know. Hope she never has to use is but is prepared to do so.

Teaching another to be able to protect themselves is gratifying for you and them. Keep it up.

 

[Kanewpadle]

It's ok. Never used the ignore list before. First time for everything.

Me either. Never got used to turning the other cheek. But as I get older, it's simply easier to ignore some people.

 

[roscoepc]

Put up what?

I don't see how simply having a different perspective is trolling.

Don't listen to them Mister X!!! Your NOT a Troll.. You are merely someone who bloviates about how wrong someone is without saying just what the correct way is! And the post's about Martial Art's, Well.... That REALLY put everyone in their place!! I mean that has a lot to do with teaching someone how to shoot!!

But don't worry... I won't tell anyone about your secret on just how you kicked a basketball hoop when you were younger... We just can't have everyone going to the sporting goods store or Walmart and kick them while they are still in the box on the shelf....

 

[BC38]

Don't listen to them Mister X!!! Your NOT a Troll.. You are merely someone who bloviates about how wrong someone is without saying just what the correct way is! And the post's about Martial Art's, Well.... That REALLY put everyone in their place!! I mean that has a lot to do with teaching someone how to shoot!!

But don't worry... I won't tell anyone about your secret on just how you kicked a basketball hoop when you were younger... We just can't have everyone going to the sporting goods store or Walmart and kick them while they are still in the box on the shelf....

DUDE! C'mon!

This thread FINALLY about to get to the point where he MAYBE would have been ready to give it a rest - and instead you had to go cranking him up again?!?

Seriously?!?

 

[roscoepc]

DUDE! C'mon!

This thread FINALLY about to get to the point where he MAYBE would have been ready to give it a rest - and instead you had to go cranking him up again?!?

Seriously?!?

After 3 pages? Yeah, Seriously. This Twit has beaten on the OP for no good reason and he's not gonna quit.. Until he has to back to the Mall at least....