Info Requested on Russian S&W

[Hitthespot]

Hello everyone,

Looking for more information on a recent addition revolver. It's markings indicated Smith and Wesson springfield Russian model 1 Commercial. 1874-1878. A bunch of different dates stamped on it.

Local gun shop offered $1500.00 but I think it might be worth much more.

Any info at all would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Bill

[/url]20170202_175310 by Bill Kincaid, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[lebomm]

That's a Number 3 framed, Third Russian Model. Has some finish issues, but otherwise looks pretty good. How are the bore and charge holes?
Sorry, but I'm not expert enough to help much with value, but $1500 sounds a mite low to me,too.

Larry

 

[glowe]

Welcome to the Forum. Serial number would help us help you, but if you look at the end of the address line on the barrel rib, I am curious what it says?

This is a very nice example of a Model 3 Russian that would have been manufactured from 1874 to 1878. There is a newly published Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th Edition that gives the following values. Very Good - $2250 (40%); Fine - $3000 (70%); Excellent - $6000 (90%)

Never set foot in that shop again! You have at least a $4000 revolver there and maybe more if condition can be determined nearer 90%. Great gun with ivory stocks may bring even more.

 

[Hitthespot]

Gary thank you for the information I greatly appreciate it. I will get a magnifying glass and take a couple more pictures to post today. I look forward to your comments.

Larry thank you also for responding.

Thanks

Bill

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, Bill! Is the finish on that gun nickel or metallic paint? The reason I ask is the appearance and also the trigger guard looks plated. The trigger guard and spur should be blue. I have its sister which was also nickeled originally but now only has about 10% finish left.

Actually, here is a better picture.

 

[opoefc]

$1,500 is about right for a gun shop's offer to buy for cash. It's probably a $3,000 + gun retail and probably won't immediately fly off the shelf at that price, as most local type gun stores don't get a lot of antique buyer traffic. Depends on how fast you wan't to turn it into cash - your options are (1) consign it to the gun shop with a $3K+ reserve and negotiate their sales commission (2) Consign it to a good online, or physical, auction, with the same reserve & commission negotiation, and (3) list it here on the Forum for sale at a $3K+ price and see what you are offered. It appears the gun may have had a refinish many years ago. Good Luck, Ed.

 

[Hitthespot]

More info

Here is an additional image, and info.

1) The whole gun appears Nickel plated to me.
2) The only other number on the gun is at the base of the stock. SH in a diamond pattern and below it the number 42803.
The cylinder walls and barrel appear to be in great shape. I would give the rifling 90+.
3) The gun locks up positive and the trigger locks up in cocked position as if from the factory. Trigger pull very crisp.

[/url]S&W Rib by Bill Kincaid, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[jleiper]

Early 3rd Model Russian. Commercial production ran 39,000 to 52,500 making 42803 early. Probably 1874 or early 1875. Diamond SH is Schuler, Hartley & Graham (SH&G) of New York City mark.
It should have assy numbers on the right side of the frame under the grip plate, on the face of the clinder, on the bottom of the barrel latch, and rear face of the barrel extension.
Joe

 

[Hitthespot]

There is a number of the face of the Cylinder. 4112 appears stamped one number at a time because there not lined up. The 2 is slightly higher. Kind of funny.

I'm not taking the grips off. These Ivory grips have yellowed so beautifully I would be scared to death I would crack them.

I can't find the number at bottom of the barrel latch. There doesn't seem to be any other numbers on this thing but I said that before and have found two sets. It sure helps when you know where to look.

Thank you everyone for your help. I'm going to enjoy this forum, your my kind of people. Very nice and very helpful!!

Bill

 

[jleiper]

Like this
Joe

 

[mrcvs]

This is a nice firearm, but the finish makes me suspicious of renickeling and certain parts, such as the barrel latch, were not originally nickeled.

 

[Hitthespot]

Oh yea, I didn't see it because there was a small spec of dirty oil right on the serial number. It also is stamped 4112.

I don't know enough to know if refinishing was done. However if it was done it had to be done along time ago. You just can't get this kind of wear in a couple of years, that much I do know. Plus I have seen these completely nickel plated.


Thanks Joe!!

 

[glowe]

I don't see any nickel on the trigger, hammer, and the latch knurled rounds are dark?? Thegun is sharp and all edges are as sharp as they come. Stampings are very sharp and appear not to have been molested, and you just do not see many refinishes that look this good?? Also, looking at the two pictures, I think the flat nickel appearance is because of the lighting and the top section of the barrel has the gloss of an old original nickel finish. Still hoping for original finish, but as we all say, only a detailed inspection would tell the tale.

 

[Hitthespot]

there is definitely no nickel on the hammer. Also I didn't notice it until I changed the lighting on it, but there is a stamp just above the grip,(you can see it in the first picture right above the top of the grip) It's stamped 1874. That 1874 is very clear and sharp. I cannot believe that a refinish wouldn't have rounded all the corners on the numbers. I will be shocked if this gun is refinished. But that's why I'm here...............

Here is a couple more pictures, hope this helps.

AGAIN THANK YOU EVERYONE. UNBLIEVEABLE!!

[/url]right side angle by Bill Kincaid, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]right side by Bill Kincaid, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[mrcvs]

In post #7, the barrel latch is clearly nickeled. The nickel of the barrel latch is like that of the remainder of the firearm in quality. That is, it was applied at the same time as on the rest of the gun. The barrel latch should be blue. Therefore, this strongly suggests an old renickel, although well done at that.

 

[Hitthespot]

Thank your MRCVS in trying to help me identify and authenticate this Revolver. I have in fact decided to sell it. I would not want to mis-represent the gun and sell it for much more than it's worth. I would disclose fully what I know about it and how I came in possession of it. However, on the other hand I don't want to give it away for much much less than it's worth.

So I have a couple of questions. While I have always enjoyed hand guns I've never collect older guns, so I know little about them.

1) Who, or how do I determine if the gun was in fact refinished at some point?
2) What, if anything, does this do to the value of the Firearm if it was refinished?

 

[mrcvs]

This forum has the foremost experts when it comes to Smith & Wesson revolvers so, in time, with enough pictures, there should be a general consensus as to is it refinished or not. I am an amateur relative to some of the others, believe me, but I don't hesitate to speak what I see, for better or worse.

The best way to sell this would be, after the consensus determines if original or not, to post on the forum here. If original, could start at 3k and gradually lower the price until you receive an offer you like. If renickeled, probably start in the $1800 range and go from there.

If you don't like any of the offers received on this forum, you could attempt to sell at a national firearms auction house such as James Julia or Rock Island Auction.

 

[Hitthespot]

Well thanks again for all the info, while your comments are not in my favor, I'm glad you didn't hesitate to speak about what you thought were inconsistencies. This is exactly what I was looking for. I want to know for sure what I have.

If any particular pictures are needed I would be happy to take them. I apologize I'm using a Samsung phone but it is all I have.

This fire was obtained in a small auction. The gun was in a box marked $7000. I don't if that's what was paid at one time or if that was just what was being asked. Seems high either way to me. However again that's why I'm here.

I REALLY APPRECIATE EVERYONES COMMENTS AND HELP. Any info I can post to help please feel free to ask for the info.

 

[sw44russ]

Looks Refinished to me. I would pay $1500 but probably no more.

It's very nice, but I don't think that Nickel is original.

I saw one like this sell at Auction for $1200 recently.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

It could have been refinished at S&H. My understanding is they did do some of that and engraving after receiving the guns from S&W. The 1874 stamp on the butt is typical of the 3rd models. Also should be stamped "Russian Model" on the top rib rear.