In light of the French terrorist attack......

I read earlier this evening (coincidence huh?)the INTERPOL crime rates for Europe vs The United States. It went back as far as 2006 and stated ( along with showing the stats) that because of Americans second amendment right and our ability to personal carry, our overall crime rate in most areas have dropped sharply in the past 2 decades.( even though you'd never know it by the liberal media)
We have 4.8 times the population of France, yet they have 2 times the crime rate we do. Both violent and non violent, based on crimes per. 100,000 people. Also in France,their crime is based on convictions, not all crimes reported, like we do.
 
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BudMan5 & fredj338:

If you define being 'disarmed' as being unlawful to carry a gun on your person, then most American gun owners fit your definition of being "disarmed," which is obviously an invalid logical conclusion by any stretch.
 
They announced on Facebook that France would be attacked next.

Why do we give terrorists a Facebook account? I thought Facebook suspends accounts all the time for minor little politically incorrect infractions. So, why do they let murderers not only have an account, but use it to terrorize whole countries?
 
Waywatcher said:
BudMan5 & fredj338:

If you define being 'disarmed' as being unlawful to carry a gun on your person, then most American gun owners fit your definition of being "disarmed," which is obviously an invalid logical conclusion by any stretch.
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I am sorry but again, what do you base this on?

Concealed carry and constitutional carry has doubled and re-doubled all over America including in your own State. While the 'blue' States like NY, NJ, CA and CT have cracked down on gun ownership and carry, other States have made it infinitely more easy including your own State of Wisconsin.

Just a guess here, I suspect you count yourself among the folks that oppose Governor Walker, right?

Here's a Washington Post article to confirms what I say:

Growth chart of right to carry - The Washington Post

Please note that every time you make one of your statements, I rebut and provide information to support my statement. Yet, you keep making these baseless claims and are not able to provide any citations to support your statements.
 
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I respectfully disagree, as with Freedom of speech,religion, right of peaceful assembly and a host of other things, Mr. Madison and Mr. Jefferson would be appalled at anything mandated by government decree.
 
Waywatcher said:
BudMan5 & fredj338:

If you define being 'disarmed' as being unlawful to carry a gun on your person, then most American gun owners fit your definition of being "disarmed," which is obviously an invalid logical conclusion by any stretch.
Click to expand...

A gun in my home or car does little good if I am attacked in a public place. So yes, in affect the population becomes unarmed.
While I am a fan of shall carry, I do think mandatory training is required for all. Leo have to qualify to carry, many of them are barely functional. I feel civ should be able to pass the Same test.
 
To the layman, every military style rifle is automatic, and every black vest is bulletproof. In the video of the assailants, I heard nothing but single round fire. I would expect vertical stringing, not a tight group in a windshield. For that matter, I would expect much better from a trained rifleman.

You don't need to arm everyone, just those with a clean background, training and a continuing interest, and to lift the artificial bans on when and where carry is permitted. 4% of the population seems to be the equilibrium point. That is probably deterrent enough.

How many people do you suppose carry in Colorado theaters now? Posting there does not carry the force of law. Holmes would likely face at least 8 armed citizens this time around. Nobody would be texting or throwing hot popcorn either.

How many attacks with axes and machetes would we see on Chicago trains and buses, given common sense carry
laws?
 
fredj338 said:
While I am a fan of shall carry, I do think mandatory training is required for all. Leo have to qualify to carry, many of them are barely functional. I feel civ should be able to pass the Same test.
Click to expand...
I couldn't disagree more. The second amendment guarantees our right to bear arms. Rights do not come with mandatory training requirements.

I understand the sentiment, but it flies in the very face of the entire concept of the US Constitution; government being subject to the people.

Here's my thoughts on training and the second amendment...
There should never be a government mandated training required to own or carry a gun. However, anyone that really wants to be effective with their gun will seek training.

Further, I am a firearms instructor. I can tell you that any one day, or half day, course on gun safety, use or just plain ownership, is marginal to useless. On going training and practice is the only way to become proficient with any firearm.

Yes, there will be stupid people with guns. Yes, people will be injured/killed by these stupid people. This is sometimes the price you pay to have freedom for the whole nation.
 
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Neumann said:
Nobody would be texting or throwing hot popcorn either.
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This is irresponsible. You imply that people should fear vigilante ccw for social bad behavior?? All it takes is one douche to pull a gun on someone texting in a theater to ruin it for the level headed group that would like to carry to prevent previous tragedy. Carry implies responsibility. Try & promote that.
 
Rastoff said:
I couldn't disagree more. The second amendment guarantees our right to bear arms. Rights do not come with mandatory training requirements.

I understand the sentiment, but it flies in the very face of the entire concept of the US Constitution; government being subject to the people.

Here's my thoughts on training and the second amendment...
There should never be a government mandated training required to own or carry a gun. However, anyone that really wants to be effective with their gun will seek training.

Further, I am a firearms instructor. I can tell you that any one day, or half day, course on gun safety, use or just plain ownership, is marginal to useless. On going training and practice is the only way to become proficient with any firearm.

Yes, there will be stupid people with guns. Yes, people will be injured/killed by these stupid people. This is sometimes the price you pay to have freedom for the whole nation.
Click to expand...

I understand all the 2a idiologues, but reality is that there are a lot of idiots out there. I don't really want them carrying a gun around me in public. We have free speech, but you can't incite a riot. We have other rights that are subject to oversite. I feel carrying a gun in public is one. In your home, be my guest, be as unsafe or as incompetent as you like but around me in public, I prefer you at least show safety & competence. I am also an instructor & competitor, this why I have the opinion I have.
I see too many idiots that shouldn't be carrying guns in public. I get a lot of flak for this, so please, no flames, isn't changing my mind. The gal in Idaho last week is one such tragedy. An untrained person with a gun in public is not safe from attack & makes everyone else less safe. You are right, one day course with no practice is barely useful. Why there should be a reasonable qualification, maybe set by the NRA to ease the idiologues fears.
 
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fredj338 said:
This is irresponsible. You imply that people should fear vigilante ccw for social bad behavior?? All it takes is one douche to pull a gun on someone texting in a theater to ruin it for the level headed group that would like to carry to prevent previous tragedy. Carry implies responsibility. Try & promote that.
Click to expand...

You miss my point. An armed society is a polite society. I don't pick fights when armed (or not), stay out of the passing lane except when passing, and shrug off the occasional bird I get for driving at the speed limit. My phone is off and silenced before the feature starts (but I may check my mail during the 20 minutes of ads and trailers, and attach my green Hickok45 ear plugs when the sound pressure exceeds 100 dB).
 
fredj338 said:
I don't see it to way, thugs with litte training & BC masks. I saw a lo. Lw spee high drag going on in. Vido, but mayb w hav diff views of taking.
Click to expand...

There is a clip up on YouTube of Fox News with a former Seal watching the video of the Paris Attack. His quote is the way they moved up on the downed officer guy on right covers guy on left. Guy on left shoots down cop moving through the target with no hesitation or a moments pause. Seal sums it up by saying this is not their first rodeo.
 
While I understand the positive results of mandatory weapon courses, I do struggle with more government involvement. I guess I'm sorta on the fence on this one.
But not to hijack this thread, but I would like to inject a hypothetical for a moment. Let's say you have a nice back yard with a picnic table back there and you have lived in that home for years. Then one year a hornets nest appears in one of the trees on a low branch. The kids try to play in the back yard and they get stung. Try to have a picnic and people get stung. Mow the lawn and you get stung. So what is the solution? Do you move? Do you just keep waiting, wondering if you will be stung today? Do you go back there and try to reason with them?
 
What I am trying to say in my post about the hornets is that those of us that prefer to carry, does it not seem disgusting that we have to wait on these cowards and try to be prepared when they decide when to attack us. As with the hornets, if we know where they are at,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?
 
canesfan33068 said:
There is a clip up on YouTube of Fox News with a former Seal watching the video of the Paris Attack. His quote is the way they moved up on the downed officer guy on right covers guy on left. Guy on left shoots down cop moving through the target with no hesitation or a moments pause. Seal sums it up by saying this is not their first rodeo.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the MOH winning marine, Carpenter was on backing up my point, modest training at best. I can take a non shooter & in 2hrs have them looking like that. 16hr, have them shooting like that. Watch how they move. No trained pair moves like that in the open with 360deg threats. Many times they were not even watching their 6. Trained soldiers don't stand or walk in the middle of the street. So we all have an opinion, surprise.
 
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Neumann said:
You miss my point. An armed society is a polite society. I don't pick fights when armed (or not), stay out of the passing lane except when passing, and shrug off the occasional bird I get for driving at the speed limit. My phone is off and silenced before the feature starts (but I may check my mail during the 20 minutes of ads and trailers, and attach my green Hickok45 ear plugs when the sound pressure exceeds 100 dB).
Click to expand...

I didn't miss the point, it was just the way it was stated. 100% agree, an armed society is a politer society. When I carry, I am more inclined to let stuff go by with a wave too, but my point still stands, I am not a fan of people NOT accepting the respinsibility of ccw & training & practicing accordingly. I don't want drivers on the road that cant drive, I sure as hell dont want people carrying guns that cant shoot. That goes for LEO too, most are just not up to the task of carrying & using a gun, but are alklowed because they had 40hr in the academy & an annual qual. Still more than the avg ccw though.
 
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