IDPA

[dwever]

So I go to a competition near the Anniston Army Depot, and they tell me my Perf Ctr 627 with 5" barrel has too long a barrel by an inch. They were very nice, let me compete, but said it was unofficial. No worries. I totally understand (Plus the 5" model is a few ounces over the weight limit for SSR).

In November I'm going back with the same model revolver with the 2.625" barrel and legal weight (37 oz. on this 627). So I'm good for SSR or ESR with this gun right?

Ok, my big questions are:

1. Shouldn't I compete in SSR since my hardware is now legal? But if I use moon clips it's ESR right?

2. What's with the 6 round limit in the revolver? Does that mean if I am reloading with moons or a speed loader in my 8 shot, do I have to align the bullets and shut my cylinder just right so the first of six revolves in? Big time killer.

thanks for the help

 

[ScottJ]

I started out back in March with my 2.5" 66 in SSR.

As I understand it if you shoot moon clips it's ESR.

If your capacity is more than six then yes you have to leave holes empty. Talking to folks who have done it they don't bother to align they just click across the empty chambers.

 

[David Sinko]

Is your 2.625" barrel an original configuration or did you have one installed just to meet the barrel length requirement? If you had the barrel shortened or swapped to something that is non-standard it will not be legal. But nobody would care until you start beating lots of people.

You can shoot it in SSR if you use speedloaders and load to 105 PF. If you shoot it in ESR you will need to load to 165 PF (theoretically it's 165 PF out of a 4" barrel and the match director would need to provide the gun with the 4" barrel) and use the moonclips. As far as I know, you must load six in the gun and not eight. You'll lose a bit of time by having to align the cylinder properly for the first shot.

Some of these rules are really ridiculous, but you can be ridiculous too within the rule book, so to speak. In theory you could show up with your short barrel SSR gun and ammo that just barely makes the new lower 105 PF out of a 4" chrono gun. Since your barrel is shorter you will be allowed to legally shoot somewhat less than 105 PF and the match director MUST have all the steel calibrated to fall when struck by your bullet, which will be the weakest load at the match. Not that I would ever do such a thing...

Dave Sinko

 

[dwever]

Thanks Dave. To answer your question: no I did not have the gun fitted with a shorter barrel, I bought a second gun (any excuse will do) as the Performance Center offers the 627 in a number of configurations including the 2.625" barrel.

The American brand .38 ammo I shot packs enough punch for either classification , and I'm happy with it.

THANKS!

 

[OKFC05]

The American brand .38 ammo I shot packs enough punch for either classification

SSR only requires 105 PF,
but ESR requires 165. For a 158gr bullet, that translates to 1.044fps!
For 170gr, that's still 970fps!

No commercial .38 ammo will do that in a 4" revolver.
Sorry, the chrono man will catch that and DQ for failing to make ESR power in a sanctioned match.

I bought a second gun

Since you bought another gun just to shoot IDPA, why not a 686 SSR that, as its name implies, is specifically set up for IDPA/SSR, instead of buying something you already know is not suited to the game?

 

[dwever]

The right weapon for me:

SSR class then.

First, a consideration for my purchase was certainly IDPA, and I mentioned that given the sub-forum. However, my primary purpose is carry, and I want to compete with what I actually carry which is kind of the spirit of IDPA if I understand it correctly.

S&W's "SSR" moniker doesn't mean it's the right SSR weapon for me. Even with learning to click through empty chambers, the Performance Center 627 is still my choice.

I in fact checked out two 686 SSR's, the last getting a call from the owner at Shotgun Sports, Anniston, Alabama, at my request when they got one in. Surprisingly, like the first used one I saw at Gander Mountain, the action was not close to the Performance Center's, this was surprising since this weapon was designed for IDPA and should be tuned for the task, maybe S&W assumes a trigger job after purchase, the latter SSR you could actually feel grinding as it cycled. Hopefully not typical in either case.

The SSR frame was slightly too light and too small in my hands. I know from shooting other 686's that the K frame naturally being smaller gets more recoil than the N frame from similar loads. The N Frame doesn't hurt with .357 loads even with wood grips).

With the Perf Ctr 627 the action is smooth without further work (I can drill a 25 yard silhouette shooting twice per second in double action in moderate light), the weight and balance is right, the size is just right. I like the increased capacity and moon clips for carry, (particularly since I'm used to 15+1 + 2 spare 15 magazines when on duty with the mandatory Glock Model 22).

 

[haggis]

If you want to play with your gun as it's configured, you may want to try USPSA (United States Practical Shooting Association, the US affiliate of IPSC). Their Revolver division allows barrels greater than 4", and although you are limited to 6 shots, you can load 8 as long as you don't shoot more than 6 before reloading - no skipping chambers.

Plus, you can shoot your revolver in other divisions. The most appropriate division for 8-shot revos is Production, where you'll be shooting against 10-shot autos like Glocks and S&W M&P's. But you can use all 8 shots. If you can reload fast, you can be competitive since most stages have their targets in three or four target arrays, and you can reload on the move between shooting positions (unlike IDPA). You should use .38 Specials since all Production is scored Minor no matter which cartridge is used. Hot, hand-loaded .38 Short Colts will let you use shorter cartridges for faster reloads.

Another discipline that allows 8-shot revolvers is ICORE (International Confederation of Revolver Enthusiasts), but there are fewer ICORE clubs than USPSA clubs. ICORE is like USPSA but with IDPA-like scoring. Accuracy is more important than in either USPSA or IDPA.

Buck

 

[dwever]

Thanks Buck!

The closest ICORE to me seems to be Augusta, GA, which would be a bit far.

There's a USPSA group right here where I live that competes about thirty miles out of town. They have a match this Saturday, so I'll give their contact a shout.

THANKS!

 

[gr7070]

Clearly you're an N-frame guy. Get yourself a 4" Model 27. Check to make sure it makes weight and there are speedloaders for it.

 

[Palmetto Sharpshooter]

Ah...the rules again. I really do enjoy shooting IDPA more since I switched to a revolver. Unfortunately, it is set up for six shooters. K & L revolvers rule in SSR. For ESR, it's the 625 that rules.

This is my newest SSR:

 

[Murphy2000]

While against my better judgement,

I have strong feelings about 'IDPA GUNS'. If it's sole purpose is just that, for shooting in IDPA matches/competitions (more on this later), it shouldn't even be allowed on the range during an event.

I call it an 'event' as that what IDPA was meant to be, not a match or a competition. It seems it has turned into a 'game' the same as other well intended shooting events meant to hone ones personel skills.

There wasn't to be any 'MATCH WINNER'! Just high overall scores in each catagory. No trophys, no ribbons...just a lot of different scenarios to make one stop and think.

dwever, given time they will change the rules and 8 shot revolvers will be legal. I don't think they'll ever get past the 4" barrel length rule however. I find that rather odd as Skeeter Skeleton's favorite revolver was a 5" S&W Model 27. He carried that particular sixgun more than all the others. Seems his line of thnking was wrong according to the rule makers involved in IDPA.

In the very early beginnings of IDPA, I made it to all the IDPA events I could attend. I shot both my Model 19 and Colt 1911 that was slightly customized. I learned I am more likely to use less shots, hit faster and and overall do better with the Model 19 than the 1911. There were times I shot the 1911 better, but in the end I tallied it all up and the Model 19 was the winner by a hair.

Until the rules change, my thoughts are simple. If a person isn't shooting their every day carry gun at an IDPA event, they're cheating their self and nothing more.

Murphy2000

 

[7shooter]

I agree with Murphy. I enjoy shooting IDPA and don't really care about the difficult to understand reasons for some of their rules. I figure that adapting to some of the to me unnatural rules is good as it adds an element of stress and gets me to focus more on what is important to me ... acurate hits under some pressure. I've been shooting recently with a similarly inclined shooter who is using the Kahr PM9 he carries I might add with success. I like his thinking. I think we can get a lot out of IDPA by focusing on the real purpose of defensive shooting sports and letting ego ride.

 

[ScottJ]

Clearly you're an N-frame guy. Get yourself a 4" Model 27. Check to make sure it makes weight and there are speedloaders for it.

This. I shoot my 4" Highway Patrolman often. I use Safariland Comp I loaders. They're discontinued so I traded some .44 Comp Is to someone here for the .357 ones.

 

[M1911-66]

I shoot IDPA regularly -- about two matches per month for the last year. This past year, I've been shooting SSR using a 4" Model 66. I've since had the hammer bobbed, the chambers chamfered, and the action tuned. Yes, it is my game gun. I sometimes compete with a fullsize Wilson 1911.

I do have a 2.5" 66 that I will sometimes carry and my 4" 19 is at the gunsmith getting attention. Once the 19 is back, I will carry that on occasion.

My normal carry is a full-size Kimber 1911. The only significant differences between my Wilson game gun and my carry 1911 is the Wilson has a black front site, an adjustable rear sight and a mag well, where as the Kimber has a front night site, a black fixed rear sight, and no mag well.

IDPA is only as "gamey" as you want it to be. If you want to compete with a 2.5" K-frame out of an IWB holster, come on down. The short gun and IWB holster will slow you down, but we'll all welcome you and you'll get style points .

In the past year of shooting SSR, my revolver skills are greatly improved. I've still got a long ways to go, but my shots are faster and more accurate, my reloads are faster and more reliable, and my draws are faster and cleaner.

Yes, I'm using my game gun and a gamey, straight-drop, kydex holster. But I'm still far more competent with my carry revolver today than I was a year ago. YMMV.

 

[dwever]

In the End...

I look to eventually competing IDPA with all 8 rounds in the revolver. Last Saturday I attended a USPSA match in Arab, Alabama, and was able to use the 627 8 shot in the Production Division complete with moon clips. Good fun going up against the semi's

 

[gr7070]

I look to eventually competing IDPA with all 8 rounds in the revolver.

Maybe you are referring to a rule change in the unknown future, but unlike USPSA IDPA does not allow greater than 6 loaded. You either have to index the cylinder or pule the trigger on randomly ocurring blanks. Neither option is appealing, and I would think the blanks would be quite frustrating and flustering.

 

[M1911-66]

Maybe you are referring to a rule change in the unknown future, but unlike USPSA IDPA does not allow greater than 6 loaded. You either have to index the cylinder or pule the trigger on randomly ocurring blanks. Neither option is appealing, and I would think the blanks would be quite frustrating and flustering.

So just buy a 6-shot revolver instead. The skills running a 6-shot revolver well will transfer to the 8-shot revolver (and vice versa).

I truly don't understand why people whine about this. There are plenty of things in IDPA to whine about (can't start a reload in the open if you run dry, uneven application of cover, dumping shots illegal but people do it all the time, Glock OK in SSP but Springer XD must be in ESP, etc.), but whining because you can't use your 8-shot revolver? Goodness, gracious. Life is just way, way too short to get your panties in a twist over this when the solution is so simple.

 

[gr7070]

I'm not sure where you see any whining. I simply stated what the rules allow and that shooting an 8-shot in IDPA would be unappealing.

If directed at me your post is off base.

Personally, I have no desire to see 8-shot SSR guns in IDPA and am more than pleased to run my 686 every match.

 

[Jim Watson]

I see no chance of 8 shot revolvers being allowed in IDPA SSR where they would obsolete so many conventional sixshooters. If you want to shoot one, campaign HQ to let you use it versus the 1911 and other .45 autos in CDP. Major power factor ammo, of course.
I'd let you do it in club shoots here, just to see it happen.

 

[M1911-66]

I see no chance of 8 shot revolvers being allowed in IDPA SSR where they would obsolete so many conventional six-shooters.

I agree. One of the underlying principals of IDPA is to avoid equipment races. If 8-shot revolvers were allowed in SSR or ESR, they would have a significant advantage over 6-shot revolvers, and shooters would need to get an 8-shot revolver to be competitive.