Interesting 5" Pre-27 357 Magnum

[Doc44]

The "alphabet mainspring project" was instituted by S&W in the mid-1950s as an attempt at improving the single and double action pull of their 45 Target models. The springs were made in the shape of a W and a U. The project was deemed a failure and only a few revolvers are found with those springs today.

Photo shows a 1955 45 Target with a "W" mainspring.

Bill

 

[DARE]

Richard, congratulations on a very interesting gun. I would like to know more about the "RKmesa initiation." I have some Ren Wax, please describe the cleaning and light polish operations including any products that are used.

Never heard about a U mainspring, so thank you for that. Rusty parrot mentioned a W mainspring. Have not heard of that either. Thank you Rusty.

Bill Cross mentioned the "alphabet mainspring project" instituted by S&W in the mid-50s and I definitely never heard of that. Thank you Bill.

Usually learn something here. This thread is over the top. Thanks to all that added to my knowledge.

 

[jcelect]

U Main spring?

Richard
An outstanding find and in great shape! I noticed your gun was cut and has the adjustment screw for a flat main spring. In Bill's W main spring gun, the frame is cut but does not have the strain screw for a flat main spring. It would appear, the factory was experimenting with these springs on a standard made frames and not making any changes to the frame to accommodate a strain screw on either the U or W spring system!
jcelect

 

[CH4]

The "alphabet mainspring project" was instituted by S&W in the mid-1950s as an attempt at improving the single and double action pull of their 45 Target models. The springs were made in the shape of a W and a U. The project was deemed a failure and only a few revolvers are found with those springs today.

Photo shows a 1955 45 Target with a "W" mainspring.

Bill

Besides the different spring, what’s different under the side plate?

 

[Truckman]

Besides the different spring, what’s different under the side plate?

And that's the only N-frame I know of without a strain screw...I wonder if it even has a hole?......Ben

 

[Doc44]

The hole for the screw is there .

Bill

 

[RKmesa]

Here is the pre-27 with the side plate off and like Ralph remembered, the U Mainspring also acts as the trigger rebound spring. And it appears that the strain screw is just there to plug the hole in the frame.

 

[DARE]

Possible that the bobbed hammer was part of the improved double-action project.
One of the things my dad liked about Dan Wesson revolvers was that the hammer arc was designed to not move the gun during hammer fall.
Could be that with bobbed hammer the S&W moved less during hammer fall.

 

[rct269]

Richard, congratulations on a very interesting gun. I would like to know more about the "RKmesa initiation." I have some Ren Wax, please describe the cleaning and light polish operations including any products that are used.

Never heard about a U mainspring, so thank you for that. Rusty parrot mentioned a W mainspring. Have not heard of that either. Thank you Rusty.

Bill Cross mentioned the "alphabet mainspring project" instituted by S&W in the mid-50s and I definitely never heard of that. Thank you Bill.

Usually learn something here. This thread is over the top. Thanks to all that added to my knowledge.

Adding a wee bit more to your knowledge, the "Ren Wax" folks have an EXCELLENT cleaner (used by museums world wide)---called PRE-LIM. Among other things, it also removes invisible rust from "Satin Blue" S&W finishes. The "invisible" aspect applies to the guns---you never saw any rust on them (due to the nature of the surface----irregular compared to Bright Blue), but there it is on your rag---never mind you never saw it before!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Retired W4]

The trigger rebound portion of that spring does not look very efficient. How well does it work?

 

[mikepriwer]

Richard et al

The only gun I have with a 'bobbed' hammer is McGiverns 2 7/8" .38 target. I don't have any information about this hammer. After McGivern received it, he sent it back to Doug Wesson because it had fixed sights, which he did not want. He described the sights as "being as useful as bumps on a pickel". Wesson took care of having the gun converted to adjustable sights. This first picture is a side-view of the entire gun.

The next picture is a close-up view of the hammer.

The last picture is an attempt at showing the curvature of the surface after the tang was removed.

I do know, from lots of communication between Doug Wesson and Ed McGivern, that he was constantly sending guns back to the factory for one reason or another. This suggests that he did not do this work himself. On the other hand, your gun looks a lot more like what I would expect from the factory. McGivern was always experimenting with one thing or another, so maybe he did do the work.

Regards, Mike Priwer

 

[rct269]

The trigger rebound portion of that spring does not look very efficient. How well does it work?

The totality of the U spring works great! To put it in today's terminology, it works much akin to a "Spring Kit".

That said, I have experience with just one, that marketed under Jerry Miculek's name (and previously by him). I say "previously" only because I tried to find his company (BANG, Inc.), and couldn't. I ended up getting mine from Brownells.

I have no numbers for a U/W spring installation, but Miculek's kit is such that you can have any double action trigger pull you want, although he cautions against going lower than 7 lbs. lest you experience failures to fire-----and recommends Federal ammo/primers at that level.

Mine is set at 7 lbs. and works fine with WW ammo (because I didn't have any Federal), suggesting he's being overly cautious----or my trigger pull gauge is lacking------a distinct possibility---even likely.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[RKmesa]

Richard et al

The only gun I have with a 'bobbed' hammer is McGiverns 2 7/8" .38 target.

Mike:

What a great gun. Thanks for sharing!

I now have two S&Ws with bobbed hammers. The other is one of the earliest 3" RB Combat Magnums (SN K500000) - sent to Walter Walsh and later engraved by Alvin White (I believe that you are familiar with this gun...)

 

[boykinlp]

Larry:

It was a total surprise when I removed the grips. And a fun one at that, as it makes it a unique entry in my collection of 357 Magnums.

Wow, that’s the kind of surprises I like! Mine are usually the “take off the grips and finding NO mainspring”! Just kidding, of course, I will NEVER complain about my luck.
Larry

 

[rct269]

It looks to me like they were having a fire sale on gold when White did that gun!

Either that, or his motto is, "Some's good, more's better, and too much is just right!!"----which is usually reserved for horsepower or money!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[RKmesa]

I would like to know more about the "RKmesa initiation." I have some Ren Wax, please describe the cleaning and light polish operations including any products that are used...

David:

It is pretty basic.

1. I take the cylinder, thumb piece, and grips off, then scrub the exterior (frame, barrel, cylinder and yoke) with an old soft toothbrush and Hoppes 9, and if needed run a bore brush with Hoppes 9 down the barrel and each of the cylinders (followed by a Bore Snake).

2. If I think it needs it, I may also take the side plate off and clean, lube, then reassemble the interiors.

3. If there is any surface rust or spots, I very carefully tackle those with some fine bronze/copper wool and a little oil.

4. I then wipe all the parts dry, and give them a very, very light buff with Flitz (a very small amount applied on an old T-shirt and pressed into the fabric).

5. Next I wipe everything (any Flitz residue) off with an old soft clean T-shirt.

6. Next - I apply a very thin coat of Renaissance Wax with my finger or thumb, let it dry, then buff with a micro-fiber cloth to a shine.

7. I also clean the grips with a clean soft toothbrush and if needed clean the grip screw, escutcheons and medallions with a q-tip lightly damp (almost dry) with Hoppes - then wipe the grips off and may (depending on the desired patina of the grips) polish the smooth parts lightly with a bit of Flitz on the old T-shirt (do not get any Flitz in the checkering).

8. The grips also get a coat of Ren Wax (not in the checkering) and a micro-fiber buff till they shine.

9. Next I lightly lightly oil the moving parts, and reassemble the gun and grips.

10. Lastly and most importantly, once fully assembled, I sit back and admire the beauty that is S&W - this may include a lighted magnifying glass (particularly with engraved guns) and micro-fiber buffing, or spot cleaning (Q-Tip damp (not wet) with Hoppes) any of the places that did not get perfectly clean or may have a bit of the Ren Wax that did not get buffed.

Some may take exception with some (or all) of my process, but it works for me and by the time I'm finished, I have gotten to know every centimeter of the gun.

A little OCD, but part of the fun for me.

 

[CH4]

Here is the pre-27 with the side plate off and like Ralph remembered, the U Mainspring also acts as the trigger rebound spring. And it appears that the strain screw is just there to plug the hole in the frame.

Thanks!
A picture is worth...

 

[DARE]

Richard, much appreciate the information. Will add some of that to my routine. Thanks for taking the time.
Pretty sure it benefited at least a few others.

 

[DARE]

Here is my recently acquired 44 Magnum now "initiated."

 

[BC38]

That U spring is pretty cool. This is the first time I have ever seen one or even heard of one. I've seen the W spring before, and it just seems overly complicated to manufacture.
I wonder why they didn't continue using the U spring once it was tried and found to work. It eliminates one part (rebound spring) and looks like it should work just fine.
As Arty Johnson would say...
Veeeely INTerestink!