JJEH
Member
Okay, point taken. But this was for military purposes. You can't force (untrained) civilians to carry a firearm.
The law should say that you can carry anytime and anywhere if you wish to!
The rest is up to the people.
In light of the French terrorist attack......
- Thread starter BudMan5
- Start date
Okay, point taken. But this was for military purposes. You can't force (untrained) civilians to carry a firearm.
The law should say that you can carry anytime and anywhere if you wish to!
The rest is up to the people.
Waywatcher
Member
This is false. I suggest you educate yourself about gun ownership in France.
Again, my initial point was to spur conversation.
We need to get everyone in this country talking about the fact that gun free zones are, in fact, target rich environments for terrorists or criminals.
Read back through all the posts here and you will realize what i was was (or am) trying to do. The arguments all made here can easily become talking points in any conversation that any of us have with gun control supporters
YeshuaIsa53
Member
Be sober, be vigilant...
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85V65Sabre
Member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2014
- Messages
- 654
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I do understand what you are saying, and, of course, it is correct. However, it is not, IMO, significant. People all around the world are saying "offensive" things. I even occasionally hear some of them. Usually there is no point in my saying or posting anything about that. Occasionally there is.It's offensive to me...how's that?Telling people what they MUST do is every bit as offensive as telling them what they CANNOT do.
If I somehow missed your point, please explain!!!!!!
The OP is just as entitled to express himself as anyone else. To me, what he said was not offensive, mainly because he had no intention whatsoever of forcing anyone to do anything. He merely said something. I wish I could say the same about the hoplophobes and other mental misfits he was implicitly criticizing. I believe that your anger is better directed towards those people than towards the OP.
Certainly, the OP can write just about anything he wants herein. I have zero issues with that. Perhaps I misunderstood his post (yours, too) but I shudder to think what would happen if anyone told my 90 year old Mom she had to carry a gun. 
Or what would happen in East St. Louis (to pick a notorious locale) if everyone had to be armed. 
I personally know people who I would avoid like the plague if they carried a gun. That is an absolute.
My point is we Americans have a great deal of freedom...particularly freedom to make real life decisions based on personal beliefs, background, education, social upbringing, etc. Some of us choose to carry a gun...some do not. Both decisions are cool. But no one should be forced to do something as important as carrying a gun.
Hope this helps explain my thoughts. And I am good with you and the OP. No hard feelings.
Be safe.
Or what would happen in East St. Louis (to pick a notorious locale) if everyone had to be armed. I personally know people who I would avoid like the plague if they carried a gun. That is an absolute.
My point is we Americans have a great deal of freedom...particularly freedom to make real life decisions based on personal beliefs, background, education, social upbringing, etc. Some of us choose to carry a gun...some do not. Both decisions are cool. But no one should be forced to do something as important as carrying a gun.
Hope this helps explain my thoughts. And I am good with you and the OP. No hard feelings.
Be safe.
captainjohnsofd
Member
The bottom line is to be prepared. I have a fire extinguisher but hope I never need it. To be forewarned is to be forearmed. We have been warned multiple times. The time to prepare is now before the balloon goes up.
Model29Lover
US Veteran
Those terrorists were mistaken for France Special Task Force guys, because of their equipment and high-speed tactics. They are more than just thugs. They have a large bank roll, and their training is comparable to military. I am not saying armed civilians do not have a chance, but when terrorists have the element of suprise on their side and they are more than just thugs, the odds are not in the civilians favor. We need to stay "in the red, or at least the yellow" or tactically aware, or whatever people want to call it!
SJshooter
Member
I know dozens of people that I don't want carrying. Too dumb, too unsafe, too reckless... you name it. Mandatory? No way.
I carry all the time, even in my house. Sadly, I'm not sure this situation would have been any better if every cartoonist at the magazine was carrying. When a coordinated attack has the element of surprise and a vast firepower advantage, I'm not sure anyone would have even had a chance to draw.
I carry all the time, even in my house. Sadly, I'm not sure this situation would have been any better if every cartoonist at the magazine was carrying. When a coordinated attack has the element of surprise and a vast firepower advantage, I'm not sure anyone would have even had a chance to draw.
Capt.Jim
Member
Agreed! Mandatory carry will be a no-no.. But easing the rules to obtain CCW will be the right thing to do!
As for the other issue; I bet it would've made a difference if at least 4-5 people were carrying in that office.
I don't mean two crazy guys with AKs can't do any harm but I am sure they can't easily kill 12 and seriously injure 10 or more people.
If I am working at an office where my business is attacked before, and under constant dead threats, as soon as I hear shots at the entrance of the building I'll draw and barricade myself while waiting whoever is shooting to enter the building.
Remember these guys didn't sneak in that office quietly. They shot the guard outside of the building in order to get in. There was a big commotion before they entered that office.
Also, there is a discouraging effect of the guns which is mostly forgotten to mention.
If two terrorists knew most people inside that office carrying a gun, they may think twice to enter the building.
But, let's say they were crazy and ignored the risk and entered the building.
As soon as they entered the building if bullets were flying towards their way from 4-5 different directions I am sure it was going to be very hard for them to move around comfortably, advance, concentrate, aim and shoot their victims like sitting ducks.
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mc5aw
Member
If every man, woman, and child was armed, it would not stop terrorist attacks. The terrorists of today are fanatics bent on causing death and destruction, will no regard for their own lives.
Three motivated terrorists with automatic weapons are not going to be deterred by a populace carrying sidearms. And I'm not going to end up on the winning side of that gun battle with a J frame and two speed strips.
Think back to the North Hollywood shoot out. Two heavily armed and determined BGs fared rather well against an entire police force. Would they have done worse if everyone in the bank and on the street was a CCW holder?
Three motivated terrorists with automatic weapons are not going to be deterred by a populace carrying sidearms. And I'm not going to end up on the winning side of that gun battle with a J frame and two speed strips.
Think back to the North Hollywood shoot out. Two heavily armed and determined BGs fared rather well against an entire police force. Would they have done worse if everyone in the bank and on the street was a CCW holder?
fredj338
Member
I don't see it to way, thugs with litte training & BC masks. I saw a lo. Lw spee high drag going on in. Vido, but mayb w hav diff views of taking.
fredj338
Member
Lapd were woefully untrained for such a gunfight & have since revised their training & weapons. Yeah, j-frame & 10rds, I would probably hide or run too. Still, many ccw holders have more skill than the avg line officer. I would rather have the option than waiting on LE to figure out what to do next.
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actually I did.
While the French are allowed to own some guns, they are not allowed to carry any of them. In my OP, I referred to "concealed, "open" and "mandated" all describing types of carry.
With very few exceptions, no one other than the police are allowed to carry in France and only some police, not all.
Here's French law so that you may possibly be able to educate yourself:
Article 58-1:
The Minister of Interior may authorise by order, any individual exposed to exceptional risks of harm to his/her life, upon his/her request, to carry and transport a handgun of a category and with certain characteristics, and within the limits set in the first paragraph of I of Article 35,1 the corresponding ammunition.
The authorisation, issued for a period of time not exceeding one year, is renewable. It may be withdrawn at any time.
The Prefect of the district of the place of residence of the holder of this authorisation to carry firearms issues, upon presentation of a health certificate referred to in 1- of Article 39,2 the authorisation to purchase and to possess, for the same period of time, the handgun and, within the limits set in the first paragraph of I of Article 35,1 the corresponding ammunition. In case of withdrawal or of non-renewal of the authorisation to carry firearms, the authorisation to purchase and to possess firearms becomes null and void. Its holder must surrender the firearm and ammunition under conditions defined in Article 70.3
So, it's definitely not "shall issue" and it's just barely "may issue" and only under extreme circumstances. There are less than 3,000,000 firearms in France a country of 65 million.
fredj338
Member
While previously over stated, there is no ccw in euro countries by civ, even private ownership in most countries is severely restricted. One reason certain violent crime rates are higher there than here. Ccw does reduce crime, just look at the stats here in various states. It's not coincidence that shall carry states have less total violent crime rates than non carry states. Responsible ccw makes everyone safer. When such terrorist acts come here, & they will, it will be in a gun restrictive city/state like NY, Chicago or LA, not Dallas or Atlanta, etc. gun free zones are an invite for anyone wanting to commit mayhem & get away with it, even if jst initially.
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Having everyone armed is disconcerting. I was surprised to see how many French police armed with "Mini-14's"(?) had their finger on the trigger while walking around and standing around. An unrelated, yet more disturbing poll is that over a quarter of the French population between the ages of 18-24 are sympathetic to ISIS.
kakarote9130
Member
France
Unfortunately our government and the liberal media loves what other countries do. Especially european countries and the Chinese with no gun laws.
Then throw in the NWO idiots,and the possibilities are endless.
With that said, we must back and help the french people. After all, they did save our bacon during the revolutionary war. They like us, are a good people,it's their liberal government that caused the problem by removing their ability to protect themselves.
(WOW, that almost sounds like here in America)
Unfortunately our government and the liberal media loves what other countries do. Especially european countries and the Chinese with no gun laws.
Then throw in the NWO idiots,and the possibilities are endless.
With that said, we must back and help the french people. After all, they did save our bacon during the revolutionary war. They like us, are a good people,it's their liberal government that caused the problem by removing their ability to protect themselves.
(WOW, that almost sounds like here in America)
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mc5aw
Member
Go for a drive on an average day, and count the number of other drivers you encounter who operate their vehicles in an unsafe manner, be it speeding, swerving, etc. Now ask yourself if you want these same unsafe drivers carrying firearms.
