If you build your own AR’s; some input please

[ColbyBruce]

I want an AR for hunting that is reasonably accurate and powerful out to 400 yards. I narrowed the choices down to either an Anderson AM15 6.5 Grendel at $565.00 or a Rock River Arms 6.8 spc for $802.00. I dislike mil-spec furniture and would replace it with MagPul, add a sling, spare magazine and a Larue trigger; so another $250.00 into either one. For $800.00 to $-1,000.00 I should be able to assemble an entire AR with above average parts. I just don't know which parts to buy. I am leaning toward a Wilson Combat 6.8 spc barrel and BCG. I don't believe I need a $500.00 receiver set. I don't like or need a rail, or a $150.00 CH, hand guards suit me fine. Lots of choices for receiver tubes and buffers/springs.

If anyone can enlighten me on parts choices I would certainly appreciate it.

 

[Sistema1927]

Why buy an AR with furniture if you are going to replace it?

Buy a lower, stripped or already built, the upper you want, either with or without barrel installed, and then "accessorize" it as desired. No need to have a box of parts that you don't want.

The AR is the Lego of firearms, build it like you want.

 

[Mike-AK]

Check out Aero Precision. The Geissele trigger is a better option than the LaRue, IMO.

M4E1 Threaded Receiver Set - Anodized Black | Aero Precision

 

[STORMINORMAN]

An AR10 .308 build would probably fill the bill for half the price and allow you a plethora of both factory ammo and reloading options...?

Just another option: you could probably get a fine scope for the difference as well?

Cheers!

 

[ColbyBruce]

AR-10 is larger and heavier than I care to use in the field.

 

[Wyo]

Aero Precision makes good parts as does BCM. They're more pricey, though. Bison Armory does really good barrels in various configurations. One other thing I might mention - I've not used the 6.5 Grendel but I have used the 6.8 SPC a lot on mule deer, whitetails, pigs, coyotes, etc. It's a great little cartridge but taking it out to 400 yards is really stretching it in a hunting application. I would not use it past 300 on medium sized game and, even then, would be a bit uncomfortable. IMHO.

 

[WCCPHD]

AR-10 is larger and heavier than I care to use in the field.

Get a POF Rogue. Its an AR10 built on an AR15 frame and weighs 5.9 pounds. I love mine. I have a 16 inch upper and a 12.5 inch SBR.

 

[LVSteve]

If you want power out to 400 yards in 6.5 Grendel, I think you need more barrel than 16". What about a PSA lightweight? Just a moment...

 

[STORMINORMAN]

If you want power out to 400 yards in 6.5 Grendel, I think you need more barrel than 16". What about a PSA lightweight? Just a moment...

Their complete 20" upper (with BCG, etc.) is only $399!

When you build your own you don't need to replace the furniture, either...

Cheers!

 

[tajada]

I'm glad to hear there are other grendel users. When I was first breaking it in and tuning the gas block. It seemed like it could do MOA. I was leaning over the hood on a windy day so that's why it's not a definite yes to MOA. I also want to note that my suppressor that I normally run is 18 OZ. I know its heavy but it was my first Form 1 suppressor and I was limited on tooling. But heavy can on 18" barrel is so much easier that a 24" barrel!

 

[TheTinMan]

An AR10 .308 build would probably fill the bill for half the price and allow you a plethora of both factory ammo and reloading options...?

Just another option: you could probably get a fine scope for the difference as well?

Cheers!

The OP says "NO" to a 308 AR. However, it is worth pointing out that 308 ARs are not the plug and play Legos you experience with AR-15s. Just to start with "mid-length gas tube" means different dimensions for different barrel manufacturers. There simply isn't one rigid standard everyone has to follow. Loosely there are the Armalite pattern and the DPMS pattern, but it gets more complicated with some parts. Buffer tubes, buffers, and springs can be all over the place and that affects function.

There is a 308 AR forum where you can learn loads if you want to go down that road.

 

[RCL-09]

I hunt with a Stag Arms 6.8 upper on my Rock River lower. I find 6.8 ammo relatively easy and seldom see 6.5 Grendel. If you go 6.8 make sure you get a SPEC II chambered 1/11" barrel for optimal performance from the cartridge.

 

[damienph]

Mine is an Aero Precision lower with an ALG trigger and a PSA 7.62x39 Upper and Boyds laminate furniture.

It is quite accurate and a good whitetail gun for east central Kansas.

 

[Racer X]

Mine is an Aero Precision lower with an ALG trigger and a PSA 7.62x39 Upper and Boyds laminate furniture.

It is quite accurate and a good whitetail gun for east central Kansas.

do you use 154 gr soft points?

 

[damienph]

do you use 154 gr soft points?

I have only used 123gr soft points. Usually Winchester Super X Power Point

 

[scooter123]

I have 3 home built AR's. Anderson lowers on all, picked up 4 at gun show for 28 dollars each. Yeah, it's been a while. All are equipped with Timney 3 lbs. drop in triggers.

Rifle # 1 is a 20 inch Precision Rifle with a Gibbz side charging upper mated to a Shilen heavy profile barrel with a Nikon scope. Shoots under 3/10 MOA from a good solid rest. Forearm is also a Gibbz Arms. Stock is a DPMS fixed A2 stock. Total cost with all the bells and whistles was north of 2 grand back around 2015.

Rifle # 3 is a 300 Blackout with a 16 inch Wilson Combat barrel. Lower is an Anderson with a Timney trigger. Forearm is a Gibbz handguard because I really like their mounting method. Upper is Anderson and I had to use a strip of 0.0015 shim stock to tighten up the upper to barrel fit. Tip here is to use the barrel you have chosen to find an upper that fits the barrel extension properly, cheap uppers have a lot of variation in this area. What you want to feel is a bit of drag and the deepest engagement with the joint bone dry. Note barrels that rattle wont be accurate, so this fit is critical. Stock is a Magpul ACS and I must say I really like this stock. Sights are mainly iron (Magpul) but I do have a 4X Weaver on a QD mount in the event I want to shoot with a scope. Cost in 2016 was about 1400 dollars.

Rifle #3 is 223 Wylde in a 16 inch Odin Works Medium profile barrel with a mid length gas system. Lower is Anderson with the 3 lbs. Timney trigger. Handguard is Gibbz and the stock is a Magpul ACS adjustable. Total cost for this rifle was roughly 1400 dollars.

Note, parts were acquired over about a 9 month period so while the totals were on the high side it was easy to squeeze the budget a bit so it wasn't painful.

In addition I quit smoking in January 2012 and that money went into my Fun Fund and 300 bucks a month extra does make things like this affordable. Hot tip here is that if you have a vice that causes you real harm such as smoking or vaping quitting is a wise thing to do. It will free up a lot of cash money that you are wasting on destroying your lungs. BTW, recent reports show that Pot is just as harmful as Tobacco so I must say I told you so to all those deniers who claimed Vaping or Pot is healthy.

 

[BillBro]

I agree completely about buying an AR that youre houng to take a bunch of stuff off and replace with other stuff, that you have to buy. Why do that? Just source the components and assemble iy yourself. Less waste.

Id definitely go with the 6.8spc. Great hunting bullet selection. Not just for that reason though but that applies directly to your intended use.

Do not buy a WC barrel, their gasports are always too small and youll get short stroking and ejection issues, plus their rifling is no bueno. Hands down, the best 6.8 barrels on the market are ARP, noe handled by Blackstone armory, the ARP Superbolt is also the top bolt choice. If you cant get a Superbolt get the LWRC bolt. In fact its probably a little better than the SB. I have both and really like the LWRC. Best barrel and bolts made, period. Its all about the chamber and the rifling and ARP is the top.
An upper is an upper and a lower is a lower. Aero Precision is fine though with a 6.8 or other non-5.56 chambering a little more strength and rigidity would not be a bad thing.
A midwest Industries Combat rail is just about one of my favorites, cheap, light, strong and priced great. Dint skimp on your trigger. If you are watching your budget Larue is absolutely fine, if not go with a Geissele (sp). I have a Larue single stage, but I have 7 Geissele triggers. Their SSS single stage has become a favorite of mine and for a hunting gun Id think thats what you would want.
Magpul makes my favorite grip, the K2+. Or you can go with a B5 p22 or 23.
Forward Controls Design makes some of the best vompinents Ive seen made in a long time. Small parts, main parts and everything in between, just good stuff.
If you build from scratch youll need all the little parts
Why not quality ones?

My best advice, dont get fancy. If its your first build stick with basics. No lightweight bcg's, standard buffers and springs to start. Speaking of springs, get Sprinco.
Really, build a solid basic gun and you should have no isdues.
Oh, have all the tools youll need, and supplies beforehand. Building an AR is not difficult. Put quality in, get quality out.
And visit the 6.8Forum.

 

[WR Moore]

The DIY approach has one major fault: Quality Control. You have to figure out which parts are good and assume that they meet all specifications and tolerances. Proper assembly means the use of specialized tools and gauges that'll be a one time expense that adds to the cost. Yeah, you can put it together without them, but it might not be right. Any and all problems are your problems.

OTOH, purchase from a known quality manufacturer gets you their QA/QC, a product fully assembled by skilled personnel with all the proper tools and a warranty. The modular construction does give you the option of buying a lower and upper assembly separately. I would be very picky about the source for either. My personal list of acceptable builders is rather short.

I saw a lot of Rock River products in the hands of governmental agencies while attending various classes. They all did very well and I wouldn't have bothered changing the triggers of any I tried.

 

[TheTinMan]

The DIY approach has one major fault: Quality Control. You have to figure out which parts are good and assume that they meet all specifications and tolerances. Proper assembly means the use of specialized tools and gauges that'll be a one time expense that adds to the cost. Yeah, you can put it together without them, but it might not be right. Any and all problems are your problems.

OTOH, purchase from a known quality manufacturer gets you their QA/QC, a product fully assembled by skilled personnel with all the proper tools and a warranty. The modular construction does give you the option of buying a lower and upper assembly separately. I would be very picky about the source for either. My personal list of acceptable builders is rather short.

I saw a lot of Rock River products in the hands of governmental agencies while attending various classes. They all did very well and I wouldn't have bothered changing the triggers of any I tried.

Good points about tools, etc. I have a couple of books (Zediker book are excellent), torque wrench, action rods, headspace gauges, and other tools/gauges. Do you absolutely have to have all of that? Probably not, we are talking about a firearm that you may need to depend on.

Windham Weaponry produces good quality ARs, both AR-15s and 308 ARs. I have one of each. It's the old Bushmaster factory and workmanship. Pricing isn't crazy IMHO.

 

[Paul in Nevada]

6.5 Grendel vs 6.8 SPC is going to depend a lot on how often you will be shooting at 300+ yards and how long of a barrel you want to tote around. A lot of the 6.5 published data you will see is taken from a 24" barrel while 6.8 is often tested with 16". If both barrels are 16-18", the 6.8 is going to have an energy advantage on the Grendel inside of 200 yards. After that, the Grendel walks away from the 6.8 no matter how long the barrels are thanks to it's higher BC bullets. At 400 yards the Grendel carries quite a bit more velocity and energy. The bullets usually have a higher SD as well meaning it will penetrate better at all ranges.
As for building vs buying, you can often get a good quality complete upper for cheaper than you could build one. That's not as much fun as building in my opinion but it's worth considering. Any money you save could go to your optic. Lowers are pretty much all the same. There's no reason (in my opinion) to spend a lot of money on the lower itself. Anderson is fine you you don't mind the unicorn rollmark. Anderson is sometimes called the "Poverty Pony" because of how cheap their stripped lowers are. I have several and they are fine. For a budget upper though I would look at Aero Precision. They have a 20" complete stainless Grendel upper for $500. That's a pretty good deal if you add up all the parts. 20" for a Grendel might be as short as you want to go. They don't make an SPC. Another poorly kept secret of the AR world is Bear Creek. Their barrels are better than you would expect at the price.

 

[Hair Trigger]

I want an AR for hunting that is reasonably accurate and powerful out to 400 yards. I narrowed the choices down to either an Anderson AM15 6.5 Grendel at $565.00 or a Rock River Arms 6.8 spc for $802.00. I dislike mil-spec furniture and would replace it with MagPul, add a sling, spare magazine and a Larue trigger; so another $250.00 into either one. For $800.00 to $-1,000.00 I should be able to assemble an entire AR with above average parts. I just don't know which parts to buy. I am leaning toward a Wilson Combat 6.8 spc barrel and BCG. I don't believe I need a $500.00 receiver set. I don't like or need a rail, or a $150.00 CH, hand guards suit me fine. Lots of choices for receiver tubes and buffers/springs.

If anyone can enlighten me on parts choices I would certainly appreciate it.

If you're going to start ripping stuff of to replace it with something more "you", just buy the parts and build it yourself.

I've built two uppers and use a common lower, and they suit what I want just fine. A Grendel is effective way past 400 yards, as a long range cartridge it's good to at least 1000 yards, and would have ample energy for white tail deer at least to 800 yards. According to my ballistics chart for my loads, 6.5G has about the same energy at 1100 yards as a 40S&W has at the muzzle. If you're not interested in more than 400, the 6.8 should fit the bill nicely. I built a 300 BLK to use for CQB matches and mid-range target shooting, it is accurate as hell out to 300. My Grendel is good to 1125, about when it goes subsonic with a 123 grain match bullet. Not quite the legs of a 6.5 Creedmoor, but it's a smaller overall package and cheaper to load for. TRhe common lower has a Geissele High Speed National Match DMR trigger, about 2 pounds on the 2nd stage pull.

If you stay with milspec parts, you can mix and match brands and not worry about something not fitting. I used Mega (now ZEV) upper and lower receivers. I used a Geissele trigger group and their handguard/rails for both rifles. The Grendel is a 20" Odinworks barrel and bolt, matched for the backspacing. I used a 16" Ranier Match barrel for the Blackout, and Magpul ACS stock. There's a mix of Wilson Combat and Spikes Tactical and Precision Arms parts depending on which upper setup.

Are you including a scope in your stated budget or shooting with iron sights for a while? Spend at least 2/3 the total cost of the rifle on a good scope and mount.
Grendel on the left, Blackout on the right:

 

[WR Moore]

Good points about tools, etc. I have a couple of books (Zediker book are excellent), torque wrench, action rods, headspace gauges, and other tools/gauges. Do you absolutely have to have all of that? Probably not, we are talking about a firearm that you may need to depend on.

I've got my own issues with finger/brain faults on the keyboard, but I think there's something wrong with that last sentence. Possibly an "unless" after the comma?

 

[ColbyBruce]

This is the first AR I built. The barrel had the FH/barrel nut/FSB/hand guard retainer on it, as it was a new take-off. The gun works fine. I can put an AR together and prefer to do my next one.

AR Performance barrels have been suggested to me but most models are out of stock. There are a lot of complaints of poor QC with Aero products lately; however, I just purchased a slick FDE upper and it fits my Skyjacker Defense lower perfectly. The color is nearly identical too.

I have a few loose optics to use .

 

[LVSteve]

I've got my own issues with finger/brain faults on the keyboard...

LOL!! Get in line.

 

[BillBro]

The DIY approach has one major fault: Quality Control. You have to figure out which parts are good and assume that they meet all specifications and tolerances. Proper assembly means the use of specialized tools and gauges that'll be a one time expense that adds to the cost. Yeah, you can put it together without them, but it might not be right. Any and all problems are your problems.

OTOH, purchase from a known quality manufacturer gets you their QA/QC, a product fully assembled by skilled personnel with all the proper tools and a warranty. The modular construction does give you the option of buying a lower and upper assembly separately. I would be very picky about the source for either. My personal list of acceptable builders is rather short.

I saw a lot of Rock River products in the hands of governmental agencies while attending various classes. They all did very well and I wouldn't have bothered changing the triggers of any I tried.

I have to disagree here. The benefit with building your own IS quality Control. You control the quality by your own research. With some reading and questions and heeding advice of guys dedicated to this caliber, 6.8SPC (6.8Forum) you will not go wrong and end up with a far superior rifle than one bought unless your willing to spend far more than your current stated budget and I speak from experience x2.

Tell you what, google Harrison Beene and start therr if you want a 6.8. He is a pompous man, again I speak from experience but he knows more about and has done more for the development of the 6.8spc than probably anyone else. The 6.8forum was basically his domain for a few decades. ARPerformance is his company and are without question the very best in 6.8 barrels and bolts ever, and again from multiple experiences and I am far from the only one who would tell you this. His chamber designs, rifling types and twist rates are as good as you will buy.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

Do you reload? If not then factory ammo availability might be a consideration. I built a Seekins ar with a 300 blkout wilson barrel and while I liked the build did not like the caliber and the aggravation building brass. I eventually sold the blkout parts and moved my Taccom .22 bcg /barrel into it. Love it. I would suggest you start with a nice upgraded upper/lower like a Seekins or Sharps Bros. They are very well made and thought out ARs, no silly split pins to deal with. The 6.5 is all the rage. But my 6.5 is a Swede.

 

[WR Moore]

I have to disagree here. The benefit with building your own IS quality Control. You control the quality by your own research.

At one time I worked as a production machinist and later as a prototype machinist. That's not QC, that's betting on the other guy's QC.

Let me tell a story related to your approach. Almost 50 years ago I toured a world famous gun barrel making plant. Their QA/QC was impressive, starting with taking samples for each and every steel bar for testing to make sure the delivered product was the correct specification steel. The process continued through interim inspections between production steps and a final inspection.

While in the rifling area, one of the things they showed me was the specially dimensioned rifling button used to make the blanks for a famous firm who "made" 1911 barrels. No idea if they actually did the finish machining or farmed it out.

Some years later I bought one of the famous name barrels. While performing a brief receipt inspection I discovered that instead of 6 lands & grooves, there were only 3. All on one side of the ID. Contact with the famous name produced a response of: "That's impossible!" followed by a hang up. Fortunately, I purchased the barrel through Brownells and they exchanged it without question.

Now, that was a REALLY obvious reason for rejection, but somehow, it made it out the door for sale. Since you lack the specs and gauges, you really can't make an actual receipt inspection of the parts you buy. While the famous name barrels seem to work, one wonders just how close they are to actual blue print specs that we can't check.

I've also received parts from at least one major gun maker with visible dimensional defects. With one exception, they replaced the part. That one stunned me by stating they couldn't, at that time, be sure they could find a better replacement. They also seem to keep chamber reamers in service longer than they should-dull reamers cut oversize chambers.

Bear in mind that no AR/clone "manufacturer" makes all the parts. When parts are made they're inspected on a interval. 1 in 10, 1 in 100, 1 in 1000. Rarely, each and every part is inspected. [I got many of those plus or minus 0.001 in. jobs.] The question is what happens to the rejects? They should get sold for scrap. However, ya gotta keep the doors open and the business in the black. Then the plant-or the scrap dealer- may sort the rejects and find the ones that are out of spec, but "close enough to work" and sell them. Obviously someone else who needs to keep their plant open is gonna buy them.

Do what you want but don't consider what you're doing actual QA/QC without the proper tools and specs.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

A visit to The School of the American Rifle's videos might also be a worthwhile sojourn...?

It has certainly changed my thinking in regards to what REALLY matters: the #1 consideration being DOES IT ACTUALLY WORK RELIABLY?

Both the concept of tolerance stacking and his easy differentiation between something being "in (or "out of") spec" vs. a "failure" is enlightening, IMHO.

Cheers!

 

[Paul in Nevada]

...Since you lack the specs and gauges, you really can't make an actual receipt inspection of the parts you buy...

But that logic applies to a fully assembled rifle as well.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Lacking the "specs and gauges" to make "the actual receipt inspection" of virtually anything one might purchase...

Reminds me of Vernon L. Pinkley's comment in The Dirty Dozen: "Very pretty, Colonel. Very pretty. But, can they fight?"

Does it work, RELIABLY?

Cheers!