Interchanging Brass From Rifle to Rifle, Standard Practice or Taboo?

[Duckford]

As I'm collecting brass around the front porch after shooting during the winter, I'm finding quite a bit of 7.62 NATO that escaped my brass catchers and got lost into the snow. The brass is, of course, so filthy it has to be cleaned and after a dip in the sonic cleaner I can still tell my PTR fired brass from the remaining flute signature, but the signs on the brass to distinguish the M1a and FAL brass is gone. Which leads me to an old issue....

From what I've heard and read some people think that once a piece of rifle brass is used in a rifle, it should NEVER be fired in a different rifle ever. Reasons seemed to be centered around accuracy to some degree, but also hints that fire forming cases might somehow make them dangerous in other chambers. Yet buying up military spent brass has been long common, yet people take home spent brass from the range, people buy "once fired" brass that might be twice or thrice fired. Is it much ado of nothing, or one of those minor details worth highly considering?

Since I can segregate my PTR brass easily I'll continue to do that, but some of the other brass is so similar after the wash I'm tempted to just load them as a same batch (offhand rapid fire practice is waht they are used for, no need for super accurate loads) and fire them from either my FAL or M1a respectively. Unless there is a very good reason I'm overlooking. I've read that super light powder puff loads can eventually distort rifle brass, so my lead rifle loads all have separate brass for that purpose. Am I making a big mistake on mixing brass from two battle rifles?

 

[growr]

No mistake at all.....make sure that they are fully sized and trimmed...you are good to go.

Randy

 

[Krogen]

I'd agree that if cases are properly sized and trimmed there's no concern in switching among rifles.

Now that PTR is a different situation; at least for me. I don't bother to reload for mine. Instead, I shoot steel case ammo in it. Not only does it launch cases into low earth orbit, but those I manage to find are disfigured by the chamber flutes. Opinions vary about reloading "fluted brass" but I choose not to.

 

[robertrwalsh]

Hard core precision rifle shooters prefer to keep brass with a particular weapon from what I hear. For others it is of no consequence.

 

[Duckford]

I'd agree that if cases are properly sized and trimmed there's no concern in switching among rifles.

Now that PTR is a different situation; at least for me. I don't bother to reload for mine. Instead, I shoot steel case ammo in it. Not only does it launch cases into low earth orbit, but those I manage to find are disfigured by the chamber flutes. Opinions vary about reloading "fluted brass" but I choose not to.

So far my PTR cases have worked fine for my M80ish reloads, no problem yet in the gun. Sometimes the rim gets a bit roughed up and this makes it a little difficult to get into the shell holder, but that gun just eats anything once you've got it loaded. Flutes seem superficial, no problem from that. But I had to quit using my big Tupperwear tub as my brass catcher because the gun would hurl the brass so hard it would bend case mouths and dent bodies. Straightened out the mouths with a Lee universal flaring die piece and got the chewed up brass to work, I'll be keeping notes as I go through lots to see how long they will last.

I've been thinking of going steel in it again, my C93 only eats steel because of the bolt gap and I'm too lazy to change it, and the PTR shouldn't have any problems with it. I've been moving to brass ever since I read up on Lucky Gunner's steel case study about burning out barrels, but then again they were hammering those steel jacket bullets through hot barrels at high rate of fire; this may not apply to my style of shooting. I can't reload M80 any cheaper than I can purchase steel. Maybe I should reserve the brass for the other guns (DSA recommends no steel case, but they might be playing safe) and just not worry about a barrel I MIGHT kill at 5k rounds.

Lot of work to produce regular plinko grade rounds at the same price I can buy steel. I suppose "do steel jackets kill barrels appreciabily" is another thread subject entirely.

 

[rockquarry]

You would likely need an extremely accurate rifle, like a benchrest gun to see much, if any, difference. I have four old .222s that I've had for a long time, three Sakos and a Remington. One of the Sakos has a slightly tighter chamber than the other guns, so I resize the brass only to the point where a loaded round chambers with a bit of effort. Fits fine in the others guns. All the rifles are capable of groups in the 3/4" and smaller range, even if I'm unable to shoot such groups every time.

Same for three old Model 70 Winchesters in .30-06.

Where one might run into problems is if there is a big difference in chamber dimensions between two rifles. Sized enough to fit a minimal chamber, there could be headspacing problems with such ammo fired in a maximum-dimensioned chamber, possibly resulting in case head separation.

As for a semi-auto, it might be necessary to full-length size everything. Don't know if I'd want to swap brass between a semi-auto and bolt-action. This would require some experimentation.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Will swithing rifles affect the ammo's performance?

A lot of the comparison on what is accurate has to do with what various opinions are, and the type or power of your optics, and distances involved.

I know that in the 80's, the Ohio NG rifle team had some shooters that with match M-14's with match sights and match ammo could do 10 shot 1-1.5" groups @ 200 yards (I think that is pretty darn good!) That is in position shooting.

From a rest on a solid bench I have bolt action 223's and 308's that will do dime size groups at 200 yards. While nice and somewhat impressive looking, I was only doing a good job. A fantastic groups under the circumstances, would be a group where the outside is measured,and the diameter of the bullet is subtracted. The 5 shot group size should read something that starts .0 or maybe .1! (I used to produce these on occasion, but I believe the eyes are a little weak, and the muscles a little shaky now)

It only takes 3 good things to produce these type groups. 1) A good rifle w/good sights or good scopes, 2) good ammo, and 3) a good shooter! (Good weather is helpful but not necessary!)

Number 2: Good ammo, weather factory or handloaded is determined by consistency and concentricity (No wobble as it rolls across glass). Brass fired only in one good gun then Neck Sized, was the old standard to achieve concentricity (and still works). But some of us have a thing about ammo not fitting a rifle chambered for that round. So I Full Length all my ammo! It will fit and fire in any rifle with that chamber! I often only size the neck 2/3 of the length for concentricity, I also use competition seating dies That seat the bullet on the same axis as the case. (if you thought that was a given, you will be surprised how far off things have become.) This is a compromise, Bench Rest chambers .002" diameter larger than the sized case are the best, but don't always work in the field.

Consistency, is a factor of exact duplication of components from one round to the next. So if all your bullets, primers, powder charges and cases are the exact same, they will perform the exact same in one rifle. The next gun may OR may not like that combination. (For example of not liking something, IMR 4064 is reported to be the best 308 Win powder. I have had 12 rifles in the last 40 years in 308, not one of them liked 4064!) My rifles like Varget and they like IMR 3031. So your award winning ammo may not shoot well in my rifle! Or mine in yours! BUT 12 in a row is way outside the bell curve!

Ivan

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

LOTS of BS out there. My 223 works in all of my .223 rifles. My 30/06 works in all my 06's. Multiple reloads on every case. So someone sold you a line of bovine excretement.

 

[rockquarry]

I guess no one, including me, has explained this is in a simple manner.

Keeping brass separate for a particular rifle hurts nothing. Also, it's possible you may see an accuracy improvement (over brass fired in more than one rifle) and extended case life, but don't expect either. Anyone serious about this must experiment.

 

[Twoboxer]

One near certainty is that the chambers of your various rifles each differ from the others. If you are sizing all this brass in the same way, it can't be optimal for every rifle, or for the brass.

Another certainty is that your brass is from different manufacturers and/or lots. Therefore the likelihood that the same powder charge is optimal for each effective chamber size, for every round, is low.

Finally when sized in the same way, some brass will be worked more than others.

Precision shooters wouldn't use those practices because consistency is fundamental to them.

Whether any of these things will affect your brass life (slightly if at all) or your results is uncertain.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I started reloading about 47 years ago. I spent several years obsessing over every detail, including "fire forming", "neck sizing", and other technical details that are probably of more interest to bench rest shooters than they will ever be to hunters or sporting shooters.

In the meantime I have owned at least 20 rifles in .30-06 caliber, and I have loaded at least 10,000 rounds for use in "service rifle" category (M1, '03 Springfield, Johnson, etc), all using the same brass processed the same way (full-length resizing, trimmed to length, etc), and the same bullets seated to the same COL.

In addition to the military rifles mentioned I have used .30-06 in a couple of sporting rifles while hunting Colorado mule deer and elk, and a few other edible critters. Process the ammo the same way for all rifles, and the results have always been satisfactory.

I suppose if I were a top ranked contender for bench rest shooting I might pay more attention to all the little details. But I'm not in that league so I just do what I need to do so I have ammo that functions properly in any rifle appropriately chambered. So far that has kept me satisfied with target grouping and meat in the freezer.

About 20 years ago I bought one of the H&K G3 rifles in 7.62 caliber with the fluted chamber. First time I picked up my brass I started wondering about how to deal with that. Found out that normal full-length resizing and processing was all it took to make everything work properly in the G3, M1-A, or the FN-FAL.

 

[Ackley1952]

Mike when you stick a hull, and you will. Remember your words !!use the hydraulic method with cleaning rod and patch it’ll probably get it loose

 

[Nevada Ed]

For accuracy bolt actions...... neck size.

Any other system needs a full sizeing and my blessing.

 

[andyo5]

I have two 30-06 rifles. One is a modern Remington 700, the other is a 1936 vintage Model 1903A1. The 1903 was rebarreled in 1942, and whoever did the job cut the rear of the chamber slightly oversize (by 0.001"). Many cases fired in that M1903 will not chamber in the Remington, even after resizing. The area in question is just ahead of the rim and apparently is not affected by resizing. So I use separate cases for the two rifles. Different headstamps. I have heard that this is not uncommon.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Mike when you stick a hull, and you will. Remember your words !!use the hydraulic method with cleaning rod and patch it’ll probably get it loose

Started reloading for rifles, handguns and shotgun in 1972.......I HAVE NEVER stuck a loaded round in a chamber. If you full length resize/trim and seat projectile to proper length....You never will. Only sloppy reloading practices cause this.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I started reloading about 47 years ago. I spent several years obsessing over every detail, including "fire forming", "neck sizing", and other technical details that are probably of more interest to bench rest shooters than they will ever be to hunters or sporting shooters.

In the meantime I have owned at least 20 rifles in .30-06 caliber, and I have loaded at least 10,000 rounds for use in "service rifle" category (M1, '03 Springfield, Johnson, etc), all using the same brass processed the same way (full-length resizing, trimmed to length, etc), and the same bullets seated to the same COL.

In addition to the military rifles mentioned I have used .30-06 in a couple of sporting rifles while hunting Colorado mule deer and elk, and a few other edible critters. Process the ammo the same way for all rifles, and the results have always been satisfactory.

I suppose if I were a top ranked contender for bench rest shooting I might pay more attention to all the little details. But I'm not in that league so I just do what I need to do so I have ammo that functions properly in any rifle appropriately chambered. So far that has kept me satisfied with target grouping and meat in the freezer.

About 20 years ago I bought one of the H&K G3 rifles in 7.62 caliber with the fluted chamber. First time I picked up my brass I started wondering about how to deal with that. Found out that normal full-length resizing and processing was all it took to make everything work properly in the G3, M1-A, or the FN-FAL.

x2........Lobo.......You have seen the wolf.

 

[AManWearingAHat]

No problems. Only reason I keep brass paired to rifles is when I neck size. After it goes through the FL sizer, the brass and the rifle don't care which goes where.

 

[Imissedagain]

For our 5.56/223 Colt ARs we have used RCBS SB dies since ‘79, brass is not specific to each rifle...... and different headstamps are not an issue.
Bottle neck cases are neck sized and kept separate for each gun which includes Bolt and No.1 rifles.
Straight wall rifle cases as in 357/44/45, that go with pistols as well, are not gun specific.

Will be adding one of the following flat shooting calibers .....
30-06/308/338/375 as hunting with fishing rods won’t harvest MEAT.

Our one 458WinMag, like a seaworthy vessel, can handle anything ....but the crew occasionally flinches.
If I get another I’ll most likely load rounds that are useable in both.

Fortunately the rifle specific rounds loaded for a recently sold bolt gun did not chamber in the No.1V rifle but ran fine in the Colt.

 

[Duckford]

A bit off my original topic, but not to start a new thread, I'm going to be doing some testing of my M80-esque handloads tomorrow with the chronograph. Rounds seem to work fine in all three rifles so far, hit the target in offhand rapid fire, only cycling issue is that it won't always lock the bolt back on the FAL. What is the velocity range that it might hurt the M1a? What are signs to look for so that its not too cool of a round for the M1a and potentially damage it? Anything to be looking for?

 

[SMSgt]

There are "some" advantages to keeping one case to one gun, but those advantages are pretty minute in the overall scheme of the regular shooter.