If you have to ask whether something is dead/gone, then it probably isn't...

Echo40

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Since the year 2016 the question has been raised on a regular basis regarding the .40 S&W cartridge. Seriously, just Google Search "Is .40 S&W dead?" and see for yourself. Folks just keep on asking the question over and over again but the answer depends on who you ask. Regardless, much like Caliber Debates and Bear Defense, it's a subject that never reaches any definitive conclusion, so people just keep right on asking.

I have a better question though, why are so many folks so convinced that it is going to die? Plenty of cartridges have come and gone in the field of Law Enforcement without dying. In addition, cartridges which went in and out of service in a short window of time have withstood the test of time regardless. A prime example would be the .45 Long Colt, it was really only in use for maybe a decade tops before it got phased out as both a Military and Law Enforcement cartridge, yet well over a century later, despite it being eclipsed both in terms of power and versatility, despite the fact that Revolvers have long since been phased out in both Military and Law Enforcement, despite that there are only a few firearms chambered in .45LC left in current production, it remains a popular cartridge with a legendary reputation.

So what makes the supposedly forthcoming demise of .40 S&W such a persistently hot topic?
Perhaps it's because a lot of folks just plain hate the cartridge. It certainly seems that way sometimes, with folks often getting short-tempered at the mere mention of it, sometimes even going so far as to preemptively post counter-arguments to statements that nobody has even made yet.

The cartridge has most certainly declined sharply in popularity, as evidenced by the fact that many mainstream firearms manufacturers have completely dropped support for it by discontinuing firearms chambered in the cartridge. In fact, that's pretty much how I got into .40 S&W in the first place, because the market had become so flooded with .40cal police trade-ins and clearance sales on discontinued models that just weren't selling. I went from owning zero to three .40cal pistols in the span of two years because they were just so cheap. Just last month I purchased a Smith & Wesson Performance Center M&P40 Shield 1.0 brand new in box for a mere $350, so even now with all the shortages, inflated prices, and panic-buying, there are still outstanding deals to be had on .40cal pistols, simply because there are so many of them on the market, yet so little demand for them.
Nevertheless, I'm skeptical that the cartridge is "dying" it's definitely in a slump, perhaps even one it may never come out of, but I'm unconvinced that it will fade away completely. I think that at the very least, firearms chambered in .40 S&W will continue to be produced by Smith & Wesson, with the cartridge finding a niche audience as the alternative to the ever-popular 9mm Luger and .45 ACP. I also think there's a possibility that it might make something of a comeback in the event that certain gun control legislation passes in the years to come which places restrictions on magazine capacity, but that'll all merely assumption on my part.

Regardless, I find the persistency of the question "Is .40 S&W dead?" to be ridiculous at this point. It has been what, five years since the cartridge fell out of favor and was largely replaced within the field of Law Enforcement? So I imagine that if that cartridge was going to die completely, as in cease to be profitable enough to merit the continued production of .40cal pistols, then it would have happened already. Meanwhile, Smith & Wesson continues to produce both the M&P and SD in .40 S&W and Glock just recently released the new Gen 5 Glock 22 and 23 in .40 S&W, which isn't something they would do if there was no longer money to be made there.
 
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It will stay around. There are too many guns out there for it to go away. It will fade but slowly over the next several decades. And who knows?

Obsolescent cartridges can make comebacks.

The 10mm almost died at birth; look at it now. It's more popular than ever.

The .38 Super is still alive and has found a niche in certain competition.

The .44 spl has gone in full size guns, but has found new life in smaller five shot defensive revolvers.

No, in 2060 there will still be plenty of action in .40.
 
A lot of it has to do with Sayre's law which states "In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake.". Or the "Competition in academia is so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small." quote commonly attributed to Kissinger although there an ironically vicious debate about whether or not he really said that.

I think 9mm is a better choice than 40 for most applications but don't think 40 is a bad choice. Given the number of existing guns its not going away.
 
Gun people are fanatics about so many things that they like and dislike and believe others should toe the line. Usually they have no real experience but merely parrot what they read in gun magazines or on the internet. Handgun calibers are a great example. First we have 9mm and 45 acp. Small and fast or big and slow? Then we have the “magnum” crowd. Nothing is better then anything with “magnum” attached to the name. Now we have the newest and most up to date FBI caliber and ammo tests. These guys go from 38 to 357 to 40 to 10mm and now 9mm... So what changed? Preferred calibers trend from what the “small framed and weak” can handle to what it takes to down a suspect with one shot. So few individuals hunt with a handgun and even fewer are ever placed in a life or death situation where they will actually use their handgun in defense - that other then proper bullet placement, the caliber rarely matters and poor placement (or a miss) due to whatever factors mean nothing on anybody’s chart. We also tend to forget that once a bullet enters and exits the intended target, it’s job is done. Heaven forbid that one of these macho rounds continues on it’s way potentially creating harm to an innocent person. The question will continue to be asked and the answers will continue to vary. Fun stuff to consider while we all sit around bored and scared of a virus that no caliber can extinguish.
 
All I can say is that the .40 S&W is dead to me. Tried it, didn't like it, will never own another. :rolleyes:
It does seem that the .40's light is fading, but I doubt it'll go out any time soon. Believe it or not, some people actually like the damned thing. :confused:
 
BELIEVE NOTHING YOU READ AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE.

You sure typed a long post. The forty isn't going anywhere. Just because LE or military change calibers means nothing.......$$$$ influences the change. You can still buy 25-20/32-20/30-30/45-70 and more calibers that date from the last century..........Feel better now?
 
On the bright side, it has LESS recoil than it;s big brother, the 10mm.

It usually can hold more rounds in it's magazine than the 45 ACP.

IF you can handle this round, it will pass the FBI test with flying colors.

My brother told me that when he was with the Calif. Highway Patol, they jumped on the band wagon, big time, for this to be their "New weapon" of choice.

For my home SD, I prefer a 9mm with 19 rounds, if I need them.
 
So Forte Smitten Wesson,
You are saying the 40S&W is not DEAD ? ? ?

Just kidding.

While I have never been on the 40S&W bandwagon, I do not have grudges toward those that like it. Already being a 10MM Auto user, I never saw an advantage for me

I do not think anything dies. Most of what I use and carry has been proclaimed dead at least once

You will often find me carrying a Titanium snubby loaded with 45 Long Colt. . . . but that cartridge is only 148 years old and is a multi-dead award winner

450%20bullets.jpg


I also carry J-frames chambered in 356TSW as my backup and sometimes primary firearms

pocket-rocket3s.jpg


When it comes to 357SIG, 9x23 Winchester, 41 Magnum, 10MM Auto and 10MM Magnum, I am a fan.

I even love the not-dead or would that be undead :) cartridges like the 22LR, 357 Magnum and 45 ACP

I am not sure why we have so many "Is it Dead Yet" threads. Perhaps it is just the OP looking for like minded folks
 
it is the Indian not the arrow..
shoot what you shoot best
I was a diehard "the 40s&w is an answer to a question nobody asked" for a long time.. I have 9mm & 45ACP... what would I need a 40s&w for... then got one cheap... now have several... it won't disappear as a caliber.. too many exist and they still make them... just another color on the palette of ammo to play with...
 
There's really no analog, but it's kind of a .41 Magnum of the auto world. The ballistics are pretty much that of the original .41 Police load. So, instead of standing on its own merits, it's become a round that lovers of other cartridges compare against. 9mm guys say the .40 gives no ballistic advantage and a couple fewer rounds in the mag. .45 guys play the diameter game. .357SIG fans say it's all the energy of the .40 with less recoil. And yes, 10mm guys chuckle and say, "You mean Forty Short and Weak."

I just built a .40 gun and think it's the bee's knees. 180gr suppressed is a *****cat. Granted it's a G35 with a big can hanging off the end to tamp recoil. I've shot a G27 and didn't particularly care for it. There are way too many .40s out there for the ammo to disappear, but we're already seeing the aftermarket parts for common platforms (Glock, 1911, SIG, etc) dry up. I had to go gray market for a threaded barrel and slide since there are very few companies making anything but 9mm stuff for Glock builds.
 
Most folks compare .40 S&W to the 10mm Auto since that's what it's believed to be a descendant of, although interestingly enough it's actually the other way around because .40 S&W actually traces its ancestry back to the 1960s to an experimental prototype competition cartridge called the .40 G&A which the 10mm Auto actually descended from, but I digress...The .40 S&W basically for all intents and purposes 10mm Short, and amusingly enough most commercially loaded 10mm ammo is the 10mm FBI load (180gr @ 1000fps) which is just .40 S&W in a longer case, so it's just about the fairest comparison that there is.
 
Although I currently primarily carry a 9mm, I carried a .40 for several years both on and off duty up until my retirement. It's not dead, it's just not he current latest and greatest. It seems that whatever caliber the three letter agencies are using then local and state agencies tend to migrate to that caliber.

I actually like the .40 and own several pistols chambered in .40 and would not hesitate for a minute to carry it again. Ballistics continue to evolve and there may be less of a gap between caliber effectiveness but I feel that the .40 will continue to be around for a long time to come.
 
it is the Indian not the arrow..
shoot what you shoot best
I was a diehard "the 40s&w is an answer to a question nobody asked" for a long time.. I have 9mm & 45ACP... what would I need a 40s&w for... then got one cheap... now have several... it won't disappear as a caliber.. too many exist and they still make them... just another color on the palette of ammo to play with...

Same here. Back in the.40 caliber rage times I would never think of buying a pistol in that caliber and bother keeping another caliber in stock. And paying top dollar for the pistol and ammo. Nope

Until I bought a 4006TSW CHP pistol for cheap and loved it.

I added a 4043 (again on the cheap) and have a 4056TSW inbound.

So if you told me in 2001 that I'd own 3 3rd Generation .40 caliber pistols I'd have laughed at you.

Times change.

Edit - since this thread was dug up, I sold the 4056TSW and added a 4013TSW as well as a 4046 New Old Stock.

Go figure.
 
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Addendum - I'm not worried about .40 S&W becoming unavailable. If I owned rifles chambered in any Winchester Short Magnum (WSM) or Winchester Super Short Magnum (WSSM) I'd be concerned. Another group of wonder calibers that didn't take off.

And the Glock .45 GAP. The Pennsylvania State Police adopted that dog of a cartridge in the Devil's handgun.

And then went to SIG's in good ol' 45 ACP.

So again, I think .40 S&W will be around much longer than the aforementioned calibers.

Except .45ACP. That cartridge is eternal.
 
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The "is it dead" storyline is created by gun writers and bloggers trying to drive readership and website traffic, much like cartridge comparison articles. Few use facts and fewer make sense.

Few cartridges actually die. In today's computer manufacturing world it is easy to set up for smaller ammo runs. It just gets pricier. The only recent death that I can think of is the .41 Action Express - but it didn't actually take off.
 
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