Inherited This .38 Special CTG From My Dad

[The Hairy Beast]

No screw ahead of the trigger guard:

 

[walnutred]

Outstanding revolver. If we were taking bets I'd put my money on the modifications being done pre-WW2 and maybe pre-WW1. Either way the worl was done by someone who knew how to use a file.

 

[mg357]

Nice s&w revolver

 

[Mk VII]

Large numbers of Springfields remaining in the Ordnance system were sold off to NRA members through the DCM in the 1950s and for some years they were very common and were endlessly modified for sporting purposes.
I doubt this revolver came out of the DCM as well, but it may indeed have been acquired around the same time and then 'modernised', it appears to be well done by a competent operator.

 

[Göring's S&W]

In all the excitement discussing the grip modifications, no one corrected The Hairy Beast in his description of this revolver...this is a 5-screw, not a 4-screw. Isn't that a screw I see in front of the trigger guard, and 4 on the frame?

As the hairy beast said, the gun is actually a 4 screw. It is referred to as a pre 5 screw 4 screw by collectors. We knew the gun was not a 5 screw since the 5 screw frame first appeared with the 1905 variation of the M&P, and so before then, they were 4 screw frames.

Do you think the wood grips are actual S@W grips from 1905 or later? If I hadn't been told to remove them I would have assumed they were original.

Well the one give away is that for the 1902 M&P, all were round butt. So since the grips are square butt, they automatically came from a later gun. I had a pic on my other computer that showed the K frame grip types through the years. Your gun originally had hard rubber, or it could have had special order grips such as mother of pearl, or ivory. For the 1905 square butt guns, DCWilson is correct. The first type of grip on the 1905s were the non-medallion, concave type, followed by your type, the large recessed medallion, followed by convex non medallion, and so on and so forth. I want to say that the recessed medallion grips first appeared around 1914 or so but I am not sure of that. They surely were gone by the 1920s as DCWilson pointed out. I have a pair on a 1905 M&P SN 253XXX which SN to the gun.

In addition, your gun was only made for a few years, with only 28,645 made, which is not very many for an M&P. I would venture to say there would be a considerable attrition rate for these given the purposes that many of these guns were bought and used for.

 

[JP@AK]

I want to say that the recessed medallion grips first appeared around 1914 or so but I am not sure of that.

About 1910 is the consensus. 1911 at the latest.
My 1902 Target is wearing a pair (non-original) and when Roy lettered the gun, he mentioned the stocks being post-1910.
Jack

 

[The Hairy Beast]

As the hairy beast said, the gun is actually a 4 screw. It is referred to as a pre 5 screw 4 screw by collectors. We knew the gun was not a 5 screw since the 5 screw frame first appeared with the 1905 variation of the M&P, and so before then, they were 4 screw frames.



Well the one give away is that for the 1902 M&P, all were round butt. So since the grips are square butt, they automatically came from a later gun. I had a pic on my other computer that showed the K frame grip types through the years. Your gun originally had hard rubber, or it could have had special order grips such as mother of pearl, or ivory. For the 1905 square butt guns, DCWilson is correct. The first type of grip on the 1905s were the non-medallion, concave type, followed by your type, the large recessed medallion, followed by convex non medallion, and so on and so forth. I want to say that the recessed medallion grips first appeared around 1914 or so but I am not sure of that. They surely were gone by the 1920s as DCWilson pointed out. I have a pair on a 1905 M&P SN 253XXX which SN to the gun.

In addition, your gun was only made for a few years, with only 28,645 made, which is not very many for an M&P. I would venture say there would be a considerable attrition rate for these given the purposes that many of these guns were bought and used for.

Thanks, now all I have to do is find bullets that fit it. Already discovered that .38 special rounds won't do. There were about 20 boxes of .38's in the safe (dated late 1950's) and none of them were of any use, although they did fit the 1956 pre-27 Not A HighwayPatrolman .357 I found in the collection.

 

[JP@AK]

Huh? They won't fit, how? They should chamber just fine. Are they too big around? Are you sure they are .38 Special and not .38 S&W?
This is puzzling.
Jack

 

[The Hairy Beast]

Huh? They won't fit, how? They should chamber just fine. Are they too big around? Are you sure they are .38 Special and not .38 S&W?
This is puzzling.
Jack

No, they are .38 special and they are too long. Can't close the cylinder.

 

[JP@AK]

Have you run a cleaning brush and patches through the charge holes? Perhaps they are just gummed up. That could be from shooting the old Colt's cartridges through it and not cleaning it thoroughly afterward.
I'd clean it carefully before I did anything else.
JP

 

[Oyeboteb]

No, they are .38 special and they are too long. Can't close the cylinder.

Yes - get a good Bronze Bore Brush, and, some Bore Cleaning Solvent, and, Oil, and, using each in turn, clean the Cylinder Chambers/Bores well.

Then, Oil everything anywhere on it, which moves, slides or rotates.

Too - are you sure the Cartridges you were trying, are indeed .38 Special and stamped so on the Cartridge Heads? ( Regardless of the Box they may have been in ) and, that they are not old .357 Magnum Cartridges?

 

[Art Doc]

I've seen square butt guns converted to round butt, but never the other way around. Great memento.

 

[The Hairy Beast]

Yes - get a good Bronze Bore Brush, and, some Bore Cleaning Solvent, and, Oil, and, using each in turn, clean the Cylinder Chambers/Bores well.

Then, Oil everything anywhere on it, which moves, slides or rotates.

Too - are you sure the Cartridges you were trying, are indeed .38 Special and stamped so on the Cartridge Heads? ( Regardless of the Box they may have been in ) and, that they are not old .357 Magnum Cartridges?

Good idea, I'll check again. I really would like to shoot that gun.

Oh - just for fun, also found this 1908 .25 Colt ACP Auto (vest pistol) wrapped up in a checkered cloth. That I have fired and it's a hoot! Shoots nice for a 100 year old gun.

And this is a video of the Colt in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFKij-httRs

 

[dinghysailer]

I agree, those are S&W grips from about 1910-1920. They were marked in pencil on the right grip with the serial number of the revolver they came with (assuming they we not replacements). Usually well on worn grips like these the pencil marks are totally illegible, but it's worth a look, with a magnifying glass in good light. A six digit number and I'm guessing the first digit would be 2, assuming it's from a 38 SPL. 32-20s had the same grips in that time frame, but the serial numbers were different.

Neat old revolver, in any case.

Allan