Intro & first of many Novice questions about IDPA & CC revolver options for a woman.

[Brazen Spirituality]

Intro & first of many Novice questions about IDPA & CC revolver options for a woman.

I do not plan to buy more than one handgun in the foreseeable future. That is why I have been "shopping" for almost 2 years, since I decided CC was for me, in the foreseeable future. I am to become a first time personal handgun owner, but I have shot others' since I was a kid, once here and twice there every decade or so since adulthood. I have always considered myself to be a pretty good shot, and especially so since I have never shot the same gun regularly. I know enough to know I still have a lot to learn, and that is why IDPA is something I would like to do in another year or three, when I have the time to really practice at a range twice a week, rain or shine (yeah, daily would be better.)

I have mostly settled upon a few basic concepts. I would rather have a S&W than any other. I would rather have a Performance Center model than any other. I would rather have a revolver than any other. I would rather between 3 and 4.25 barrel and 6 shots (or more, if that is actually practical in IDPA.) And any handgun I buy has to be IDPA legal. And that would mean I need decent night site options as well as a chamfered cylinder and a trigger job, and would prefer a full lug for added stability/accuracy. Also, for a female I have "large" hands, as in that is the size of woman's gloves I need, for anything from winter wear to gardening to medical gloves...I assume this means I can reasonably handle a K/L frame revolver, but a J frame might do.

All the IDPA features and "wish" items, I feel, are just as necessary for a Concealed Carry or even Home Protection handgun, as this is the number one purpose. And my intentions to participate in IDPA is just a method to reaching the goal of being a better educated and better trained handgun owner.

Now, I have been surfing the S&W site for a long while now, and the 686 seems to be the best option, on paper. (I have rented a heavily used 686 with a 4 or 5 inch barrel at a gun range nearby. I did pretty well with it, but either a SLIGHTLY lighter model would suit me better or that poor thing needed some TLC, and a trigger job, desperately.) Finding an IDPA legal Performance Center 686 (or 686 plus) with a mid sized barrel is like the Holy Grail... only MUCH harder to find.

I am expecting to spend give or take of a grand or more.

So I have to ask:

Should I go to a smaller revolver from the performance center offerings (and if so, which would be best?) Or is there an out of production Performance Center offering I should consider? Or is there a non PC revolver that is just as good?

Thank you one and all, just for reading this far!

Brazen Spirituality

 

[scooter123]

First off, don't waste your money on a Performance Center revolver. The "trigger jobs" these models feature is just a Strain Screw that isn't fully tightened. Since the Strain Screw will work looser if it isn't fully tightened down the end result is an endless cycle of posts on this Forum about Performance Center revolvers misfiring. You would be much better served by having a local gunsmith file fit your strain screw to produce a 9.0 lbs. DA trigger pull or purchasing a diamond file and trigger gage and doing that yourself.

Second, Night Sights reduce the visibility of the sights in a handgun. Instead of clean white dots what you get are sort of grayish dots that can't be seen in the reduced lighting typical at an indoor range. BTW, at 61 years old I can no longer focus on handgun sights so I have a distinct preference for sights with the most visibility, which is big white dots. I'll also tell you that night sights do not "glow" at an indoor range and neither do fibre optic sights. Night sights only become visible in near pitch black darkness and fibre optics need overhead lighting equivalent to a sunny or cloudy day to be really visible. Take it from someone who has tried them all, a bit of white Testors model plain on a front sight is the best improvement you can make on the front sight of a S&W revolver (or AR15 rifle).

As for combined IDPA and carry use, I would recommend the S&W model 66, not the 686. It's a bit lighter and IDPA rules mandate only using a 6 shot load. Since the 686 standard models all seem to be 7 shooters that is a big problem for using one in competition because indexing would be required at every reload. I can also tell you I really do NOT like a full lug barrel on a revolver because that extra mass in the barrel increases Swing Mass which slows down transitioning between targets. However if you can find a 3 inch 686 6 shooter used locally it will have the swing weight and be nearly as light as a 4 inch model 66, so that particular variant is a great choice. However, the 3 inch 686's are the most sought after version of the 686 and difficult to find and the 6 shooters carry a real premium on the used market.

Finally if you want to shoot twice a week that is fantastic. However you'll find that 38 special ammunition costs between 20 and 24 dollars for a box of 50 for name brand ammunition. I can reload my own 38 special ammunition for about 7.50 to 8 dollars a box and precision match grade 357 Magnums that feature a Hornady XTP bullet only cost me 15 dollars a box. At some point I would suggest that you consider taking up reloading, because it will permit you to put a LOT more bullets downrange. Yeah, reloaders don't really save more money, they just shoot a lot more than those who purchase their ammunition.

 

[Grayfox]

Welcome! I'm always glad to see another lady join or ranks.
Looks like you've done your homework and have set clear goals for yourself. That's good, but be prepared to make some adjustments.
You do not need a Performance Center gun for CC or IDPA. Frankly, I consider them more collector pieces than practical carry guns. Any of the standard models will serve you well without costing nearly as much.
I agree with Scooter regarding Night Sights. Another over rated gimmick that isn't necessary. For night sights to really work it has to be dark. Real dark. At which point you will probably be point shooting anyway. In daylight shooting, I find that they make picking up the sights more difficult. I'm just not a fan.
I feel pretty much the same about fiber optic sights.
Personally, I prefer plain black sights with maybe a spot of paint on the front blade if you like.
Nor do you necessarily need adjustable sights. Plain old fixed sights can be very effective because in speed shooting you concentrate on the front sight and don't always get a perfect sight picture. Its really a personal choice as to what works for you. I suggest you experiment with both to find what you like.

While the same gun can be used for both CCW and IDPA, the best for one may not be the best for the other. Two different sets of criteria here.
In my case, when shooting IDPA with a revolver, I use a 4" 586. Accuracy at distance is important here as some targets may be out as far as 50 feet or more. Here the extra weight and barrel length pay off.
However, for concealed carry with a revolver, I most often choose my 3" Model 13. Its smaller, lighter and if necessary, will most likely be used at very close range.

Another consideration is how you plan to carry the gun every day. While the L-frame 586/686s are excellent guns, they are heavy and require a good belt and holster for comfortable daily carry. Many women's pants don't have belt loops.
My GF has this issue. She carries a 2" Model 10 and as much as I would prefer that she carry on body, it just isn't practical with her style of dress. So she purse carries.

While your goals are admirable, there is much to take into consideration. Be flexible, experiment and find what works for you.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Howdy from South Carolina, and welcome to the forum.

It's admirable to do so much investigation to try and find the "one" gun that does it all. The fly-in-the-ointment is going to be your wish that it be your concealed carry firearm also.

As a Texan, your probably not going to wear a cover garment most of the year, and clothing to conceal a full sized revolver without cover, will likely be unflattering. A less desirable choice is a holster purse, but they are by necessity heavy, and few accept more than a 3" revolver.

I can't speak to the competitive aspects of your choice, but the previous statement about Performance Center firearms being no different, is false in regard to the 686. At the very least, the hammer, trigger, barrel, sights, grip, and cylinder are different. I would imagine that the PC cylinder cut for moonclips with chamfered charge holes would be helpful in competition. The PC also has a smoother action, not just lightened by strain screw.


686's: 4", 3", PC2.5".

Personally, I carry the 3" 686, but the 4" 686 is amazingly accurate for me. A quick glance at the S&W catalogue, and the 686SSR stands out for your competition purpose. Beveled lug for lowered mass and 6-shot chamfered charge holes.

Good sight choices are user specific and affected by the shooters eyesight. My best shooting comes from big white dots.

There are a million ammo choices, but lately, as a Cabelas card holder, they occasionally offer an additional 20% off, and combined with a sale, I've gotten Herters FMJ 158gr 38SPL for $14 and .357 for $16, and stock up.

PS: The longer the length of the round that you shoot, the more jiggling required during reloads to get them chambered. Shorter moonclipped rounds like 9mm and .45 practically load themselves by comparison to .38SP or .357. I don't know if the rules allow these calibers.

 

[growr]

While IDPA was founded upon shooting what you actually carry, the reality is that few competitors actually follow this precept.
You will see among revolver shooters the K/L frame's dominate.

My favorite is still my dad's K-38 service revolver that is still as issued. Mfg in 1947 when my dad was a sheriff. It has lots of attitude and character, but is SO smooth and accurate. Shooting it also carries the memory of my dad.

Next in line is my M66 4" that again is unaltered and is butter smooth, followed by my M586 4" which is also butter smooth and scary accurate!

If I am carrying a revolver it is usually my M36 in my Kramer front pocket holster. Sometimes it is my M66 2" in a Galco OWB carry holster.

My real point is that most IDPA shooters select a gun and holster for the game and not for actual carry.

Randy

PS. Just bought a M625 4" JM to use in ESR....love full moon clips and 45 acp!!

 

[Mister X]

All the IDPA features and "wish" items, I feel, are just as necessary for a Concealed Carry or even Home Protection handgun, as this is the number one purpose. And my intentions to participate in IDPA is just a method to reaching the goal of being a better educated and better trained handgun owner.

If I'm understanding your post correctly, personal defense is the primary purpose and you feel IDPA is a means to an end of being better prepared in the context of self-defense.

IDPA could be beneficial to a degree in that regard, but is not at all necessary. In fact, IDPA will do little to help prepare you for the most common defense scenarios you're most likely to encounter as a civilian and as a woman. For example, IDPA doesn't address scenarios such as a sucker punch-rape attempt, muggings, unarmed assaults, car-jackings, armed robberies, knife or impact weapon attacks or close-quarter or ECQ(extreme close-quarter) defensive use of a firearm.

And the guns best suited for IDPA are probably not ideal for CC and personal defense. The Real Ladies Gun -- Handguns

2 years is a very long time to shop for a firearm. It would be better to get something as soon as possible as you never know when you might need it. Something like a S&W j-frame 642/442 is affordable, easy to carry and versatile in the context of personal defense.

 

[OKFC05]

In a new S&W revolver, the Pro Series 686 SSR is factory prepped and ready to go shoot IDPA/SSR. The 4" Model 66 needs chambers chamfered and could use some action work to be competition ready.
Neither is my choice for routine concealed carry, due to size and weight.
The 5 shot j frames are now orphans in IDPA, since even BUG Rev division is 6 shot. However, the 5 shot j frames are just the ticket for concealed carry.

For a gun to learn on, the 5 shot j frame is a real challenge, and a K/L frame 6 shot 4" revolver is far easier to learn on, not beating you up so much.
So you need 2 guns to do it right, if that is an option for you.

A standard M&P 9mm is a simpler, cheaper, easier to learn approach to a do-all handgun.

NRA instructor and IDPA Match Director.

 

[H Richard]

I would actually steer you just slightly different. As growr mentioned a K Frame 38 Special, can be acquired at a far lower price, and then purchase a reloading set up and you will be able to do much more actual shooting and then down the road after you have several years experience you may just decide to buy a different gun. If you plan to buy factory ammo, lower priced, and plan to shoot 200 rounds a week that will cost you at least $60-$70 a week. Reloading your own you would be able to shoot usually twice as much for the same price.

 

[DD357]

I agree with the others that if you want to be competitive at all you are really looking at 2 guns unless you are willing to carry a 4" K frame. I also agree with what Mister X said about IPDA and an actual assault. However I applaud you for wanting to actually shoot what you are going to carry. If I would buy one for both I'd get a 2.5" 19/66 or 3" 13/65 and not worry about where I finished. My EDC is a 2.5" 19 FWIW.

 

[Silver Creek Al]

I would advise anyone with a CCW to go to a IDPA match and ask to shoot as a novice with the gun you want to carry. A gun that you carry every day should be light, easily carried on your body or in our purse in a good holster. I would not over shoot this revolver in matches but have a second similar gun for range and match use... all revolvers suffer from wear and will break, you do not want this to happen with your carry gun. I would not expect to win IDPA matches with your carry gun, IDPA is learning to think and use a tool that may save your life. Sure, good tools make things easier but I would rather have you able to use any tool available for this purpose.