Iraq Veteran Stripped of RKBA ...

CelticSire said:
The Veterans Administration did not take away the soldier's 2A rights. His Concealed Carry Permit was revoked by Arkansas, not the VA. Soldier goes to the VA for treatment, gets the treatment he needs, and the state takes action based on that treatment. And now everybody wants to blame the VA.
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That's the crux of the problem..

If you read a Form 4473

f. Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court. board. commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage Your own affairs OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions/or Question II.()
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He went to the VA.
The VA acknowledge his claim of PTSD.
The state did their job of checking records.

His only recourse is to get the VA to reverse his claim, something I do not think he wants..

100% disability is running around $3,000 a month.. I have no idea what Mr Irlan is receiving,, BUT the current VA administration has made it very easy to claim PTDS.. and that leads to 100% disability, factor in his PH, wife, kids and it may be higher.

There are two edges to the sword..

I wish Mr Irelan a speedy recovery..
 
SGT irelan has NOT been judged mentally defective simply by being diagnosed with PTSD. If his diagnosis contains information that would lead to a finding that his PTSD makes him a threat to himself or others, then that would be grounds for revoking his concealed carry permit. BUT, the diagnosis of PTSD, in and of itself, is not. Also, he has not lost his 2A rights, at least according to the information presented in the article. He has had the privilege of carrying concealed in the state of Arkansas revoked. As far as the statement that "ATF said we will both go to jail if we have guns in the house" or words to that effect, that quote did not come from an ATF official. While I empathize with SGT Irelan, this is not a VA issue, it is an Arkansas issue. He can appeal the revocation and a good VA advocate can get him the documentation needed to win that appeal. Too many people think that simply because a service member is diagnosed with PTSD that it is an immediate justification for taking away firearms. Nothing could be further from the truth.
 
Their coming to take me away ha ha their coming to take me away ho ho he he ha ha to the VA Funny Farm were life is beautiful all the time!

Yep, you can check into Hotel VA but you can never leave!

We are not getting the whole story from AK. If he told VA psych he wanted to kill himself or he felt like hurting others he is screwed. Not for ever, but until he no longer has those type of feelings over a good amount of time.(I do not know how long a time frame) I believe it's a case by case deal.

I don't know AK law, but I will say I have had and still have dealings with VA psych and I have had no problem buying a pistol in OH. I'm going to CCW class next month so we will see how that goes.
 
The whole VA needs revamped. 100% disability for PTSD. Give me a break. All those WWII vets are rolling in their graves.
I've got a co-worker who collects a VA disability for asthma yet he can play hockey and do anyhting I can do. It's time for the VA to get rid of these sick bay commandos that claim disability and give it to the people that deserve it.
 
I have a friend who is a Marine, has PTSD from Viet Nam, and is 100% disabled for VA purposes. He has told me to get the VA benefits I have coming to me, and I told him I absolutely refuse to do so because of the nonsense the VA pulls, and also because there are Vets who need the benefits a whole lot more than I do. We both have decent police pensions and excellent health benefits too. On our (the taxpayer's dime) the VA just got finished re-doing his master bathroom for his "disabilities". They even wanted to put in one of those little sit down elevators that attaches to the wall so he did not have to physically climb the stairs. At least he said no to that, which surprised me. I keep telling him if he lost 150 pounds (he weighs about 350), most of his disabilities would go away, but he always has an excuse or two. I also told him to not be surprised when some day, the bureaucrats come knocking on his door to take his guns away from him. He says it won't happen. Yeah, right.......:rolleyes::mad:
 
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I keep trying to figure out if this is true. On the one hand I know a number of 100% SC Viet Nam vets who have PTSD and usually problems related to wounds from Viet Nam. They own guns and have carry permits. A couple are NRA instructors and teach carry clases. I'm wondering if the guys who run into trouble are folks that the VA declares Incompetent to handle their funds ( sometimes a pretty arbitrary designation ) and then the feds pick up on that and misuse the financial incompetency to stop gun purchases.
 
Let's not leave out the ones that sat in the rear or on a ship and claim PTSD without ever firing a round or engaging the enemy. Oh the horror....
These dirtbags take away from every Veteran who served in combat and are truly deserving.
We had a generation that stormed the beaches of Normandy that did their job and if they were lucky came home in one piece. No whining and crying about what they saw or did. No claims of PTSD even though they were most certainly entitled.
This generation however, seem to always have their hand out looking for entitlements they aren't entitled too. A vast majority anyway.
I was in a discussion with a National Guard Sgt. who returned from Iraq. Never fired a shot, never saw any combat, took a few mortars, that was the extent of his "combat". Guess what? PTSD and a 90% disability. Even has the Disabled Vet plates. I can't tell you how pissed that makes me.
He isn't alone I'm sure, his whole Unit probably applied for and received some form of disability and tax free checks for the rest of their lives.
It discredits and spits in the eye of "REAL" Disabled Vets. They should be ashamed.......they aren't though.
 
szuppo said:
Let's not leave out the ones that sat in the rear or on a ship and claim PTSD without ever firing a round or engaging the enemy. Oh the horror....
These dirtbags take away from every Veteran who served in combat and are truly deserving.
We had a generation that stormed the beaches of Normandy that did their job and if they were lucky came home in one piece. No whining and crying about what they saw or did. No claims of PTSD even though they were most certainly entitled.
This generation however, seem to always have their hand out looking for entitlements they aren't entitled too. A vast majority anyway.
I was in a discussion with a National Guard Sgt. who returned from Iraq. Never fired a shot, never saw any combat, took a few mortars, that was the extent of his "combat". Guess what? PTSD and a 90% disability. Even has the Disabled Vet plates. I can't tell you how pissed that makes me.
He isn't alone I'm sure, his whole Unit probably applied for and received some form of disability and tax free checks for the rest of their lives.
It discredits and spits in the eye of "REAL" Disabled Vets. They should be ashamed.......they aren't though.
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Question, You ever been in the Military? I'm going to go out on a short limb and say I doubt it.

You know it's real easy to recognize a physical disability, a Vet in a wheelchair, a Vet missing an arm, a Vet with half his face shot away. Not so easy to see what is going on or not going on in the brain. Just because a Vet did not see combat does not mean that he is faking a disability.

You see, I was in the Navy 14 years, I was in Desert Storm, I was on a Destroyer, DDG 46 USS Preble. We did interdiction duty. I did not set foot in the sand. In June of 1992 the Navy Honorably discharged me for Unspecified Personality Disorder. Fast forward, April 2009, the VA desides, I'm no longer able to work. So I'm screwed, how do I survive. I apply for Non-Service Connected Pension through the VA and get it. I get $985 month.

You live on less than a grand a month and tell me how that works for you!
 
szuppo said:
Let's not leave out the ones that sat in the rear or on a ship and claim PTSD without ever firing a round or engaging the enemy. Oh the horror....
These dirtbags take away from every Veteran who served in combat and are truly deserving.
We had a generation that stormed the beaches of Normandy that did their job and if they were lucky came home in one piece. No whining and crying about what they saw or did. No claims of PTSD even though they were most certainly entitled.
This generation however, seem to always have their hand out looking for entitlements they aren't entitled too. A vast majority anyway.
I was in a discussion with a National Guard Sgt. who returned from Iraq. Never fired a shot, never saw any combat, took a few mortars, that was the extent of his "combat". Guess what? PTSD and a 90% disability. Even has the Disabled Vet plates. I can't tell you how pissed that makes me.
He isn't alone I'm sure, his whole Unit probably applied for and received some form of disability and tax free checks for the rest of their lives.
It discredits and spits in the eye of "REAL" Disabled Vets. They should be ashamed.......they aren't though.
Click to expand...

The more I read this post, the more it really gets under my skin. You have no idea how many of the National Guard unit did or did not apply for disability, yet you make a blanket claim that they "probably' did. You also talk about WWII vets and how they didn't "whine" or "cry". That's because we didn't recognize what PTSD was and how it affected veterans and their families back then. Then you go on to say how taking a few mortars isn't 'real' combat. And how they should be ashamed, but aren't. I see your EGA in your profile, so I'm assuming you want people to believe you were a Marine. Ever see combat? No. Ever spend time in a Wounded Warrior Unit? No, you haven't. Ever had to write a letter to the family of a soldier killed by one of your "not real combat" mortars? You can bet your life you haven't. Ever spend mulitiple tours in a combat zone where little kids are used as human bombs to kill you and your buddies? Where mortars and rockets are a daily occurrence? Help put fellow soldiers, and Marines, and Air Force or Navy or Coast Guard in body bags for shipment back home after one of your "not real combat" mortar attacks hits a chow hall? You couldn't. Why don't you quit "whining and crying" about what real veterans do and stick to something you know about. People like you, especially if you really were a Marine, make me puke. You want to sit on the sidelines and talk about how undeserving we are as combat veterans because of how YOU think war should be. The only thing you know of war is from playing Halo. Shut up.
 
On the issue of military personnel not in the direct line of fire I would like to weigh in. In my career I met more vets than I can count who had clear cut PTSD and who were never under direct fire. Here are a few examples : accident crash investigators for the Air Force who had to clean up crash sites, folks who worked flight decks on carriers and saw people killed or maimed, graves registration people, medics, nurses or corpman working trauma scenes or in places like Guam during the Viet Nam war, folks on hospital ships who helped unload the dead and wounded, and men and women who were sexually assaulted in the service by colleagues or superiors. I could go on. My unscientific heirarchy for what I think could ( certainly not always ) lead to PTSD are graves registration, corpman-medic-nurse, and then grunt . These are some of the people who I personally met in the course of my job.

The DSM IV doesn't require combat to diagnose PTSD. Here is the definition used by the American Psychiatric Association for the stressor necessary to possibly cause PTSD:

" The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following have been present:

1.The person has experienced, witnessed, or been confronted with an event or events that involve actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of oneself or others.
2.The person's response involved intense fear,helplessness, or horror. "
 
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I have a disability rating from the VA for PTSD, and I assure any of you who doubt it, that PTSD is real and serious, but it doesn't automatically cause you to lose your right to carry or own firearms.

Some of the **** posted in this thread by ignorant people gets me really ticked off, but doesn't make me a threat.

I am an NRA certified instructor, and I have PTSD. No connection really.

However, I did want to say that mr szuppo is full of bull and offensive to some of us who lost parts of our minds or memories to the horrors of war.

You can't see all wounds nor can you group all vet's the same, whether they saw combat every day or took a mortar now and again.
 
As to what constitutes PTSD and who can handle which horrors and such - I will not weigh in. I served in peacetime and won't tell anyone about THEIR experience - combat or otherwise - and what each man or woman can do to deal with it. I do think that there is honorable intent in getting the current war vets the treatment that their forefathers never had available. Too often, the vets of previous wars were treated as fire and forget weapons - discarded when the need was over.

What I do know is that, yes, the V.A. is awash in bureaucratic waste, fraud, and abuse, as are many government programs. Not only that but too many clinicians who work in the V.A. health system do have negative biases against the very people they are there to treat. Too many vets have little idea what a simple answer on a form can cause them to have to endure.

As to getting a VA disability, yep, the stipend is available but as too many cases point out, it can come at the price of your personal liberty.
 
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szuppo said:
Let's not leave out the ones that sat in the rear or on a ship and claim PTSD without ever firing a round or engaging the enemy. Oh the horror....
These dirtbags take away from every Veteran who served in combat and are truly deserving.
We had a generation that stormed the beaches of Normandy that did their job and if they were lucky came home in one piece. No whining and crying about what they saw or did. No claims of PTSD even though they were most certainly entitled.
This generation however, seem to always have their hand out looking for entitlements they aren't entitled too. A vast majority anyway.
I was in a discussion with a National Guard Sgt. who returned from Iraq. Never fired a shot, never saw any combat, took a few mortars, that was the extent of his "combat". Guess what? PTSD and a 90% disability. Even has the Disabled Vet plates. I can't tell you how pissed that makes me.
He isn't alone I'm sure, his whole Unit probably applied for and received some form of disability and tax free checks for the rest of their lives.
It discredits and spits in the eye of "REAL" Disabled Vets. They should be ashamed.......they aren't though.
Click to expand...

This is really hienous. Things affect different guys different ways. One guy will get hit and have his 3 best friends die around him and he'll go back to base have the shrapnel pulled out eat dinner and is ready to get right back in the thick of it the next morning. Another guy fients from fear of combat getting on the rotator as soon as he boards it in Atlanta airport. You can call one of them a p***y or whatever but if you haven't picked up a rifle who are you to judge?

Bottom line is you send guys into combat and you have stuff like this happen. I'm sure there are guys abusing the system, but the vast majority suffering from PTSD are actually suffering from it. What caused it and their "breaking point" varies a lot and many who have it have been through less than many who don't but that doesn't make them any less "REAL". We all do our part as best we can an that "best we can" threshold varies.

For what it is worth I have been in combat, I've been fired on many times and I've fired on the enemy twice. I don't think I killed anyone (I'm grateful for that). I've lost friends but I've never watched a friend die (I'm grateful for that too). I am also grateful that I don't suffer from PTSD but I chalk that up to luck and I don't think it is because I am any tougher or better than anyone who does suffer from it.

Oh and for what it is worth, there was plenty of PTSD in WW2 ... it was just called "shell shock" because they didn't have a clinical name for it. You are right those guys didn't get treatment for it, but I don't think that is neccesarily a good thing. I would cll that society failing to follow through and pay their debt after they sent those soldiers, sailors and Marines into combat.
 
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Howl on war lords...

There are thousands of truck drivers, cooks, clerks, etc etc, that could really benefit from some therapy and maybe some medication, and it would transform their lives, but they aren't going to ask for help, because they "were only a..." They are actually the majority of the ones not getting the help they need at VA, so that they could sleep better, have better personal relationships, feel better about their contribution, both in the service, and everywhere else, and be able to live out a normal life span. You know, there were a lot more truck drivers and cooks, than tunnel rats, well, unless you've been hanging around in one of those bars... The folks that held these "Lowly" positions suffer from survivors guilt, the primary symtom of PTSD, along, of course, with denial-the "ain't nothin' wrong with me, let somebody else go for the help, those scum bags that didn't wade through blood and guts like I did bunch.They could certainly use some help, if not for PTSD-then something else. You know, I went where I was told to go, and did what I was told to do when I was in the armed forces, so I really have nothing to say about what somebody else did. I would NEVER demean another persons service. Also-it always makes me laugh whenever I hear the words "easy" and "VA" used close to each other in someones response. That automatically qualifies them as lacking any working knowledge of things "VA". There have been some improvements in how supporting evidence is gathered and offered, making it the way it should have been all along, but anyone who has gotten any of the things promised to us by the government from the VA didn't have anesy time getting it, probably deserved more than they got, and should have gotten it a lot sooner. Oh, and there are many "Psychological Issues" that don't make the person "mentaly incompetant" which is a good thing for a sizable percentage of those who posted on this subject. The ignorance of the things of mental health continue to predominate in our society. If you go to a mental health facility-you are nutz. By the way, the legislation refered to before by Cong. Rehberg is H R 2349-and specifically adresses protecting Veterans who have received "mental Health Decisions" against the loss of the right to posess firearms. My friends, mental illness in general, and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in particular, is much misunderstood thing. By the way-service members are the smallest group of PTSD sufferers, rape victims constitute the largest group, and I hope all of them are armed. Flapjack.
 
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