Indented ring inside 5906 barrel

[chanroc]

Hi -

I picked up a used S&W 5906 (a police trade in) and just noticed there's an indented ring inside the barrel (see attached pics). Is this normal? I don't remember seeing it when I first cleaned it and it seemed to shoot fine when I took it out to the range this Thursday. I sent an email to Smith and Wesson as well, but I was curious if you all could shed some light on this. I'm a little leery shooting this again until I know more about this phenomenon.

Thanks!

 

[WTN1271]

Is there any noticeable distortion on the outside of the barrel or any abnormal wear spots? If you slide a small diameter dowel down the inside of the barrel can you feel the deformity? I assume the barrel has been soaked and cleaned with brass brush. What ammo did you recently use?

 

[625smith]

It appears that you have a bulged barrel. Most likely there was a bullet stuck in the barrel and another round was fired.

 

[tkdguy]

Exactly my thoughts

It appears that you have a bulged barrel. Most likely there was a bullet stuck in the barrel and another round was fired.

Or, a squib. If it was a squib and removed properly likely no problem. But if you can return it that would be a ok or buy a new barrel if you can but only if it poses a problem. Looks like a squib.

 

[chanroc]

I don't notice a bulge or feel one outside the barrel. I'll have to come up with a dowel and try running it inside the barrel. Oh and I was shooting American Eagle and PMC FMJ rounds (115/124) the other day. All seemed to go bang, and for the most part, hit the center of the target. This isn't my primary 9MM (I have a full size and compact M&P, plus a Walther PPQ and a M9). I ended up buying it cause I thought the older 5900 series were neat. I can't seem to find anyplace that has a replacement barrel in stock (with the limited googling I've done). Maybe the bulge was already there when I got it? To be honest, I didn't think to check inside the barrel when I did the FFL transfer. Shame on me!

 

[Sevens]

Not sure what the guy above means with regard to "squib" as if a squib is different than a stuck bullet.

If the barrel is indeed bulged, it almost certainly happened because a bullet was lodged in the barrel and another was fired behind it. The extreme heat and pressure takes the column of air, compresses it and before the air can move the stuck bullet forward, the barrel bulges under the mayhem.

I have a suggestion for you:
If the barrel moves freely in the pistol such that it is functional, give the pistol another range session and attempt to do your finest slow-fire small group shooting work. Fact is, MANY guns will continue to shoot well and accurately and function properly even with a bulged barrel.

Yes, it is not ideal. But while it isn't common, it certainly isn't rare. If S&W would GIVE you a free replacement barrel, awesome, but I doubt they even have any. Buying a barrel isn't going to be cheap and if you do, the peace of mind would be great but tangible difference may be nil.

I would say that it would be terrible karma to sell, trade or otherwise get rid of it UNLESS you disclose the issue, but that will obviously wreck it's value.

In my circle of people there are three guns with bulged barrels, two are revolvers and one is a pistol and all 3 function 100% and all 3 are better than average in small group accuracy.

Less than ideal... but there is life after a bulged barrel.

 

[chanroc]

Not sure what the guy above means with regard to "squib" as if a squib is different than a stuck bullet.

If the barrel is indeed bulged, it almost certainly happened because a bullet was lodged in the barrel and another was fired behind it. The extreme heat and pressure takes the column of air, compresses it and before the air can move the stuck bullet forward, the barrel bulges under the mayhem.

I have a suggestion for you:
If the barrel moves freely in the pistol such that it is functional, give the pistol another range session and attempt to do your finest slow-fire small group shooting work. Fact is, MANY guns will continue to shoot well and accurately and function properly even with a bulged barrel.

Yes, it is not ideal. But while it isn't common, it certainly isn't rare. If S&W would GIVE you a free replacement barrel, awesome, but I doubt they even have any. Buying a barrel isn't going to be cheap and if you do, the peace of mind would be great but tangible difference may be nil.

I would say that it would be terrible karma to sell, trade or otherwise get rid of it UNLESS you disclose the issue, but that will obviously wreck it's value.

In my circle of people there are three guns with bulged barrels, two are revolvers and one is a pistol and all 3 function 100% and all 3 are better than average in small group accuracy.

Less than ideal... but there is life after a bulged barrel.

Don't worry, I plan on keeping it. It's more of a range toy, than a self defense weapon. I have plenty of other options for that.
The barrel seems to move just fine inside and functions. I'll take it back out with me the next time I hit the range. I'm sure it's still more accurate than I am. I'll be curious to see what S&W says. I'm not sure how long it will take to hear back from them. I'll end up getting a replacement barrel for it too, whenever I find one.

 

[DCW]

Funky

Pictures (say, four of 'em) taken at right angles to the barrel's length (with a strongly contrasting background, if possible) might be helpful, particularly if it's what I'd also strongly consider in this matter: an elongated barrel.

Can't find a four-inch but have a couple of 3 1/2-inchers? Slice, dice, drop in, grind and file exterior and pretty soon one has a serviceable and sellable pistol - from exterior viewpoints.

There's also the heat-'n'-stretch method. Been done on more than a fair share of wheel guns before, even after if one needs a rarer 4-inch barrel to make some serious, albeit corrupt, coinage.

We of the S&W Generations 1-through-3 semi-auto types are just now starting to realize a lack of parts whereas such is something already long known by those wheeling it. Available barrels in other locales were difficult to find until the last decade-or-so as the "online" communities grew.

Then, especially when involving humans, there are the "because it is there" crowd, who wish to do something just to see if it can be done - even innocently so.

Later.

 

[gman51]

Yep you have a bulged/ringed barrel. I bought a Colt Police Special that the finish was mostly patina and I hadn't looked inside the barrel. Not till a couple weeks later I was stripping the finish and saw the bulged exterior. Then I saw the ID was bulged out. Yep learned my lesson about checking the barrel inside condition. I even had talked to the dealer I bought it from and of course he didn't mention it. He may not have checked the barrel but I am guessing that's why the gun was sold online auction.
The gun shoots fine and like the above said it usually isn't a dangerous problem. Lessened learned for me.

 

[tkdguy]

Squib: Hand loaded round without a power charge but bullet is lodged in the barrel by force of primer. Usually leaves a ring somewhere down the barrel. The plugged barrel may have had the bullet removed by a brass rod but who knows if that process was correctly performed. I've had one in a 357 squib and turned it topside and let oil soak on top of the round over night and a tap with a brass rod and the bullet just exited. Slight lead ring inside. No other problem.

 

[model3sw]

I'm in agreement it's a damaged barrel regardless of the play on words of phraseology ... it all means the same thing. It's a bad barrel.

It was likely a squib load (means a low power load where the round goes "bang" but no projectile comes out the end. A squib is usually pretty easy to hear and feel the difference but after firing 30 or 40 rounds on the line, even the best of us might miss hearing or feeling a squib and put another one down the pipe. "THIS" is what happens when you get a squib load and back it up with another hot round. Had the shooter stopped and popped the stuck projectile out with a dowel or sturdy cleaning rod it usually does no to very little damage. I suggest you get a new barrel in that thing ... fast.

If you have problems finding another barrel, contact me.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

In the immortal words of Scoobie Doo........Rut Row Raggie!!!

 

[Inusuit]

I suggest you get a new barrel in that thing ... fast.

If the pistol functions and shoots with decent accuracy, and is a range gun, why the urgency to replace the barrel?

As other posters have noted, bulged barrels are not uncommon and IMHO, pose no danger to the shooter.

 

[Pisgah]

Squib: Hand loaded round without a power charge but bullet is lodged in the barrel by force of primer. Usually leaves a ring somewhere down the barrel. The plugged barrel may have had the bullet removed by a brass rod but who knows if that process was correctly performed. I've had one in a 357 squib and turned it topside and let oil soak on top of the round over night and a tap with a brass rod and the bullet just exited. Slight lead ring inside. No other problem.

A squib load may or may not be a handload. It is simply an under-charged load, and they occur (rarely) with factory ammo, too. And a squib, usually resulting in a bullet that fails to exit the bore, does not cause a bulge on its own. As already noted, it takes another bullet fired while the squib load's bullet is still stuck to bulge the barrel.

 

[model3sw]

If the pistol functions and shoots with decent accuracy, and is a range gun, why the urgency to replace the barrel?

As other posters have noted, bulged barrels are not uncommon and IMHO, pose no danger to the shooter.

Perhaps you should consult a metallurgist on this that perhaps he could make a more lasting impression on you about how unsafe it really is. At minimum, the barrel is certainly flawed and weakened.

Yes, it is YOUR own personal preference. But, what should you wait for ?

Possibly to wait for it to blow up in your face where you end up looking like "Jackie Boy" in Frank Miller's Sin City ... with the slide sticking out of your forehead ? Yes, that is theatrics (and good theatrics, I think). Further, I agree it is not likely to happen exactly that way but it could very well malfunction and blow up in your hand.

A few years back a member in California with a 52-2 wrote me for advice on his S&W 52-2. He experienced a squib load while not catching the squibb, had the same mishap.

He didn't realize he had just fired a a squib. The next round out it cost him a slide, a barrel, a barrel bushing, a trigger and a gunsmith to repair the gun and refit the new (used) slide, barrel and other parts.

The slide actually expanded and slightly twisted near the ejection port and it jammed in that position. He explained (ex-post facto) to me that would never happen to him again. That's how some of us learn ... the hard way.

This man was an avid, experienced, bullseye shooter of about 45 years old and IIRC a NRA instructor.

I, too, am guilty as far as when shooting an older guns, e.g. a NM3 or Schofield or American, after making sure it is mechanically sound all the way through and still considering .. what if the guy who loaded the ammo accidentally loaded a double charge ? That's why I load my own target ammo for 44R, 45 S&W Schofield, and .38-44 Gallery (New Model 3, not HD), my own mid-range (52, 52-1, 52-2, Giles Mid-range, Colt 1911 mid-range) and my own Giles Target .45 rounds that I also use in my S&W 25-2 and other .45 ACP revolvers. The latter is a H&G 200 grain SWC (Clark or Giles specs) with 3.6 to 3.8 bullseye). I also use this on all my .38 Target Revolvers except the .38-44 Outdoorsman that require a stronger charge to fly straight. For the New Model 3's I load on the lighter side, more toward the Gallery load ranges with smokeless conversion equation and specs set by Phillip Sharpe.

The old timer that taught mentored me to reloading quoted: "Follow Phil Sharpe's loads and you can never go wrong". 40 years later, I still find that advice accurate and logical. How much powder to you need to punch a hole in a sheet of paper or hit a steel silhouette target at 25 to 100 feet ?

Thinking ... with less regard for losing my hand than if I should damage a several thousand dollar revolver.

Yes, I'm exaggerating ... but not by much.

When it comes to safety, I feel this one is a no-brainer. Err to the side of safety and caution. Replace the barrel is my suggestion.

Would you rather try to save a few bucks or risk having an accident occur (which at this point would not be an accident but rather a calculated risk or visible evidence that impending doom may follow) in a situation where the danger has already manifested itself SO visibly ?

On a 9mm the only problems I've ever had was with some cheaper reloads that I had not purchased but were "come-alongs" with a gun or collection purchased, learning the hard way just to dump the reloaded 9mm ammo that comes to me second hand. New 9mm is so cheap sometimes it does not pay to reload, so, most 9mm pistols are being shot with full loads.

I ranted a bit here but IMHO, it is just plain foolish to look at that barrel to convince yourself anything other than it is an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Sevens]

You ranted a BIT much?!

Seriously, this isn't a safety risk, anymore than is shooting (and handloading) to begin with. Even a brand new 5906 is discharging 35k PSI with each trigger press.

If you absolutely, positively MUST avoid all risk at all costs, stop with the handguns and go do Sodoku or crocheting.

 

[0849]

At the risk of also being accused of ranting, I believe Model3SW's post is worth repeating, it is not worth incurring the (unnecessary) risk of shooting a pistol with a known damaged barrel, and clearly a bulged barrel is a damaged barrel, just my $ .02.

Perhaps you should consult a metallurgist on this that perhaps he could make a more lasting impression on you about how unsafe it really is. At minimum, the barrel is certainly flawed and weakened.

Yes, it is YOUR own personal preference. But, what should you wait for ?

Possibly to wait for it to blow up in your face where you end up looking like "Jackie Boy" in Frank Miller's Sin City ... with the slide sticking out of your forehead ? Yes, that is theatrics (and good theatrics, I think). Further, I agree it is not likely to happen exactly that way but it could very well malfunction and blow up in your hand.

A few years back a member in California with a 52-2 wrote me for advice on his S&W 52-2. He experienced a squib load while not catching the squibb, had the same mishap.

He didn't realize he had just fired a a squib. The next round out it cost him a slide, a barrel, a barrel bushing, a trigger and a gunsmith to repair the gun and refit the new (used) slide, barrel and other parts.

The slide actually expanded and slightly twisted near the ejection port and it jammed in that position. He explained (ex-post facto) to me that would never happen to him again. That's how some of us learn ... the hard way.

This man was an avid, experienced, bullseys shooter of about 45 years old and IIRC a NRA instructor.

I, too, am guilty as far as when shooting an older guns, e.g. a NM3 or Schofield or American, after making sure it is mechanically sound all the way through and still considering .. what if the guy who loaded the ammo accidentally loaded a double charge ? That's why I load my own target ammo for 44R, 45 S&W Schofield, and .38-44 Gallery (New Model 3, not HD), my own mid-range (52, 52-1, 52-2, Giles Mid-range, Colt 1911 mid-range) and my own Giles Target .45 rounds that I also use in my S&W 25-2 and other .45 ACP revolvers. The latter is a H&G 200 grain SWC (Clark or Giles specs) with 3.6 to 3.8 bullseye). I also use this on all my .38 Target Revolvers except the .38-44 Outdoorsman that require a stronger charge to fly straight. For the New Model 3's I load on the lighter side, more toward the Gallery load ranges with smokeless conversion equation and specs set by Phillip Sharpe.

The old timer that taught mentored me to reloading quoted: "Follow Phil Sharpe's loads and you can never go wrong". 40 years later, I still find that advice accurate and logical. How much powder to you need to punch a hole in a sheet of paper or hit a steel silhouette target at 25 to 100 feet ?

Thinking ... with less regard for losing my hand than if I should damage a several thousand dollar revolver.

Yes, I'm exaggerating ... but no by much.

When it comes to safety, I feel this one is a no-brainer. Err to the side of safety and caution. Replace the barrel is my suggestion.

Would you rather try to save a few bucks or risk having an accident occur (which at this point would not be an accident but rather a calculated risk or visible evidence that impending doom may follow) in a situation where the danger has already manifested itself SO visibly ?

On a 9mm the only problems I've ever had was with some cheaper reloads that I had not purchased but were "come-alongs" with a gun or collection purchased, learning the hard way just to dump the reloaded 9mm ammo that comes to me second hand. New 9mm is so cheap sometimes it does not pay to reload, so, most 9mm pistols are being shot with full loads.

I ranted a bit here but IMHO, it is just plain foolish to look at that barrel to convince yourself anything other than it is an accident waiting to happen.

 

[S&W Rover]

I just bought a spare 5906 barrel from Midway -- $79.99

I had to wait for it to re-appear in stock, filling out a "notify me" email request. When it showed up in stock, the time to order it is short! But I got one, on the second try.

Why? Because I have a 5906 and a 915, and parts like a barrel will be hard to find in the future. These guns have many parts -- I can't stockpile all of them! -- but an extra barrel is a useful thing to have around.

****

Added:

Perhaps you should consult a metallurgist on this that perhaps he could make a more lasting impression on you about how unsafe it really is. At minimum, the barrel is certainly flawed and weakened.

I agree. I would not shoot a bulged barrel.

On a 9mm the only problems I've ever had was with some cheaper reloads that I had not purchased but were "come-alongs" with a gun or collection purchased, learning the hard way just to dump the reloaded 9mm ammo that comes to me second hand. New 9mm is so cheap sometimes it does not pay to reload, so, most 9mm pistols are being shot with full loads.

I agree again! NEVER shoot someone else's reloads. I don't let anyone else shoot mine, and I won't shoot anyone else's. When I shoot my own reloads, I know I am responsible for whatever risk is incurred, and I'm okay with that -- for me.

 

[Sevens]

At the risk of also being accused of ranting, I believe Model3SW's post is worth repeating, it is not worth incurring the (unnecessary) risk of shooting a pistol with a known damaged barrel, and clearly a bulged barrel is a damaged barrel, just my $ .02.

This seems 100% reasonable to me, except for the repeating part. As well, merely my opinion.

 

[0849]

This seems 100% reasonable to me, except for the repeating part. As well, merely my opinion.

My Marine Corps training mandates that at least 300 repetitions are necessary to effective learn a new behavior, so sorry, but you have 298 more repetitions inbound

 

[Sevens]

Fun with numbers... the log says I have 715 rounds through the one handgun I own that has a bulged barrel since I bought it. Apples to oranges of course, it isn't a 5906.

I have no problem with erring on the side of caution but I'll stand by what I said. If you require minimization of all risk, shooting firearms is perhaps not the place to be. (stay away from motor vehicles also)

 

[S&W Rover]

The 5906 barrel I bought from Midway is apparently of new manufacture (this is a good option for the OP with the bulged barrel). It is cut a little differently (but is the same in all key dimensions) and has a laser cut "9mm" marking on the hood instead of a stamping saying "9mm Parabellum."

The ramp is not chromed, unlike original barrels. It has a dimple on the bottom, indicating it was probably made on one of the newer CNC machines. So I would guess it was made in the past several years, and was not "new old stock" from back when.

It is well-made, though, and works flawlessly (my old barrel has become my spare parts barrel).

 

[chanroc]

OP here.... Just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to voice your opinions/concerns. At the time of when I first posted this issue, I wasn't able to find a source for a replacement barrel. Well I just got a notification from MidwayUSA that some came in and a few mouse clicks later, it's being processed for shipment. I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do with the original barrel.
I want to use some calipers to verify the outer diameter hasn't bulged out. If that's the case, I'll probably keep it as a backup. If there is a bulge, I consider discarding it (assuming the replacement works). In theory, the new one should drop in just fine, but I'm not certain this is a direct OEM replacement, even though MidwayUSA lists it as such. According to a S&W Rep I spoke with, they no longer make components for the 5906. We shall see....

Thanks again for all your help!!

 

[Ascension]

Have exactly the same issue with the barrel in my CS9 Chiefs Special. It's ringing right under the machined ring just back of the muzzle. This gun I can assure you has NEVER seen a squib just started eroding in the area under that machined ring. First thing we noticed was suddenly looked like something was key-holeing the targets at the range then found this when we pulled everything down to clean up after that. Was very light at first but has gotten progressively worse and this pistol is now retired and in the safe until this is resolved. Called Smith and have a return label however with the issues reported on servicing 3rd gens and the new company may just spring for a new barrel out of pocket and be done with it.
Here is a photo of mine.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Looks like the barrel is bulged far enough back that it does not affect functioning (if there were outside swelling). I suspect it will not affect accuracy much if any.

Many years ago I purchased a WWII P.38 that had a bulge near muzzle. I solved that problem by cutting off the barrel behind the bulge and making a P.38K out of it - silver soldered a ramped front sight from some old air rifle on it - worked fine. A buddy coveted it, so I eventually sold it to him.

Later bought another P.38, and believe me, I inspected the bore thoroughly!

John

P.S. Sometimes bulged barrels are caused by a cleaning patch left in the bore, and then firing a round. I saw this now and then in rifles in the Army.

 

[model3sw]

I'm 'agin" shootin 'er with the damaged barrel but, if we were in the desert being chased by Rommel, and we didn't have another barrel, that one would work fine.

My only point here (and I see opinions flopping both ways) is ... why ?

Why leave in the damaged barrel when the barrels are readily available and basically .. a "drop in" part.

After being an employer for 45 years of my life ... ANYTHING to prevent and accident is well spent money. Especially, when that fault is there staring you in DIRECTLY the eye and slapping your face just to aggravate you.

Shoot it till the cows come home if that's your preference. To me, it's just does not make sense to keep using it when you can drop in another barrel, a simple "do it yourself-er" for $75.00.

Will it ? Won't it ? Safe ? not Safe ? ... why even wonder for $75 ? I'm done now.

 

[DCW]

This Isn't Exactly A Good Point

It's a superior point.

When sometimes faced with the unusual we of this forum likewise tend to overlook the practical, maybe even to the point of thinking that someone else - in this matter the original questioner - would know the practical thing to do, e.g., "get another barrel."

So, get another barrel.

Later.

 

[SOTVEN]

I'm 'agin" shootin 'er with the damaged barrel but, if we were in the desert being chased by Rommel, and we didn't have another barrel, that one would work fine.

My only point here (and I see opinions flopping both ways) is ... why ?

Why leave in the damaged barrel when the barrels are readily available and basically .. a "drop in" part.

After being an employer for 45 years of my life ... ANYTHING to prevent and accident is well spent money. Especially, when that fault is there staring you in DIRECTLY the eye and slapping your face just to aggravate you.

Shoot it till the cows come home if that's your preference. To me, it's just does not make sense to keep using it when you can drop in another barrel, a simple "do it yourself-er" for $75.00.

Will it ? Won't it ? Safe ? not Safe ? ... why even wonder for $75 ? I'm done now.

I AGREE 100% FRIEND. NO NEED FOR RISKING IN MY OPINION TOO.

 

[reddog81]

Does anyone have ANY evidence of a ringed or bulged barrel that has ever hurt anyone?

What is the absolute worse case scenario? There's no way the barrel and slide are both going to explode. Even if the barrel some how started to leak gas (which isn't going to happen) the leak would be contained by the slide and the gun would fail to function.

The example given of someone firing a round into a stuck bullet(squib) and twisting/locking up the slide is completely irrelevant to the question at hand. No one is advocating shooting into stuck bullets.

 

[firescout]

Have exactly the same issue with the barrel in my CS9 Chiefs Special. It's ringing right under the machined ring just back of the muzzle. This gun I can assure you has NEVER seen a squib just started eroding in the area under that machined ring. First thing we noticed was suddenly looked like something was key-holeing the targets at the range then found this when we pulled everything down to clean up after that. Was very light at first but has gotten progressively worse and this pistol is now retired and in the safe until this is resolved. Called Smith and have a return label however with the issues reported on servicing 3rd gens and the new company may just spring for a new barrel out of pocket and be done with it.
Here is a photo of mine.

This is interesting info. The OP said it doesn't look or feel like the exterior of his pistol's barrel is bulged. This post here shows that it is possible to have an internal 'ring' in the barrel that is not caused by firing a bullet into a barrel obstruction.