Interesting experience at a "no firearms allowed" restaurant

[Yiogo]

Speaking with the manager is a great idea.
Crossing a "No firearms allowed!" sign is not something I would do, in fact, I do not.
Such signs carry the force of law in my state which matters to me on several levels.
If I felt unsafe I would not go in nor would I ever be in that area.
Yiogo

 

[Bartman3562]

My thoughts on obeying no cc sign:
I would rather be alive facing a charge of carrying where I shouldn't, than dead and everyone saying, what a shame he died, his gun was in his car in the parking lot.

 

[hangnoose]

BLANKET STEREOTYPING?

Anti's as well as pro gun people are made up of all types, from genius to idiot and everywhere in between on both sides. Those that call ALL non pro gun people "sheeple or afraid" are assuming they know what goes on in the minds of millions of people they don't know from Adam. THIS sounds stupid to me and insults what my Mother had good reason to believe in. Show some respect for others & maybe we won't be viewed as the knuckle dragging Neanderthal, it's all about me stereotype.

 

[HCH]

I ended the conversation by telling him that I can legally carry in his state, and that had I been armed I would have obeyed his sign and taken the family to another restaurant. That didn't seem to faze him at all.

So you ate there anyway?

 

[11B Lifer]

Thank you for making the effort! When I was shopping for a motorcycle-the state had just passed their CCW law-so a number of bike shops posted signs No Concealed Weapons- I told the managers that they lost a potential customer-and that my wife wouldn't enter the store because she wasn't going to leave her gun in the truck and that they obviously didn't want me in there. The excuse was always that it was a family friendly shop. This chain of shops took those signs down-I told the dealer where I bought my bike that he "triggered" the sale by that action. Every little bit of political activism helps! All the active duty and retired folks I ride with pack firearms-That means they can have some impact if they boy cot-and there are some sizeable motorcycle groups that do civic functions that are of great benefit to the community-We now need to help Illinois!

 

[Joebrewer2000]

ignorance s bliss as they would like to think until their life is on the line

 

[bgrone]

No gun signs

Felix & Oscar's in Des Moines has a sign that reads "No visible weapons allowed" I have wondered where they stood on invisible weapons.

Jim in Iowa

 

[vito]

To HCH: I was there with my son to pick up a take-out order, so yes, I still paid for the ordered food and took it with me. I might have walked away, leaving the restaurant with the food ready to go as a more focused statement, but the food was ordered by my son from his phone, and had I done that I doubt that he and his family would have been able to order from them in the future. I tried to show my displeasure with their policy at the time, and followed it up with contact to the owner via email, for whatever it was worth.

 

[Launcher]

No gun policies also makes the business insurance cheaper. Lowering operating cost makes higher profits.

I personally would take money from whoever decides to shop at my store. My policy would be no open carry. If it's concealed, keep it concealed. When people start shooting I have no control, and a threat of a lifelong ban from my store won't even be considered if you're defending your life or family.

the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson

In Wisconsin immunity from liability is written into the law for business owners who do not post no weapons.

Therefore posting increases liability for business owners who do post.

I would think that most insurance companies would not lower premiums for a policy that increases liability to their clients.

 

[vito]

I wonder what the insurance industry says about posting, i.e., do they consider their risk to be higher for places that allow concealed carry or places that prohibit concealed carry? I have no doubt that the anti-gun press would give maximum publicity to any incident where a licensed concealed carry holder improperly used a gun within a business, and since I have not heard of such incidents, I can only assume it rarely happens. With that being the case, I would also assume that the risk of liability to the business owner would be lower when concealed carry is allowed. But my assumptions may not be what the insurance companies see as reality. It would be interesting if someone on this forum who works in the insurance industry could clarify this.

 

[hangnoose]

"I HAVE NOT HEARD OF SUCH INSTANCES"

It happens. The football player in a nightclub whose pistol slipped from his waistband, down his leg & went off when he tried to grab it (not sure if he had a ccl), to loaded guns found in restrooms that legal carriers placed on the TP holder while doing their business, etc. etc. Just look at many of the AD'S/ND'S on u-tube.

 

[blujax01]

I wish I could find it, but there is a piece written about Sheepdogs VS wolves and the Sheeple's feelings about both.

They are afraid of the wolf because of the sharp fangs and claws and the ability to commit acts of violence towards them.

But they are ALSO afraid of the sheepdog because he also has sharp claws and fangs and can also commit acts of violence (against the wolves of society), even though the sheepdog would NEVER harm the sheeple and the sheepdog is charged with protecting the very sheeple that fear and are sometimes revolted by him.

They don't understand that the fangs and claws of the sheepdog are there for their defense, they only see fangs and claws and fear them because that's what sheeple do.

Pity the sheeple, they live their lives in fear and willl almost never change.

Don, your analysis is spot-on and I heard the words to back up that thought the other day:

Q: "What is it about guns that you don't like?"

A: "They scare me. I do not like guns and it makes me feel unsafe when I'm around people who do."

Now, in this day and age, the phrase "it makes me feel unsafe" is all it takes to get the nonsensical zero-tolerance ball rolling.

 

[hotrod150]

.........I was at a gun store recently looking at a gun. I pulled mine out to compare it. After maybe 30 seconds the employee asked if I could holster mine since it was loaded and out. ...

That seems like a good way to get shot, esp if the place has ever been robbed, or at least get some people pretty agitated. I had occasion once to want to see how my gun fit a holster at a LGS, but I asked the store clerk if I could test-fit it before "whipping it out" and immediately unloading it (in accordance with common sense and as per his request).
Carrying concealed is one thing, but IMHO pulling your gun goes right past open carry into displaying or brandishing.

 

[SgtLumpy]

...Now, in this day and age, the phrase "it makes me feel unsafe" is all it takes to get the nonsensical zero-tolerance ball rolling.

In all fairness to those who I probably disagree with (those people who feel unsafe around guns), isn't the reason we choose to carry because "It makes me feel safe"?


Sgt Lumpy

 

[3strokes]

Hmm... I would not be able to join a Nudist Colony, nor visit a Nude Beach, because I would not be able to Conceal Carry. I have no orifice large enough to conceal my carry piece.
Wait a sec... couldn't that be considered discrimination of some sort??

Did you consider derringers?

Just kidding. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

[3strokes]

Don, your analysis is spot-on and I heard the words to back up that thought the other day:

Q: "What is it about guns that you don't like?"

A: "They scare me. I do not like guns and it makes me feel unsafe when I'm around people who do."

Now, in this day and age, the phrase "it makes me feel unsafe" is all it takes to get the nonsensical zero-tolerance ball rolling.

Whereas, I, would feel safe in an establishment that is not posting a sign saying, "No guns allowed here. Attention bad guys, you may attack this place and go on a killing spree ---- or hold everyone up at gunpoint--- and no one here will be able to defend themselves. Enjoy a safe hold-up."

 

[Capt.Jim]

Don't the majority of restaurant shootings occur when a customer's gun goes off accidentally while he's enjoying a plate of wings?
Sgt Lumpy

I guess you're not following the news.
Don't you know the movie theater shooting in Aurora, CO caused by a concealed carry permit holder while he is reaching for his popcorn and accidentally killed 12 people and injured 58 others...

Also Virginia Tech shooting caused by another concealed carry permit holder student while he is taking his laptop out of his backpack which ended up him killing 32 other people and fatally injuring 23 others...

How many more innocent people must be lost before you understand that the main problem is those pesky people with their legally obtained permits carrying concealed weapons?

Isn't it easier and more economical to invest in signs as the most effective solution to stop every horrible situation?
C'mon, how can you be against this greatest logical accomplishment?

Imagine the signs below;

- NO GUNS ALLOWED.... Everywhere these signs will stop mass shootings, robberies and all evil things involving a gun...

- NO ACCIDENTS PLEASE @roadside bilboards.... These will stop every traffic accidents imaginable.

- ONLY A+ AVERAGE IS ACCEPTED.....will save our education system...

- NO ILLEGAL ENTRY.... at our borders will solve the illegal immigration problem...

See, how really easy it is?
I guess you're not thinking clearly...
I wonder if you're one of those pesky CCW guys?

 

[SgtLumpy]

Imagine the signs below;

- NO GUNS ALLOWED.... Everywhere these signs will stop mass shootings, robberies and all evil things involving a gun...

- NO ACCIDENTS PLEASE @roadside bilboards.... These will stop every traffic accidents imaginable.

- ONLY A+ AVERAGE IS ACCEPTED.....will save our education system...

- NO ILLEGAL ENTRY.... at our borders will solve the illegal immigration problem...

I've posted here before about the sign on the door at a local convenience store "NO SHOPLIFTING".

Sgt Lumpy

 

[dougb1946]

I wish I could find it, but there is a piece written about Sheepdogs VS wolves and the Sheeple's feelings about both.

They are afraid of the wolf because of the sharp fangs and claws and the ability to commit acts of violence towards them.

But they are ALSO afraid of the sheepdog because he also has sharp claws and fangs and can also commit acts of violence (against the wolves of society), even though the sheepdog would NEVER harm the sheeple and the sheepdog is charged with protecting the very sheeple that fear and are sometimes revolted by him.

They don't understand that the fangs and claws of the sheepdog are there for their defense, they only see fangs and claws and fear them because that's what sheeple do.

Pity the sheeple, they live their lives in fear and willl almost never change.

Never did like the "sheep-sheepdog-wolf " analogy.

The analogy seems to fail when you consider that a good sheepdog is well trained and extremely obedient, answering the masters every command with the proper learned response, and is probably neutered to boot.

People don't always respond the way you expect, and carrying a gun doesn't turn a "sheep" into a "sheepdog". The quiet unarmed man might just be the one who runs into the burning building to save the puppy, might be the man who uses the golf club to chase the attacking dog away, might just be the one who steps between his family and danger and beats the snot out of the BG.

The man who goes to work every day to provide for his family and never brags or threatens any one should probably not be provoked unless you are very sure of what they have done and seen and survived. If you question this, someday catch the military channel when they are interviewing WW2 vets and one of the "sheep" humbly explains his walk through Europe starting at the beach in France, or his Pacific cruise that involved stops at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. They talk and look like "sheep", but when called on, "wolves" ran from them or died.

 

[mstuhr]

Signs

Howdy,
Heck, when they ask me if I saw the sign I just tell them I have shoes and a shirt on and it didn't say anything about pants?
Don't get me started on concealed carry. If it was up to me there wouldn't be a permit issued anywhere in America.... You shouldn't need one.
Thanks
Mike

 

[05CarbonDRZ]

Welcome to Madison Buddy,This is the exact reason I do not CCW.We have the "right" to but as soon as a problem arises and you even pull your weapon YOU will be in jail.Heaven forbid you actually shoot someone trying to harm you or your family because you will be locked up and have to post a huge bail and pay ton's of attorney fees.

 

[Mydogmax]

It's their store/business, respect it. If you don't like it go elsewhere. What are you trying to accomplish other than to make the anti's more anti or the middle of the road people turn anti. Not a well thought out move or post.

 

[shouldazagged]

Never did like the "sheep-sheepdog-wolf " analogy.

The analogy seems to fail when you consider that a good sheepdog is well trained and extremely obedient, answering the masters every command with the proper learned response, and is probably neutered to boot.

People don't always respond the way you expect, and carrying a gun doesn't turn a "sheep" into a "sheepdog".

Your post in its entirety said it better than I could.

 

[Harkrader]

Vito:
Wow! I've had exactly the same issue in Madison which, I'm sure you know, is 12 miles of fantasy surrounded by reality.
The manager of a place we often visited was not in the least interested in facts. His customers felt safer, he said, knowing "no one around them had guns," and he did not want to be confused by facts.
Our son is also a LEO. One of the things he is happy about is that he can ignore those signs. He knows I won't enter those places because there are plenty of others.
You may recall that for most of a year after CCW was passed, Applebees restaurants had anti-self defense signs. At first, it was only ones in the SE WI area, I think. I was going to Marshfield about every 3 months and the Applebees there did not post a sign until a number of months later. I complained first to that one, then to the one that is less than 2 miles from my house. With entire family we make at least 8 adults. I told the manager here that he would no longer be getting our money. He said it was a decision at the corporate franchise owner level. He seemed very agitated while talking to me. I had told him that I was complying with his sign. I was just about ready to send them a letter - finding a responsible party was difficult - when they took the signs down. That pleases my family because we really like Applebees.
I give up on Madison. Too fascist left.
I am not Republican, but HAIL Governor Walker!

 

[Harkrader]

Ignoring the anti-self defense sign in WI

BrianE and JimmyJ:
In Wisconsin, the law is written such that it is assumed you saw the sign and therefore deliberately violated it.

 

[Harkrader]

Like someone else who posted here, I went to the credit union in SE WI where I had personal and business accounts for years, Landmark CU, and withdrew all my money and moved it to a bank that does not have an anti-self defense policy. The president of Landmark was also unconvinced by facts. He just didn't want guns in his CUs. I wish I knew if or how many others did that to them.

 

[Arney]

Madison is "dead head liberal"

This past week I had an interesting experience while visiting my son in Madison, WI. We went out for dinner, and as we entered the restaurant I saw the "No firearms allowed" sign in the window (I was not carrying), so I asked to speak with the manager.

I asked him why the sign was there, since he surely knew that a criminal, intent on doing harm, was not going to obey the sign, and that all the sign accomplishes is to discourage lawfully carrying patrons from being prepared to defend themselves and others should the need arise. He seemed really confused, stating several times that the sign was intended to keep guns out of the restaurant, thus making it "safer" for everyone. I again asked him if he really believed that the sign would stop a criminal, and he hemmed and hawed and then said, "well, having a no gun policy makes the customers feel safer, knowing that the person sitting at the next table is not carrying a loaded gun". So I again asked him, what is more important, actual safety, i.e., where law abiding citizens are able to stop a criminal, or the false perception of safety of having everyone make believe that a sign stops thugs were coming into the restaurant? He just kept repeating, it makes customers feel safer.

I also asked him if he was aware that most of the multiple-shooting incidents that have occurred in recent years have taken place is supposedly safe, "gun-free" zones, and that this might not be a coincidence. Maybe criminals actively choose such settings, hoping to be able to create mayhem unopposed. He did not respond to this comment at all.

I ended the conversation by telling him that I can legally carry in his state, and that had I been armed I would have obeyed his sign and taken the family to another restaurant. That didn't seem to faze him at all.

What was really discouraging about the whole incident was that my son, who is in law enforcement, seems to agree with this manager that having a "no guns allowed" policy makes him, and likely other customers "feel" safer. Amazing and sad.

Enough said when you said Madison Wi..... they just don't get it and as you can see its hopeless to try even with logic and reason.

 

[Arney]

You all out of staters do not know that Madison Wi. is like the liberal capital of the entire US. Maybe the state of California would surpass this title, but thats a state and this is a city.

 

[Don 73]

Perhaps my Sheepdog analogy has too many blanket stereotypes in it, but it was the best way I knew of to describe the differences of some people.

I'm not by any means categorizing anyone as a sheep, unless they prove by their actions that they are one. My grandfather was against guns, but actually stood up to an armed carjacker demanding that my grandmother be 'let go' before any "negotiations." In no way would I classify him as a sheep.

Those folks who were mentioned that you would think to be meek and mild, yet slogged their way through WWII (and other conflicts) beating the 'wolves' and those who appear to be quiet and unassuming, yet would run into danger themselves to save others are not sheep. Calling people like this a 'sheep' would be like poking a sleeping bear and not expecting to get mauled.

Trying to classify people as either sheep, sheepdogs or wolves is too simple ... people are complex. As has been said, having a gun does not make you a sheepdog, and NOT having one does not make you a sheep. People are what they are and that has to be decided on an individual basis.

 

[Protected One]

What I find interesting (and ironic) about this whole situation is that the managers spoken of here say, "Their customers feel safer knowing that there are no guns in the restaraunt".
Question: How do they KNOW there are no guns there? I'm inclined to believe that some legal carriers are CCW there, and certainly, no person with "ill-intent" is going to obey their little sign. So, again, how do they know?

Truth is, they DON"T know! Yet having the "illusion" of safety is preferable for many, over the "actual" safety provided by the company of legally armed citizens.