Is .380 ACP effective against canine threats?

[Echo40]

Lately I've had growing concerns over the possibility that I may one day have to defend myself against an attack by coyotes, dogs, or possibly even wolves. This concern is not unwarranted either, as lately I've been hearing a lot of barking and howling coming from the woods surrounding my property.

I typically carry a subcompact .40cal pistol such as my M&P40c or Shield when I go out, but when I'm around my house I usually just have a Ruger LCP in my pocket, which up until now I've had total confidence in, but all that barking and howling has unnerved me to the point that I'm having second thoughts and wondering if I ought to be carrying .40 S&W full-time.

I'd like to hear from some folks who've actually had to defend themselves against animal attacks of the sort. I know that sort of thing isn't especially common for civilians, but we have a fair amount of active/retired LEOs here who I presume most likely have some experience on the matter, and while most cops don't carry .380 ACP, a lot of officers have carried .38 Special or 9mm Parabellum, so if neither of those are particularly effective then I can safely say that .380 ACP wouldn't be either.

 

[Cal44]

Didn't the governor of Texas kill a coyote with an LCP loaded with hollow points a few years ago?

I think 380 would be enough. Dogs are thin skinned.

But wolves? I don't know about that.

Especially if you are attacked by a pack. That seems like the time for a high capacity 9mm.

 

[chief38]

Just like in most shootings, where the bullet is placed is probably the determining factor. While a 380 would not be my first choice, a well placed head or heart shot would probably do the trick. It might not put a large animal down quite as fast as a larger more powerful caliber but it’s better than a 22.

 

[CA Escapee]

Several years ago I had a co-worker whose brother was carrying an LCP while out on a morning run. He heard a dog running up behind him, turned and realized a Rottweiler was charging him. He was able to draw his pistol, and fire two rounds at the Rottweiler once it jumped and was in midair.

My co-worker didn't know where the hits were, but he said when it landed it was DRT. I don't think he knew what ammo was used, either.

I don't know if the outcome would be the same every time, but it worked that time.

 

[robertrwalsh]

Dogs are not that hard to kill. They can be hard to hit. Any reasonable .380 load should do the job if you can hit with it. I have unfortunately had to shoot two pits attacking me. One incident I was carrying a .38 snubby. One was a full-size 10mm. Both did the job with one shot. Both were straight-on chest shots. Shot placement is the primary criteria. Adequate penetration is a very important secondary criteria. Dogs are not that 'thick.' Any suitable anti-personnel load should do fine on a dog. Even a hella big dog seldom weighs more than a largish adult man.

 

[Breakaway500]

Any gun is better than no gun.That being said..my Keltec P32 (and 3AT) hardly travel in my pocket any longer as my 642 is only a bit bigger but has a lot more bark.

 

[glenwolde]

Didn't the governor of Texas kill a coyote with an LCP loaded with hollow points a few years ago?

I think 380 would be enough. Dogs are thin skinned.

But wolves? I don't know about that.

Especially if you are attacked by a pack. That seems like the time for a high capacity 9mm.

Yep. Our governor can outshoot your governor.

Texas Governor Rick Perry'''s jog sparks '''Coyote Special''' pistols | ABC13 Houston | abc13.com - ABC13 Houston

 

[Skeet 028]

Never attacked by a dog. I did kill 4 of a pack that attacked our chickens in the yard...but I used a M-15 38 sp.. That said I was "attacked" by a rabid coon in my barn. I grabbed a loaded M-39 when I heard a commotion outside by the chickens in the pen. When the coon saw me it immediately came towards me. I had to shoot it 6 times with 9mm 115 gr ball...all at 10-15 feet. I know it wasn't the guns fault but I shortly sold the M-39. 45 time. I honestly thought I was going to have to run over the coon with the tractor and disc. I had just come in for lunch from working a 5 acre strawberry patch we had to plant. Animal control came and got it to be tested...Positive

 

[mtgianni]

Make sure that any shots at a skull are straight on not angling. A friend had to shoot a large dog that took 2 angling shots in the head. The body shot was the put down shot. 38 special solids that angled across the top of the skull without penetration.

 

[max503]

IDK about caliber, but I'm seeing too many weirdo's with spastic pit bulls. One tweaker's Rottweiler lunged at me when I met it on the bike path. Dogs are a definite concern.
My friend got attacked by pit bulls while riding her horse.

 

[Mainsail]

I guess it depends...

I would load some Underwood hollowpoints if it were me.

 

[ispcapt]

Many years ago I helped my uncle in his butcher shop. We dispatched a lot of hogs and beef with 1 shot from a .22 Short.
It's about shot placement. That's been said thousands times thousands of time before. I .22 Short in the right place is more effective than a bad placement with .44 Mag.
When we were issued the S&W 39 I was breaking in a new Troop. We had a car hit deer to dispatch. He emptied his 39 into the deer's head and it was still alive. He complained the 9mm wasn't powerful enough to kill a deer. I had a Ruger Single Six in my squad and used 1 shot to kill the deer. I then showed him where all his 9mm rds had hit. Not a single shot hit the brain. All of his rds hit in the nasal passage of the deer. He didn't know where to aim to kill a deer. He thought he was shooting the deer between the eyes to hit the brain. Not so. His rds were well below the brain.
When people complain X rd won't kill such and such animal because they shot it Umpteen times and it was still alive only shows they didn't hit it in the vitals and tells nothing about the rd they were using.
To answer your question - if you get a brain or spine shot with a .380 it will definitely do the job. Do a lung, shoulder, hip shot and maybe it will deter the animal, maybe not, depends on the determination of the animal, no different than a human getting hit.

 

[Echo40]

Proper shot placement is a lot easier to pull off while hunting animals than it is while they're hunting you. So although it may be extremely easy to take out a dog with a .22 Short by hitting it in just the right spot, I'm not confident in my own ability to do so while one is changing straight at me, has knocked me to the ground, or is biting into my forearm, which is unfortunately going to be the most likely scenario in which I choose to fire a shot at a dog. Otherwise, I don't have any reason nor desire to do so.

Besides, I'm not even sure exactly what I'm dealing with here because I've yet to see what animal is making those sounds, all I can tell is that it's canine. I dunno if it's coyotes, wild dogs, or wolves, all I know is that it doesn't sound friendly and that I'm worried about the possibility that I may one day need to defend myself against it with a weapon which may not be adequate.

So yeah, I'd prefer to carry something that does more damage so that even if my shot placement isn't perfect, then it's still going to make a mess of wherever it does hit.

 

[Piwo]

FWIW, I was a dog warden for years before being a cop. We didn't shoot dogs but had to frequently deal with the aftermath. They were usually OIS, but sometimes citizens had to shoot dogs as well. I can recall two shootings involving 380 auto pistols, both with FMJ ammo. In one instance, a homeowner in the inner city shot a 90 pound German shepherd that was on his front porch. For some reason, the dog would not let the man leave his house...it charged him every time the man came out his front door as he tried to leave for work. The man went into his house and retrieved an Astra Constable 380. One shot with FMJ into the chest from straight on and the dog was DRT. The second incident involved a gas station owner who came to the rescue of a man being mauled by a 50 pound pit bull near his job. 2 rounds of FMJ and the dog was DRT.

As it has been noted here by others...dogs are not that hard to kill, really. I think racoons are more tenacious of life. Shot placement is absolutely the most important consideration, assuming penetration. Hunters understand this. On my department, many officers have had to shoot dogs and it required multiple shots. Why? Usually poor shot placement. In many of these cases the officers blamed the "inadequate" 9mm for instant stops when they had no idea of dog anatomy. I was attacked once by a 60 pound German shepherd/Chow mix that lunged at me. I fired from near contact distance from retention position. The subsonic 147 grain winchester load(the original one) broke his shoulder and completely penetrated the dog lengthwise. It left a nickle size hole on the exit from his hip. He dropped at the shot, got back up biting at both holes, ran a short distance and died. I recall as a Dog Warden that back in the day when Cleveland Police officers shot dogs with the 38 special 158 grain lead swc Plus p (NOT hollow point) there was generally complete penetration from any angle and good stopping effect.

I would think a 380 would be fine, assuming good shot placement. Of course, there are always outliers. An angry 150 pound mastiff that got into his owners meth might be more of a challenge. Any dog engaged in a furious attack would likewise be more of a challenge from the tenacity of life and also marksmanship issues of a quickly moving target. Skill at arms trumps caliber and type of gun.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

If you can hit them, I suspect it would do the trick

 

[Doug M.]

A large dog with a weight closer to a human is mentally tougher than most people. That means that the shot has to be good. My dog walking gun is usually a 296 with Blazer 200 grain Gold Dots, as I expect that if a dog attacks us the shot will be at or near contact distance. In general, if the platform is not one you would carry for personal defense against bad guys, it is probably not a good choice against canids.

Another consideration is that you could run into a PACK, which is a different tactical problem. Dogs gone feral can be quite dangerous and tenacious. I think coyotes are not as much of a problem physically; they are generally small. Wolves are unlikely to want to meet you, but can be big and tough.

 

[SJshooter]

One time I was attacked by a German Shepherd mix in my neighborhood and luckily I had pepper spray on me. The effect was immediate and super effective. I was carrying that day and my predominant thought after the incident was would I have even been able to shoot the dog had I not had the pepper or needed to use more lethal force. The dog was moving around like crazy and the odds I would have hit him one out three shots was probably 50/50. I’m also in a neighborhood with kids running around down the street and houses and cars on both sides of me. I’m not saying I couldn’t have shot the dog, but it would t have been an easy task.

 

[haywood]

Pepper Spray worked for me. I actually missed the dog. The spray went over his head. He got enough of it to make him back down and start sneezing. It was funny. I just walked away glad that I didn’t have to shoot someone’s pet.

 

[Echo40]

The worst part about this situation is that I really don't know precisely what I'm dealing with, I only know that its canine and there are at least a few of them, and that's what worries me most is the idea of getting attacked by a pack of whatever it is as opposed to just one.
Granted, I've heard that in most cases, if you wound one then the others will scatter, but who knows if that's always the case?

Lately I've been avoiding going for walks because of this, which wasn't a big deal because it's been freezing outside anyway, but now Spring is coming, the weather is getting warmer, and I don't want to let fear keep me captive.

Now the problem is that I'm thinking that the low capacity may be a bigger problem than the cartridge, seeing as the Ruger LCP only holds 6 rounds in the magazine, and the same goes for my M&P40 Shield which I typically carry during warm weather.

 

[ladder13]

I have pepper spray but it stays mostly in my car, so not of much use, except if you rush up to my window to say hello.

I too, would hate to shoot someone’s dog, but I’m not getting bit more than once.