Interesting experience at a "no firearms allowed" restaurant

[Protected One]

Welcome to Madison Buddy,This is the exact reason I do not CCW.We have the "right" to but as soon as a problem arises and you even pull your weapon YOU will be in jail.Heaven forbid you actually shoot someone trying to harm you or your family because you will be locked up and have to post a huge bail and pay ton's of attorney fees.

Not true buddy, at least not ALWAYS true. Remember the story about the first Wisconsin ccw holder to use his gun at the Aldi store? It took a year to get his gun back, but he was NEVER charged or locked up.

Side note: I wrote to Aldi Corporate to find out if their policy of "no weapons" (there was a sign posted at the wisc. store) applied to ALL their stores nation wide. Within a week they replied that their stores follow the laws of the state they operate in, and that that sign in Wisc. was to be removed, but had not been done before the shooting occured.
Perhaps a letter to Applebees corporate is in order?

 

[hangnoose]

EVER BEEN TO TRIAL?

Let me just say that having been & found not guilty of brandishing for responding to a perceived threat after being involved in a felony hit & run with injuries, where the career meth dealer in a stolen car was reaching under the seat for "something" you bet I drew & would again. But OMG the 28 hr's in a ice cold holding cell with no medical attention with teeth chattering & a lot of pain, time & money to be found innocent until proven broke was a nightmare & I would gladly hand over anything on my person (grand total of much less than a couple hundred $'s) rather than go through that again. It seems as if SO MANY sheepdogs are just itching to shoot someone. Many of the "sheeple" don't want a sheepdog, so why force it on them? YOU ARE NOT LEO'S! Feel free to protect you and yours, I DO, but that is about it (unless some extenuating circumstances arose). With so many people being issued ccl's I'm more worried about catching one from friendly fire.

 

[Hodgin]

I'm lucky in the sense that "No Guns" signs aren't very prevalent around here. Outside of prohibited places by law, I've never confronted such a sign. I'm not out much but haven't ever had a problem.

I think there are a couple of things that could change this and both depend on the behavior of carriers. First, increased prevalence of open carriers. My guess is that most people in my community would rather not see people openly carrying firearms, especially places frequented by kids. Personally, I've never seen anyone openly carrying other than at gun shops and ranges even though TN allows it. I'm sure there are other places where open carry is not a big deal and it may not be here but I suspect it would be.

The second reason has to do with "accidental discharges." There has been at least 2 or 3 ADs in businesses over the past year in our mid-size town. No one has been injured other than a minor injury to one of the guys whose gun when off, but it certainly created concern.

Business owners have to be assured this type of thing won't happen if we expect them to permit firearms. My safety has to be balanced with the safety of those around me. Consequently, it's my responsible to be safe. An unsafe act not only endangers the lives of those round me but also threatens the safety of others who may not be able to carry due to my actions. The biggest concern I have heard from those opposing carrying laws is not so much the carrying of a gun but rather the risk of an accident. It's hard to argue guns are safe when people hear of these and other accidents.

P.S. In all the cases of AD around here the person wasn't using a holster.

 

[TexasArmed]

Man I sure would hate it if people kept coming up to me and telling me how to run my business.

It's his problem not yours. He can have a sign if he likes and you can eat where you like

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

That is true but then I have the right to tell all my friends how dangerous I think the parking lot is there at that restaurant. And I don't mind discouraging as many folks as I can to eat there at such a dangerous establishment. In Texas that sign would have to be a 30.06 or a 51 % sign for me to comply with it, otherwise I ignore the sign. In fact I prefer to buy from a foreign owned company say Japanese company or Chinese, rather than buy anything at a retail shopping center that has such a sign. Does not cost me anything if those American stores go belly up. They have the right to post the legal signs and I have the right to shop and buy from someone else.

 

[TexasArmed]

It happens. The football player in a nightclub whose pistol slipped from his waistband, down his leg & went off when he tried to grab it (not sure if he had a ccl), to loaded guns found in restrooms that legal carriers placed on the TP holder while doing their business, etc. etc. Just look at many of the AD'S/ND'S on u-tube.

I have never had a negligent discharge with my handguns but then I only carry revolvers.

 

[Neumann]

"I ended the conversation by telling him that I can legally carry in his state, and that had I been armed I would have obeyed his sign and taken the family to another restaurant. That didn't seem to faze him at all. "

Unfortunately, that's the case in the vast majority of business owners' feelings. To them, it's better to lose one gun-carrying customer than dozens of gun-fearing customers.

The owner or manager should know that his policy will be public information, and that in the electronic age, it will be known to hundreds if not thousands of potential customers.

In a practical sense, no-gun signs appeared in many Wisconsin establishments after their concealed carry law was passed. Since that time, about two years, nearly all of those signs have disappeared. Illinois is seeing a rash of postings, due in part to the misguided efforts of the Lt. Governor, and various Cook County politicians. In time, they'll disappear too (the signs, anyway). Why? Because people who spend the time and money for training and licensing are NOT the problem.

In addition to business cards declaring, "No Guns, No Money," I'm all for printing up window stickers with a green circle, declaring "Legal Guns Welcome!"

 

[blujax01]

... I'm all for printing up window stickers with a green circle, declaring "Legal Guns Welcome!"

Like this?

 

[C Broad Arrow]

After 300 years we are back to the Scarlet Letter of Nathaniel Hawthorn.

From a professional point of view, the marketing advantages are enormous to those that embrace the idea of a simple "green dot or circle" in their window.

Those that are in the know will recognize it as an establishment that welcomes gun owners...sort of a secret Mason handshake if you will.

Those not part of the gun culture will just go about their business, buying goods or enjoying the service, without so much as a clue about the envelope of safety that surrounds their stay in the establishment.

From my point of view it is all to the upside for those with the green dot!

 

[The Big D]

Say what?

TexasArmed, kindly provide the linky that affirms your assertion re: "how dangerous" the parking lot is at that location. Thanking you, in advance...

Be safe.

c

That is true but then I have the right to tell all my friends how dangerous I think the parking lot is there at that restaurant. And I don't mind discouraging as many folks as I can to eat there at such a dangerous establishment. In Texas that sign would have to be a 30.06 or a 51 % sign for me to comply with it, otherwise I ignore the sign. In fact I prefer to buy from a foreign owned company say Japanese company or Chinese, rather than buy anything at a retail shopping center that has such a sign. Does not cost me anything if those American stores go belly up. They have the right to post the legal signs and I have the right to shop and buy from someone else.

 

[TexasArmed]

I do not need a link to establish that gun free zones are dangerous. And American owned businesses who endanger my safety do not have an entitlement to my business or my good will.

A gun free zone is a dangerous place just waiting for a crime to happen.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Let me just say that having been & found not guilty of brandishing for responding to a perceived threat after being involved in a felony hit & run with injuries, where the career meth dealer in a stolen car was reaching under the seat for "something" you bet I drew & would again. But OMG the 28 hr's in a ice cold holding cell with no medical attention with teeth chattering & a lot of pain, time & money to be found innocent until proven broke was a nightmare & I would gladly hand over anything on my person (grand total of much less than a couple hundred $'s) rather than go through that again. It seems as if SO MANY sheepdogs are just itching to shoot someone. Many of the "sheeple" don't want a sheepdog, so why force it on them? YOU ARE NOT LEO'S! Feel free to protect you and yours, I DO, but that is about it (unless some extenuating circumstances arose). With so many people being issued ccl's I'm more worried about catching one from friendly fire.

I could not agree more. The day I retired I switched from moving towards danger to moving away from it. I cc for the protection of myself and family. I will move myself and family away from danger, duck, cover, hide, whatever, with a gun as a last resort. And discharging my weapon will be because all other measures (to protect my family) have failed. To the public I say I'm no longer your protector. As the preacher said to the sheriff in Blazing Saddles, "Son, you're on your own".

 

[checkmyswag]

Is that a legally enforcable sign in Wisconsin?

 

[Launcher]

BrianE and JimmyJ:
In Wisconsin, the law is written such that it is assumed you saw the sign and therefore deliberately violated it.

The law permits certain owners and occupants of property to prohibit persons from
carrying a concealed firearm in or on the property. A person may be subject to a Class B
forfeiture if he or she carries a firearm on the property after being notified not to remain
on the property or remain with a specific type of firearm. In the latter case, a property
owner can prohibit a person form possessing a specific type of firearm on their property
or any firearm. Wis. Stat. § 943.13(1m)(b).

 

[Frizzman]

I do not engage in attempting to convince staff at a location that has such signs that it is ineffective at keeping armed people out. Some legal carriers will ignore such signs and so will some who are not carrying for legal purposes. I do not leave firearms unattended in a vehicle...So, I simply patronize places without such postings...There are plenty of establishments in my area that have no such prohibitions so its no problem for me...There is even a pizza place nearby that gives a discount to anyone who comes in openly armed or shows their concealed carry permit.

 

[Capt.Jim]

I think that Lobo's got the best answer on this one.
I guess my best analogy would be all the restaurants in Minnesota that ban smoking. I am a smoker and have to respect the fact that I can not smoke in those places. Instead I go to places with outdoor patios that allow smoking. I do not bother to debate the ban on indoor smoking with managers. Why cause the hassle? And yes I know, no bad guy is going to come into a restaurant and start to shoot up the place with his cigarettes and I have to defend myself by throwing my cigarettes at him. Sorry, best analogy I could think of.

Well the problem with that analogy is that smoking is an active event just like shooting, where being a smoker is a passive event just like carrying a concealed gun.
Do you agree to be banned from any establishment just because you have a pack of cigarettes in your pocket even if you agree not to light up while you're inside.

As a legal CCW I still enter those premises without waving my gun in the air or arguing with the management. After all I carry concealed. Nobody knows what I have on me.

They may WISH I didn't carry and I WISH they didn't want to take my self defense chance if the SHTF. We can all wish whatever we want.

In my state those signs are only a WISH, a REQUEST and not the law... If they notice my gun they may ask me to leave but I never been to a restaurant where I had been pat down at the door.

 

[Shooting Padre]

If the patrons of the business really do feel safe because of a sign, then they are as stupid as the manager.

My momma always said, "Stupid is as stupid does."
That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Hodgin]

I always ask to be seated in the "Guns Section," if given a choice.

 

[locolobo]

Haven't heard of any nd here either but even if it was to happen, the odds of it actually killing someone are alot less than a criminal making aim, IMO.

This just happened in my home state, at least there was not a fatality.

Kentucky man shot in leg when gun accidentally discharges in restaurant bathroom

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
December 09, 2013 - 9:25 am EST
AAA
Share/Save/Bookmark

ELIZABETHTOWN, Kentucky — Elizabethtown police say a man was accidentally shot in the leg while using a restaurant bathroom in the central Kentucky city.

Police Sgt. David Neary told The News-Enterprise (Man shot following accidental weapon discharge at restaurant | TheNewsEnterprise.com ) that the man left his pistol on the toilet paper dispenser while using the restroom on Sunday at the Fazoli's restaurant. Neary says the pistol slipped off the dispenser and shot the man in the leg.

Neary says evidence, including the bullet trajectory, supported the man's description of events.

He says the man was taken to an area hospital with a non-life threatening injury.

Police say the man had a concealed carry permit.

 

[blujax01]

...

In my state those signs are only a WISH, a REQUEST and not the law... If they notice my gun they may ask me to leave but I never been to a restaurant where I had been pat down at the door.

In all 30 NHL arenas, patrons are required to lift up their coats, shirts, etc., and do a pirouette. All purses, fanny packs, murses, and European shoulder bags are required to be opened for examination and random patrons are now "wanded" as they enter.

 

[The Big D]

For what it's worth, I attended the Military Bowl on 12/27 in Annapolis. Patrons with bags were subject to inspection of said bags and a relatively thorough check of their persons. I was without a bag and waved through with instructions to raise my arms and stand still briefly. There were wands available but did not see one in use.

I was unarmed, of course, as the game was contested in a federal facility. And, managed to walk to/from the game (RT approximately 4 miles) without being assaulted.

Be safe.

In all 30 NHL arenas, patrons are required to lift up their coats, shirts, etc., and do a pirouette. All purses, fanny packs, murses, and European shoulder bags are required to be opened for examination and random patrons are now "wanded" as they enter.

 

[Protected One]

For what it's worth, I attended the Military Bowl on 12/27 in Annapolis. Patrons with bags were subject to inspection of said bags and a relatively thorough check of their persons. I was without a bag and waved through with instructions to raise my arms and stand still briefly. There were wands available but did not see one in use.

I was unarmed, of course, as the game was contested in a federal facility. And, managed to walk to/from the game (RT approximately 4 miles) without being assaulted.

Be safe.

In my state, sports areans is one of the places a cpl does NOT allow you to carry. Restaraunts is a different matter entirelly. I'm guessing that many other states have a similar restriction.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

This just happened in my home state, at least there was not a fatality.

Kentucky man shot in leg when gun accidentally discharges in restaurant bathroom

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
December 09, 2013 - 9:25 am EST
AAA
Share/Save/Bookmark

ELIZABETHTOWN, Kentucky — Elizabethtown police say a man was accidentally shot in the leg while using a restaurant bathroom in the central Kentucky city.

Police Sgt. David Neary told The News-Enterprise (Man shot following accidental weapon discharge at restaurant | TheNewsEnterprise.com ) that the man left his pistol on the toilet paper dispenser while using the restroom on Sunday at the Fazoli's restaurant. Neary says the pistol slipped off the dispenser and shot the man in the leg.

Neary says evidence, including the bullet trajectory, supported the man's description of events.

He says the man was taken to an area hospital with a non-life threatening injury.

Police say the man had a concealed carry permit.

While I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that the ND happened as described, it seems far more likely that the victim was lying. Most modern handguns do not discharge when dropped.

??

 

[LRNFP]

Riding a dead horse on this stuff. It's his business how to run the store. You're not gonna stop the paranoia either way.
JMTC.

 

[Travis15R]

I have never seen one of these signs and I'm not making a joke...I really have never seen one

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I have not either but maybe bc this is Maine but I would not be shocked if any of these were to be found in Portland our biggest and most liberal place in the state.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Luby's in Texas had the same sign and was shot up a number of years ago. The witnesses stated it was like a "slaughter house".

Actually, at the time of the Luby's massacre, Texas didn't have any provision for concealed carry so the restaurant didn't have any signs. I was in Galveston over the weekend for our 40th Wedding Anniversary, and the only sign I saw on any restaurant was in Landry's. It merely detailed the penalties for unlicensed carry of a handgun in their establishment.

ECS

 

[Kensterfly]

Actually, at the time of the Luby's massacre, Texas didn't have any provision for concealed carry so the restaurant didn't have any signs.

ECS

What he said. No such sign existed.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

I was on my way to buy my wife a rather expensive anniversary gift at a jewelry store when I saw a "no guns" sign and stopped. Since I was just standing outside their door, the manager stuck his head outside to ask me if he could help me. I told him I was going to spend a couple of thousand dollars on jewelry but he wouldn't let me. When he asked why, I pointed at the "gunbuster" decal on his door. Then I left him saying, "But, sir, all you have to do is leave your gun in your car!"

If they were going to make that commercial with me in it, the flight attendant would say, "He went to Jared, but he bought the jewelry at Helzberg Diamonds."

 

[westy39]

Gosh, now this is a subject that many can voice an opinion on. I have a question since when did a store policy supersede a state law???
I am not an attorney just a retired street cop and I don't understand how a store policy has any rule of law to enforce such a policy. they of course can ask one to leave the store IF they in fact are aware that you are armed.
I was sent to take a statement from a juvenile at a detention center, not on the lock-up side, and I was told to leave my duty weapon in my patrol car. I was told they didn't allow weapons in the detention side. I then asked this person if all subjects coming into the center were checked for weapons? The response was "of course not" so I countered with" Then you have no idea if someone walks in with a gun concealed but you refuse to allow me to enter with my openly visible duty weapon while in my Police uniform?... She just stood there and told me well it was their policy...... I walked out and told dispatch to call back the comp as I was not allowed to enter the unsecured side of the juvenile detention center in my uniformed attire. The juvenile came outside and I took the statement. I was later told by some commanders that it was about time for this to happen..... I don't know if the policy has changed but I have a less than positive view of certain policys. Just my thoughts from the Big Sky Country.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

If state law allows private businesses to ban carrying concealed handguns, that's something we must respect. I do that by not spending my money in those businesses.

Sent from my little slice of Heaven.

 

[Kensterfly]

If state law allows private businesses to ban carrying concealed handguns, that's something we must respect. I do that by not spending my money in those businesses.

Roger that!