I seriously can't take anymore of the 3rd gen prices
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VTHokiesDuckHunter
Member
To each his own. I wouldn't pay $300 for a new G30. The only polymer framed guns I like are the Walther PPS in 9mm or .40 S&W- probably one of the best polymer guns for CCW ever; and the FNP and FNX for a double stack, high capacity, hammer fired DA/SA gun with great ergonomics and one of the best factory triggers going. Try an FNX some time and you'll trade your Glock the next day. If you really insist on a striker version, they now make one called the FNS. I also like a few of the HK's.
But one only has to look at the prices, and robust sales, of the SIG's, Beretta 92's, CZ's, and especially the actual sales prices of the sweet little Beretta Cheetah's (85 and 84 models), and the excellent Browning BDA's to understand that the market is there for solid well built metal framed pistols with great ergonomics.
I see BDA's and Cheetah's regularly sell for $800-$1200 LNIB and NIB. Look at the prices of the SIG P232, P938, P238, and my favorite, the P229 Gen II SAS.
NIB and LNIB S&W 3rd gens are a relative bargain.
The truth is, S&W could sell every one of the following models if they would make them as "Gen 4" models:
6906
3913
4513
4013
Shorty 40, and my favorite:
4040 Scandium
I'd make a version of all the above in Scandium, with night sights, and optional checkered rosewood grips.
I'd also make all available as Melonite or Stainless/Alloy.
mountaineer40
Member
I know the feeling, I've been looking high and low for a 4506-1 decently priced. All the ones on GB are out of my price range or beat half to death. I guess I'll just have to keep looking and pray that I get lucky. I have always loved the third generation line of pistols, even as a boy, knew I was going to have one someday. Got me a 4006 from Cabela's Gun Library last year, a LE trade-in. I gave it a real good cleaning and changed some mag springs. It's a solid shooter and I'm really happy with it. This was my first handgun. It set me back about $400.
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Well lets see if I wuz robbed.
Yesterday I picked up a LNIB 4516-2 with original box & docs and two mags. $618 OTD including sales tax.
Wow, lucky you! I've had my eyes pealed for a 4513, 4516 or 4013 for a long time to no avail. Makes me wonder if they just weren't that popular around here...
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Arik
Member
Why would I need a DA/SA when a constant trigger of a DAO or stricker is consistent for each shot. Ive played with the FNX and FNS. They dont do anything a Glock doesnt. My glock mags are found in just about every store, new and used. Holsters, accessories are everywhere. And has been battle proven over and over and over.
The couple FNX I tried had a heavier DA than my striker Glock. And none of them do anything better to justify selling my Glock, which I already own, and paying for a new gun and tracking down new holsters and mags.....especially mags, in todays environment.
This doesnt mean a Glock is the end all be all of firearms. I like, and own 3rd gen Smiths and HKs. But if you look at all current handgun options, thier prices, what it takes to keep them running (gunsmithing, parts, mags, ammo, accessories if any...) Glock rules, hands down. There were other German competitors but they all failed due to not understanding the US consumer. There were others who had phenomenal grip and excellent soft shooting with low bore axis and light recoil. That company failed partially because they didnt advertise and partially because they couldn't understand why anyone besides LEO would need more than 2 mags. People couldnt get mags, people didnt buy, company folded. HK is awesome. Love them...HATE their mag prices. $60 a mag? :what: why? Also their customer service is very bad toward civilian sales. However, if you are a LE organization HK willclove you long time. Walther is trying hard and WERE succeeding but they couldn't leave well enough alone. So now their sales are hurting. The PPQ is fantastic. Great ergos, excellent stricker trigger... and they even made extra mags for those that want to be able to but 1, 5, 10 at a time .BUT.....they couldn't leave well enough alone and almost immediately made the economy version PPX. A little clunkyer in look but now with a push button mag release instead of the original paddle like the HK. So mags are different. One could argue its a different gun...ok no problem. Then they went an made a PPQ navy edition. It comes with a button release as well but also has a different proprietary mag and the older PPQ is supposed to be phased out :what: so no more original PPQ mags for those who have them. Why? You have a great design why mess with it? Instead, they should have introduced a 45 version. Glocks are the most consistent battle proven handgun that doesnt require a gunsmith to update, upgrade or fix. HK is similar. A USP mag wont work in the updated version of the same model. A compact version has different mags from the full size.
This is why I like the 3rd gens. Stayed the same, nothing to relearn or re purchase. Some stuff is even interchangeable from 1st, 2nd and 3rd gens. But they are no longer made and parts for repairs are hard to come by. This goes into account for me when I buy one. I can drop $350 for one and take the chance of a hard to find part breaking but I wont spend $500+ on something that will cost me a premium to repair
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The couple FNX I tried had a heavier DA than my striker Glock. And none of them do anything better to justify selling my Glock, which I already own, and paying for a new gun and tracking down new holsters and mags.....especially mags, in todays environment.
This doesnt mean a Glock is the end all be all of firearms. I like, and own 3rd gen Smiths and HKs. But if you look at all current handgun options, thier prices, what it takes to keep them running (gunsmithing, parts, mags, ammo, accessories if any...) Glock rules, hands down. There were other German competitors but they all failed due to not understanding the US consumer. There were others who had phenomenal grip and excellent soft shooting with low bore axis and light recoil. That company failed partially because they didnt advertise and partially because they couldn't understand why anyone besides LEO would need more than 2 mags. People couldnt get mags, people didnt buy, company folded. HK is awesome. Love them...HATE their mag prices. $60 a mag? :what: why? Also their customer service is very bad toward civilian sales. However, if you are a LE organization HK willclove you long time. Walther is trying hard and WERE succeeding but they couldn't leave well enough alone. So now their sales are hurting. The PPQ is fantastic. Great ergos, excellent stricker trigger... and they even made extra mags for those that want to be able to but 1, 5, 10 at a time .BUT.....they couldn't leave well enough alone and almost immediately made the economy version PPX. A little clunkyer in look but now with a push button mag release instead of the original paddle like the HK. So mags are different. One could argue its a different gun...ok no problem. Then they went an made a PPQ navy edition. It comes with a button release as well but also has a different proprietary mag and the older PPQ is supposed to be phased out :what: so no more original PPQ mags for those who have them. Why? You have a great design why mess with it? Instead, they should have introduced a 45 version. Glocks are the most consistent battle proven handgun that doesnt require a gunsmith to update, upgrade or fix. HK is similar. A USP mag wont work in the updated version of the same model. A compact version has different mags from the full size.
This is why I like the 3rd gens. Stayed the same, nothing to relearn or re purchase. Some stuff is even interchangeable from 1st, 2nd and 3rd gens. But they are no longer made and parts for repairs are hard to come by. This goes into account for me when I buy one. I can drop $350 for one and take the chance of a hard to find part breaking but I wont spend $500+ on something that will cost me a premium to repair
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VTHokiesDuckHunter
Member
Sure Glocks work and are fairly robust and reliable. And they have decent but not great triggers.
Mag availability? I must be living on a different planet. I have 2-4 mags for most of my guns and usually 2 is enough and 3 are great.
One thing that never changes about a Glock though, no matter if they give you 10 magazines for free. The grip angle and feel suck. At least for me.
As far as the FNS vs. Glock trigger - I couldn't really tell you. I don't like striker guns except for the rare CCW pistol like the Walther PPS that does a lot of other things right. But the DA/SA of any 3rd gen, or for that matter any SIG or the FNP/FNX platform, beats a Glock trigger hands down.
Mag availability? I must be living on a different planet. I have 2-4 mags for most of my guns and usually 2 is enough and 3 are great.
One thing that never changes about a Glock though, no matter if they give you 10 magazines for free. The grip angle and feel suck. At least for me.
As far as the FNS vs. Glock trigger - I couldn't really tell you. I don't like striker guns except for the rare CCW pistol like the Walther PPS that does a lot of other things right. But the DA/SA of any 3rd gen, or for that matter any SIG or the FNP/FNX platform, beats a Glock trigger hands down.
cpeblue
Member
Lets not get carried away here, 1st, 3rd gens are my passion I have 10 of them followed by Beretta sitting on 5, then a few Sigs and CZs . The best triggers of all my metal guns (DA/SA) are the Berettas hands down . The 3rd gens and Sigs are the same. Now, I have a few Glocks but not stock , they have Ghost triggers in them . Only my 1911s have a better trigger than the Glocks. I look at a Glock as a tool a very good tool , and the trigger is always constant with no safety to manipulate . I don't know how we got on to mags but here's my take. I don't like to drop my Smith or Sig mags on concrete, Beretta ok with the metal bottoms, Glock mags you can drop down 2or3 flights of stairs and they will be fine. As I have said before I am not a Luddite and understand things and times change I may not like it but they do. Good or bad the poly pistols are here to stay and the price of 3rd gens is will just keep going up.
Arik
Member
Beretta triggers for me are too have in DA. Heavier then they should be.
I like to have a min of 6 mags per gun and comfortable at 10 but the more the better. Like ammo, they go up in price and in some cases are not made any more
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I like to have a min of 6 mags per gun and comfortable at 10 but the more the better. Like ammo, they go up in price and in some cases are not made any more
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James&theGiant1911
Member
DA triggers are all the same to me, the striker guns like the XDM have smooth DA triggers to me and they stay on target easier. Naturally the best trigger of all are SA 1911s or even the Hi Powers. DAO Smiths have a heavy pull a lot heavier than the Sigs but they can be smoothed out quite a bit with trigger jobs but those cost money. I like the safety function of DAO or DA/ SA but the trigger will always be heavier than the crisp break of single action. As far as a Beretta, I have no idea how their DAs work or feel.
cpeblue
Member
I should have said that none of my pistols have there stock factory triggers. James, I have a XD9 I hated the trigger to the point where I was going to dump it. After some research I decided to put in a Powder River trigger kit , did that bring that pistol to life, Like day and night. When the XDM came out everyone was saying how much better the trigger was , after shooting a few I thought better but not much. I would think that a PR trigger kit for the XDM would make it sing. I have 2 friends that are Hi Power nuts and they both think I'm crazy with my 3rd gen addiction. I guess that's why there's lots of company's making different guns.
fungunnin
Member
There are still deals to be had. I just picked up a 3953 with a Kramer Holster and a full box of hydra shocks for $350.
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cpeblue
Member
Not so much on a 4513tsw or any 10mm. Still looking for a nice 4013tsw under 600.
James&theGiant1911
Member
I should have said that none of my pistols have there stock factory triggers. James, I have a XD9 I hated the trigger to the point where I was going to dump it. After some research I decided to put in a Powder River trigger kit , did that bring that pistol to life, Like day and night. When the XDM came out everyone was saying how much better the trigger was , after shooting a few I thought better but not much. I would think that a PR trigger kit for the XDM would make it sing. I have 2 friends that are Hi Power nuts and they both think I'm crazy with my 3rd gen addiction. I guess that's why there's lots of company's making different guns.[/QUOTE]
Well, I do not have the standard XDm, mine is equipped with a crimson trace Zombie laser sight so I do not really notice the trigger that much with it since I do not carry it. It was like the second pistol I ever bought and thought I would try them out. The younger crowd thinks they are cool and with the laser sight it makes for some good target practice.
The Smith and Wesson all metal guns are better for any type of carry action but I can see Poly guns have their place just not on my hip and honestly I do not think LEOs train with them to be pin point accurate, the human body is quite large so I think if you get a 9 or 40 caliber anywhere close it can be fatal. The kid in Oklahoma was killed with a .22 rifle, I figure the bullet bounced around in his body until it severed a vital artery and that was the end. Even a small caliber as that can be fatal if it hits the right organs. Crazy times require crazy action, which is why a lot of states are trying to pass open carry laws.
Well, I do not have the standard XDm, mine is equipped with a crimson trace Zombie laser sight so I do not really notice the trigger that much with it since I do not carry it. It was like the second pistol I ever bought and thought I would try them out. The younger crowd thinks they are cool and with the laser sight it makes for some good target practice.
The Smith and Wesson all metal guns are better for any type of carry action but I can see Poly guns have their place just not on my hip and honestly I do not think LEOs train with them to be pin point accurate, the human body is quite large so I think if you get a 9 or 40 caliber anywhere close it can be fatal. The kid in Oklahoma was killed with a .22 rifle, I figure the bullet bounced around in his body until it severed a vital artery and that was the end. Even a small caliber as that can be fatal if it hits the right organs. Crazy times require crazy action, which is why a lot of states are trying to pass open carry laws.
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PX15
Member
Well..
Several years ago when CDNN was selling out their NIB 3rd Gen Smiths I wound up with a NIB 3913, 3913LS, 6906, 5906, CS9, CS45.
I have since sold the CS9 and CS45 (and the CS45 brought $750 on GunBroker, what's with that ?).
My favorite is the thin and very accurate 3913LS.
J.
Several years ago when CDNN was selling out their NIB 3rd Gen Smiths I wound up with a NIB 3913, 3913LS, 6906, 5906, CS9, CS45.
I have since sold the CS9 and CS45 (and the CS45 brought $750 on GunBroker, what's with that ?).
My favorite is the thin and very accurate 3913LS.
J.
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James&theGiant1911
Member
there is a nice 3913 on GB right now for over 500 dollars, that is TSW territory just a few years ago.
VTHokiesDuckHunter
Member
Nice mint or LNIB or NIB have gone for $500-$600 and up for a long time. I still think its a steal on one of the all time best metal framed compact semi-autos.
There's nothing else made today that comes close, except the SIG P239, which goes for $750-$950 depending on model variant and options.
James&theGiant1911
Member
well that regular 3913 went for 654 delivered and a PC Shorty 40 MK3s is at 1400 with a couple of hours left right now. Dam I did not know these things have gone that high, they are out performing the stock market. These have become HOT commodities.
Outrider
Member
Smith 3rd Gens have been long underpriced
We need to see things clearly...
Smith 3rd Gens have long been ridiculously underpriced -- and we've been spoiled by the notion of $350 new, unfired 3rd Gens for much too long.
A 90 percent 4506 or 1006 for $650 to $800 is still a bargain -- when you compare them to anything else on the market.
Now the mad scramble is on to make sure we get our share to last us until our Last Gasp -- before they hit $1,000 to $1,200.
That sensation was especially acute following Obama's Gun Stimulus Package, the Democrats' most recent six-month gun ban scare when NOTHING was available locally or on the internet for months after the Newtown shooting.
I was feeling I overpaid on several recent 3rd Gen purchases -- until I weighed that against the grinding unpleasantness of NOT HAVING the the 3rd Gen pistol I needed. (Truth be told, I also picked up a good supply of high cap Glock mags -- along with three Glocks...I remembered, too clearly, what the 1994 Weapons ban was like -- and swore I wouldn't go through that again.)
When it comes to 3rd Gens, the smart money gets what you can -- while you can.
The sad fact is, for the general public, they're not making any more...
And one day, we're going to have an anti-gun Congress and an anti-gun President -- who will promptly put GunBroker and GunsAmerica out of business.
We need to see things clearly...
Smith 3rd Gens have long been ridiculously underpriced -- and we've been spoiled by the notion of $350 new, unfired 3rd Gens for much too long.
A 90 percent 4506 or 1006 for $650 to $800 is still a bargain -- when you compare them to anything else on the market.
Now the mad scramble is on to make sure we get our share to last us until our Last Gasp -- before they hit $1,000 to $1,200.
That sensation was especially acute following Obama's Gun Stimulus Package, the Democrats' most recent six-month gun ban scare when NOTHING was available locally or on the internet for months after the Newtown shooting.
I was feeling I overpaid on several recent 3rd Gen purchases -- until I weighed that against the grinding unpleasantness of NOT HAVING the the 3rd Gen pistol I needed. (Truth be told, I also picked up a good supply of high cap Glock mags -- along with three Glocks...I remembered, too clearly, what the 1994 Weapons ban was like -- and swore I wouldn't go through that again.)
When it comes to 3rd Gens, the smart money gets what you can -- while you can.
The sad fact is, for the general public, they're not making any more...
And one day, we're going to have an anti-gun Congress and an anti-gun President -- who will promptly put GunBroker and GunsAmerica out of business.
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Smithsrevenge
Member
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I'm happy as a clam when I find a 3rd gen for under $500......usually its beat beyond recognition but I still big em 
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TexasG
US Veteran
Nice - you've gotta love the lady. She bears a slight resemblance to my very accurate 908S ~
