Interesting experience at a "no firearms allowed" restaurant

[05CarbonDRZ]

Welcome to Madison Buddy,This is the exact reason I do not CCW.We have the "right" to but as soon as a problem arises and you even pull your weapon YOU will be in jail.Heaven forbid you actually shoot someone trying to harm you or your family because you will be locked up and have to post a huge bail and pay ton's of attorney fees.

 

[Mydogmax]

It's their store/business, respect it. If you don't like it go elsewhere. What are you trying to accomplish other than to make the anti's more anti or the middle of the road people turn anti. Not a well thought out move or post.

 

[shouldazagged]

Never did like the "sheep-sheepdog-wolf " analogy.

The analogy seems to fail when you consider that a good sheepdog is well trained and extremely obedient, answering the masters every command with the proper learned response, and is probably neutered to boot.

People don't always respond the way you expect, and carrying a gun doesn't turn a "sheep" into a "sheepdog".

Your post in its entirety said it better than I could.

 

[Harkrader]

Vito:
Wow! I've had exactly the same issue in Madison which, I'm sure you know, is 12 miles of fantasy surrounded by reality.
The manager of a place we often visited was not in the least interested in facts. His customers felt safer, he said, knowing "no one around them had guns," and he did not want to be confused by facts.
Our son is also a LEO. One of the things he is happy about is that he can ignore those signs. He knows I won't enter those places because there are plenty of others.
You may recall that for most of a year after CCW was passed, Applebees restaurants had anti-self defense signs. At first, it was only ones in the SE WI area, I think. I was going to Marshfield about every 3 months and the Applebees there did not post a sign until a number of months later. I complained first to that one, then to the one that is less than 2 miles from my house. With entire family we make at least 8 adults. I told the manager here that he would no longer be getting our money. He said it was a decision at the corporate franchise owner level. He seemed very agitated while talking to me. I had told him that I was complying with his sign. I was just about ready to send them a letter - finding a responsible party was difficult - when they took the signs down. That pleases my family because we really like Applebees.
I give up on Madison. Too fascist left.
I am not Republican, but HAIL Governor Walker!

 

[Harkrader]

Ignoring the anti-self defense sign in WI

BrianE and JimmyJ:
In Wisconsin, the law is written such that it is assumed you saw the sign and therefore deliberately violated it.

 

[Harkrader]

Like someone else who posted here, I went to the credit union in SE WI where I had personal and business accounts for years, Landmark CU, and withdrew all my money and moved it to a bank that does not have an anti-self defense policy. The president of Landmark was also unconvinced by facts. He just didn't want guns in his CUs. I wish I knew if or how many others did that to them.

 

[Arney]

Madison is "dead head liberal"

This past week I had an interesting experience while visiting my son in Madison, WI. We went out for dinner, and as we entered the restaurant I saw the "No firearms allowed" sign in the window (I was not carrying), so I asked to speak with the manager.

I asked him why the sign was there, since he surely knew that a criminal, intent on doing harm, was not going to obey the sign, and that all the sign accomplishes is to discourage lawfully carrying patrons from being prepared to defend themselves and others should the need arise. He seemed really confused, stating several times that the sign was intended to keep guns out of the restaurant, thus making it "safer" for everyone. I again asked him if he really believed that the sign would stop a criminal, and he hemmed and hawed and then said, "well, having a no gun policy makes the customers feel safer, knowing that the person sitting at the next table is not carrying a loaded gun". So I again asked him, what is more important, actual safety, i.e., where law abiding citizens are able to stop a criminal, or the false perception of safety of having everyone make believe that a sign stops thugs were coming into the restaurant? He just kept repeating, it makes customers feel safer.

I also asked him if he was aware that most of the multiple-shooting incidents that have occurred in recent years have taken place is supposedly safe, "gun-free" zones, and that this might not be a coincidence. Maybe criminals actively choose such settings, hoping to be able to create mayhem unopposed. He did not respond to this comment at all.

I ended the conversation by telling him that I can legally carry in his state, and that had I been armed I would have obeyed his sign and taken the family to another restaurant. That didn't seem to faze him at all.

What was really discouraging about the whole incident was that my son, who is in law enforcement, seems to agree with this manager that having a "no guns allowed" policy makes him, and likely other customers "feel" safer. Amazing and sad.

Enough said when you said Madison Wi..... they just don't get it and as you can see its hopeless to try even with logic and reason.

 

[Arney]

You all out of staters do not know that Madison Wi. is like the liberal capital of the entire US. Maybe the state of California would surpass this title, but thats a state and this is a city.

 

[Don 73]

Perhaps my Sheepdog analogy has too many blanket stereotypes in it, but it was the best way I knew of to describe the differences of some people.

I'm not by any means categorizing anyone as a sheep, unless they prove by their actions that they are one. My grandfather was against guns, but actually stood up to an armed carjacker demanding that my grandmother be 'let go' before any "negotiations." In no way would I classify him as a sheep.

Those folks who were mentioned that you would think to be meek and mild, yet slogged their way through WWII (and other conflicts) beating the 'wolves' and those who appear to be quiet and unassuming, yet would run into danger themselves to save others are not sheep. Calling people like this a 'sheep' would be like poking a sleeping bear and not expecting to get mauled.

Trying to classify people as either sheep, sheepdogs or wolves is too simple ... people are complex. As has been said, having a gun does not make you a sheepdog, and NOT having one does not make you a sheep. People are what they are and that has to be decided on an individual basis.

 

[Protected One]

What I find interesting (and ironic) about this whole situation is that the managers spoken of here say, "Their customers feel safer knowing that there are no guns in the restaraunt".
Question: How do they KNOW there are no guns there? I'm inclined to believe that some legal carriers are CCW there, and certainly, no person with "ill-intent" is going to obey their little sign. So, again, how do they know?

Truth is, they DON"T know! Yet having the "illusion" of safety is preferable for many, over the "actual" safety provided by the company of legally armed citizens.

 

[Protected One]

Welcome to Madison Buddy,This is the exact reason I do not CCW.We have the "right" to but as soon as a problem arises and you even pull your weapon YOU will be in jail.Heaven forbid you actually shoot someone trying to harm you or your family because you will be locked up and have to post a huge bail and pay ton's of attorney fees.

Not true buddy, at least not ALWAYS true. Remember the story about the first Wisconsin ccw holder to use his gun at the Aldi store? It took a year to get his gun back, but he was NEVER charged or locked up.

Side note: I wrote to Aldi Corporate to find out if their policy of "no weapons" (there was a sign posted at the wisc. store) applied to ALL their stores nation wide. Within a week they replied that their stores follow the laws of the state they operate in, and that that sign in Wisc. was to be removed, but had not been done before the shooting occured.
Perhaps a letter to Applebees corporate is in order?

 

[hangnoose]

EVER BEEN TO TRIAL?

Let me just say that having been & found not guilty of brandishing for responding to a perceived threat after being involved in a felony hit & run with injuries, where the career meth dealer in a stolen car was reaching under the seat for "something" you bet I drew & would again. But OMG the 28 hr's in a ice cold holding cell with no medical attention with teeth chattering & a lot of pain, time & money to be found innocent until proven broke was a nightmare & I would gladly hand over anything on my person (grand total of much less than a couple hundred $'s) rather than go through that again. It seems as if SO MANY sheepdogs are just itching to shoot someone. Many of the "sheeple" don't want a sheepdog, so why force it on them? YOU ARE NOT LEO'S! Feel free to protect you and yours, I DO, but that is about it (unless some extenuating circumstances arose). With so many people being issued ccl's I'm more worried about catching one from friendly fire.

 

[Hodgin]

I'm lucky in the sense that "No Guns" signs aren't very prevalent around here. Outside of prohibited places by law, I've never confronted such a sign. I'm not out much but haven't ever had a problem.

I think there are a couple of things that could change this and both depend on the behavior of carriers. First, increased prevalence of open carriers. My guess is that most people in my community would rather not see people openly carrying firearms, especially places frequented by kids. Personally, I've never seen anyone openly carrying other than at gun shops and ranges even though TN allows it. I'm sure there are other places where open carry is not a big deal and it may not be here but I suspect it would be.

The second reason has to do with "accidental discharges." There has been at least 2 or 3 ADs in businesses over the past year in our mid-size town. No one has been injured other than a minor injury to one of the guys whose gun when off, but it certainly created concern.

Business owners have to be assured this type of thing won't happen if we expect them to permit firearms. My safety has to be balanced with the safety of those around me. Consequently, it's my responsible to be safe. An unsafe act not only endangers the lives of those round me but also threatens the safety of others who may not be able to carry due to my actions. The biggest concern I have heard from those opposing carrying laws is not so much the carrying of a gun but rather the risk of an accident. It's hard to argue guns are safe when people hear of these and other accidents.

P.S. In all the cases of AD around here the person wasn't using a holster.

 

[TexasArmed]

Man I sure would hate it if people kept coming up to me and telling me how to run my business.

It's his problem not yours. He can have a sign if he likes and you can eat where you like

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

That is true but then I have the right to tell all my friends how dangerous I think the parking lot is there at that restaurant. And I don't mind discouraging as many folks as I can to eat there at such a dangerous establishment. In Texas that sign would have to be a 30.06 or a 51 % sign for me to comply with it, otherwise I ignore the sign. In fact I prefer to buy from a foreign owned company say Japanese company or Chinese, rather than buy anything at a retail shopping center that has such a sign. Does not cost me anything if those American stores go belly up. They have the right to post the legal signs and I have the right to shop and buy from someone else.

 

[TexasArmed]

It happens. The football player in a nightclub whose pistol slipped from his waistband, down his leg & went off when he tried to grab it (not sure if he had a ccl), to loaded guns found in restrooms that legal carriers placed on the TP holder while doing their business, etc. etc. Just look at many of the AD'S/ND'S on u-tube.

I have never had a negligent discharge with my handguns but then I only carry revolvers.

 

[Neumann]

"I ended the conversation by telling him that I can legally carry in his state, and that had I been armed I would have obeyed his sign and taken the family to another restaurant. That didn't seem to faze him at all. "

Unfortunately, that's the case in the vast majority of business owners' feelings. To them, it's better to lose one gun-carrying customer than dozens of gun-fearing customers.

The owner or manager should know that his policy will be public information, and that in the electronic age, it will be known to hundreds if not thousands of potential customers.

In a practical sense, no-gun signs appeared in many Wisconsin establishments after their concealed carry law was passed. Since that time, about two years, nearly all of those signs have disappeared. Illinois is seeing a rash of postings, due in part to the misguided efforts of the Lt. Governor, and various Cook County politicians. In time, they'll disappear too (the signs, anyway). Why? Because people who spend the time and money for training and licensing are NOT the problem.

In addition to business cards declaring, "No Guns, No Money," I'm all for printing up window stickers with a green circle, declaring "Legal Guns Welcome!"

 

[blujax01]

... I'm all for printing up window stickers with a green circle, declaring "Legal Guns Welcome!"

Like this?

 

[C Broad Arrow]

After 300 years we are back to the Scarlet Letter of Nathaniel Hawthorn.

From a professional point of view, the marketing advantages are enormous to those that embrace the idea of a simple "green dot or circle" in their window.

Those that are in the know will recognize it as an establishment that welcomes gun owners...sort of a secret Mason handshake if you will.

Those not part of the gun culture will just go about their business, buying goods or enjoying the service, without so much as a clue about the envelope of safety that surrounds their stay in the establishment.

From my point of view it is all to the upside for those with the green dot!

 

[The Big D]

Say what?

TexasArmed, kindly provide the linky that affirms your assertion re: "how dangerous" the parking lot is at that location. Thanking you, in advance...

Be safe.

c

That is true but then I have the right to tell all my friends how dangerous I think the parking lot is there at that restaurant. And I don't mind discouraging as many folks as I can to eat there at such a dangerous establishment. In Texas that sign would have to be a 30.06 or a 51 % sign for me to comply with it, otherwise I ignore the sign. In fact I prefer to buy from a foreign owned company say Japanese company or Chinese, rather than buy anything at a retail shopping center that has such a sign. Does not cost me anything if those American stores go belly up. They have the right to post the legal signs and I have the right to shop and buy from someone else.

 

[TexasArmed]

I do not need a link to establish that gun free zones are dangerous. And American owned businesses who endanger my safety do not have an entitlement to my business or my good will.

A gun free zone is a dangerous place just waiting for a crime to happen.