Military Discipline

[son-of-a-gun]

Of course, there's still the Marine Corps!

Semper Fi!

 

[captorquewrench]

All I will contribute is how much of a pain it is to iron a military crease, but, OH MY how fantastically sharp it looks!

 

[jdh]

NO , No , no!

The flight suit is NOT a uniform! It's protective gear (nomex) and should not be worn by anyone except for 'gold wing' wearing aircrews (pilots , NFOs , aircrewmen) on active flight status and the 'ready' crew. A non-aviator wearing a flightbag is just more gender blind , fem-coddling , PC bullcrap!

Unless you have EARNED the right to wear GOLD WINGS , you DO NOT have the right to wear a flight suit or flight jacket.

BRAVO SIERRA

You are telling us the ECOs in the bowels of the EA-6B or the many crew members of the AWACS, JSTARS, or any of those type aircraft are not important enough to be given the limited protection from fire the nomex flight suit provides? Or do aircraft fires only occur in the cockpit? I'm sure the fight crews running the electronic systems that keep you safe up there really appreciate your arrogance.

 

[Kanewpadle]

NO , No , no!

The flight suit is NOT a uniform! It's protective gear (nomex) and should not be worn by anyone except for 'gold wing' wearing aircrews (pilots , NFOs , aircrewmen) on active flight status and the 'ready' crew. A non-aviator wearing a flightbag is just more gender blind , fem-coddling , PC bullcrap!

Unless you have EARNED the right to wear GOLD WINGS , you DO NOT have the right to wear a flight suit or flight jacket.

Spoken like a true officer! NOT!!

I wore one three times and I was in maintenance!

Troubleshooting an inflight fuel leak on a Benson tank on a C-130.

Trouble shooting a fuel line on an SR-71 while the engines were at MILITARY POWER.

Hot pit refuel of an F-15.

Gold Wing, hrrumph! You with the Gold Wings wouldn't be going anywhere if it was'nt for those of that us didn't wear them.

 

[Chubbs103]

Spoken like a true officer! NOT!!

I wore one three times and I was in maintenance!

Troubleshooting an inflight fuel leak on a Benson tank on a C-130.

Trouble shooting a fuel line on an SR-71 while the engines were at MILITARY POWER.

Hot pit refuel of an F-15.

Gold Wing, hrrumph! You with the Gold Wings wouldn't be going anywhere if it was'nt for those of that us didn't wear them.

This isn't my fight, but I suggest the two previous posters look up mkk41's avatar before slinging indignation. It isn't just officers to which he was referring as aircrew.

 

[roundgunner]

I see alot of respect from the young sailors. I have made a habit of addressing them as Sir if I don't know them well becouse I can't remember names. I come in close contact with a lot of Navy newbees, the Petty Officers that are instructers and the Chiefs. I wear civvies so the people who don't really know be address me as sir.

My point is I go out of my way to give a little respect to the newbees and get respect in spades.

 

[El Biblioitecario]

Its not just the military that is crazy for camo. I used to work at a national laboratory, and the security guard force there always wore camo. But their sole task was to safeguard big gray concrete buildings. The camo outfits made them very conspicuous in that environment.

The best take I've heard on this came from a female navy E4. When at the San Deigo naval hospital I asked her what tactical purpose was served by her blue-black-grey BDU uniform. Her response was that she thought the navy had adapted it to be in style with the other services.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Kanewpadle]

This isn't my fight, but I suggest the two previous posters look up mkk41's avatar before slinging indignation. It isn't just officers to which he was referring as aircrew.

Doesn't have anything to do with his avatar. It has to do with the arrogance and short sightedness of his last sentence.

I'm done with this before I get "scolded". It ain't gonna turn out well.

 

[El Biblioitecario]

...I don't what service members you complainers see..."

How about general officers on national television doing press conferences?

...After my 20 years of wearing fatigues and BDUs, let me tell you that I appreciate the fact that ACUs aren't starched and that the days of spit shined boots are gone.

What we have here is a generational values schism. That doesn't mean this poster is wrong...it just means that he and the previous posters ain't going to agree on this issue.

 

[DWFAN]

My daughter, EOD, and my nephew, Infantry, Afghan Vet. Even in camos they still look sharp. It's all in how you present yourself. I'm a Nam Vet and I hated all that starch.
DW

 

[roundgunner]

My daughter, EOD, and my nephew, Infantry, Afghan Vet. Even in camos they still look sharp. It's all in how you present yourself. I'm a Nam Vet and I hated all that starch.
DW

Thank them for me.

Where in CT?

 

[amazingflapjack]

It is reported that the replacement para's that jumped into Dien Bien Phu, when it was on its last legs had fresh shaves and shined jump boots, as their comrades on the ground were being over run. Esprit De Corps?

 

[Chubbs103]

Doesn't have anything to do with his avatar. It has to do with the arrogance and short sightedness of his last sentence.

I'm done with this before I get "scolded". It ain't gonna turn out well.

Kanewpadle,
I have one brief statement to make, then I am out. My point of the avatar was that mkk41 is/was not an officer, but an enlisted aircrewman. What I read (as well as a little arrogance) was frustration faced by someone who worked hard for their NEC/designator/MOS only to see the symbols of their accomplishments lessened. Just because someone works WITH PJs, for example, does not entitle them to wear a maroon beret.

Chubbs

 

[LVSteve]

I have a nephew who left the Navy about three years ago. His views on the discipline, or rather the lack thereof, shown by the more recent recruits AND the officers are long, vitriolic and not fit for this board.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Nomex suits, many of which resemeble flight suits are - or at least were - also standard issue to bomb handlers, AFV crews, and for a while were a favorite for close quarters battle training (gave a bit of protection from muzzle flash).

Any armored crewman would be puzzled at the idea that flight suits are just for pilots.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Just to lighten the thread a bit:

 

[DWFAN]

Thank them for me.

Where in CT?

Bristol.

 

[Badkarma 1]

I've seen the new Navy "uniform"...reminds me of cole slaw! Dale

 

[Shooting Padre]

I have served twice in Iraq and once in Afghanistan. Here's my take: What happened is two major wars and a Global War on Terror. Service members in tactical units have been deployed over and over in the past 10 years. Practicality becomes more necessary than ceremony and pomp. Our ACU uniforms, while not as sharp as starched shirts and trousers, are utilitarian. Desert boots don't require polishing and are actually usable in the terrain we deploy to. Many soldiers "grow up" in the military as lower enlisted in a deployed environment, where soldiers live together much closer, even with their NCOs and officers. Salutes and "Yes Sir!"s are replaced by interaction on a more personal level. I have no idea what things were like in the 60's and 70's, that's way before my time. This is just my experience in today's Army.

Military bearing is certainly not as sharp as it used to be, and I agree our uniforms don't look very good. But the military has had more important things on it's mind the past decade. As the wars wind down, Commanders and CSMs will start bringing the garrison side of military life back in full force.

All that said, I was in the 82nd for a few years, and I can tell you Drill and Ceremony is alive and well. More than once I stood in formation for hours in the baking Carolina sun, helping to keep that part of military life alive.

Yes, I get your point. Times and military missions have changed. In today's duty environment I think the way you are doing things may be much better. I see a less spit and shine military in some areas, there is a place for that, but I think they are to be highly commended in their duty and service to our nation. From what I see, they are highly professional in their work. I personally thank you men and women who now serve. I do not envy your jobs, they are tough. We vets like to sometimes remember and dream. I only wish there would be a time when our young citizens would no longer march off to war. Not likely I guess. God bless.

 

[Oldiron]

I went back and reread Kudzu3s post and I for one know from where he is seeing things. On the other hand, I thought about the posts that have been presented by others and tried to fit them into what I have seen over the last few years. I came to a strange conclusion. What we are seeing and making judgement on isn't necessarily our "Military" men and women. Most of what I have seen that is reflected in the thread is our part time folks that should not be deployed in the first place. Activated in time of war has become "your turn in the sand box" for the guard and reserves. These folks are civilian/military/civilian/military......... I thought about the actual enlisted military folks I have seen and they are in dress uniforms. Makes me think the problem may be more in the lap of the upper muckies who have never served.
Yes there is a problem with our Military these days, it has been cut to the bone and is bleeding badly. JMHO
Larry