Is it enough: 9mm Luger for self-defense?

[ISCS Yoda]

Too many cop videos tell me that 9mm is far from optimal.

How do you define "optimal"? Optimal to me is one round of any caliber stopping a fight. That means one well placed round. It doesn't matter what caliber you use if you miss or don't hit an attacker in a vital spot to stop the fight. Optimal could easily be 12 gauge buckshot and nothing less will do. I just don't think that's very practical. 9mm is quite practical and quite sufficient for self defense.

 

[Erich]

Unequivocally yes.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Only the hits count. A hit with a 9MM hurts more than a miss with a 44 or 45.

 

[Kurusu]

There is no powerfull enough cartridge that could do the trick for you, if you don't do your part.

Free example:
YouTube

 

[fredj338]

I voted yes but with a caveat that one uses good JHP that will expand to 60cal+ & penetrate at least the magic 12". Otherwise you are not much better off than packing a 380 with solids.
If you look at the 3 primary service caliber, 9mm+p, 40 & 45, they all have pretty close to the same ME. I the bullet expands to 60-65cal & penetrates more than 12", pretty much the same affect. Thinking there is some magic to one over the other, nope. A 40 or 45 that expands a bit more will give a slight edge, but only slight, & both are harder to shoot in smaller EDC guns.

 

[fredj338]

How do you define "optimal"? Optimal to me is one round of any caliber stopping a fight. That means one well placed round. It doesn't matter what caliber you use if you miss or don't hit an attacker in a vital spot to stop the fight. Optimal could easily be 12 gauge buckshot and nothing less will do. I just don't think that's very practical. 9mm is quite practical and quite sufficient for self defense.

Yet that really doesn't exist. All calibers have failed with one well placed shot, all.

 

[alwslate]

The 9mm is the best all around auto pistol ctg period. It's the world
standard for good reasons.

 

[Mister X]

Absolutely it is to me.

Plus, I believe the Gen 3 9mm Glocks are about as proven reliable as you can get with an autoloader.

 

[ladder13]

This thread needs more cliche's to go along with the dead horse beating.

 

[Watchdog]

We're way past that whole beating-a-dead-horse thing now.

 

[jinx]

The caliber controversy started at the beginning of time and will continue until the end of time. ALL of the handgun calibers have been proven to be a man stopper. All of those same calibers have proven NOT to be a man stopper. If you are able to place your shot with a particular caliber{ no small feat in the heat of the moment}, then use that one.

 

[wellthought1]

It's mainly about bullet placement. A shot from a quality 124 grain JHP 9mm to the center of the chest would likely be lethal. That same shot to the leg would likely not.

 

[ShivasIrons]

It will do if you will do.

 

[Echo40]

Why does everyone think that this is a Caliber Wars thread?

Honestly, I have two separate statements in bold and colorful text in the OP that this isn't a caliber debate thread, yet folks keep acting like it is even though nobody in the entire thread is treating it as such.

 

[brucev]

Have not shot anyone w/ a handgun or rifle or shotgun. Have shot and seen many more feral dogs, deer and hogs shot. Most shots have been within 150 yds. or so. A few have been at 200 yds. or slightly more. Hits in the chest/heart/lungs have resulted in quick kills. Hits in the rear end, guts, etc. have resulted in poor blood trails, lots of time spent tracking and general grief due to a wounded animal. Have decided that the number one factor in good results on game is good hits. Next is good bullets that will work properly. Caliber is not to big a deal. Anything from .30-30 or .243 Winchester on up is fine. Main thing is hits in the heart/lungs with hopefully a exit wound so as to have a good blood trail if the animal does not immediately collapse.

I figure that the same principles hold with any self-defense type gun/caliber. Most important is good hits. Next is bullets that do the job. Caliber is just not such a big deal.

When it comes to handguns, I have always used whatever was at hand. Early on that was a .38 Special, then a .45 ACP ... then a 9mm. Later it was the .357 S&W Magnum. Then the .45 ACP again ... and later the .40 S&W. Nowadays ... I am completely comfortable with the 9mm. Did some swapping around w/ a LGS that had a 9mm Sig 226 Legion. Extremely pleased in the extreme with this pistol and how it performs. Sincerely. bruce.

 

[RobzGuns]

Why does everyone think that this is a Caliber Wars thread?

Honestly, I have two separate statements in bold and colorful text in the OP that this isn't a caliber debate thread, yet folks keep acting like it is even though nobody in the entire thread is treating it as such.

Maybe it's time to close this thread then.
Even with those clarifying statements, you HAD to know before posting it, what would happen.

 

[pasound]

I have three 9mm pistols. I have 147 Gr Hydroshok, and 147 Gr Hp and JRN. Also 115 Gr and 124 Gr JSP and JRN. The 147 Gr loads always hit the point of aim, and are what I depend on. 9mm is not perfect, but it will work

 

[Watchdog]

While I'll probably get around to revolver cartridges eventually once we've polled all the major semiautomatic pistol cartridges, I'll most likely be shifting the tone to self-defense against wild animals by that point...

I can't tell if you're joking or not, but please don't do that.

That will inevitably get members going on and on again about bear guns or mountain lion guns and proper calibers and loads for them, accompanied by fake YouTube videos of mountain bikers and hikers being chased by bears or mountain lions or moose and elk.

That'll be followed by comments like "If that was me and I'd had my (insert firearm here) with me, that'd be a dead bear (or mountain lion)." Then someone will post that worn out photo of that woman who killed a grizzly with a .22 rifle,

followed by a comment about some guy who killed a mountain lion with his pocket knife.

Then it'll head off into the best way to carry your bear/mountain lion gun.

A thread like that will have "thread drift" written all over it.

This post is all tongue-in-cheek, of course, but...well...you know.

 

[Echo40]

Maybe it's time to close this thread then.
Even with those clarifying statements, you HAD to know before posting it, what would happen.

That won't be necessary.

The vast majority of those commenting on the thread are more relaxed and it's them I'm interested in hearing from anyway. I'm merely baffled by the folks who drop in just to complain about caliber debates which are neither the subject of the thread nor even going on anywhere within and have been discouraged since the beginning.

In the next few days their will be another poll/thread just like this on .40 S&W, then .45 ACP, then 10mm Auto. Heck, I might even throw in .357 SIG or .38 Super in there somewhere as well, haven't decided yet.

If folks want to get all worked up over imaginary caliber debates which aren't even actually occurring within the thread to the point of making passive-aggressive comments on the subject, then that's their prerogative.

Besides, this didn't happen at all in the previous poll/thread on .380 ACP, so it's probably just a few folks who carry 9mm Luger and are insecure about it for some strange reason, ergo they jump to the conclusion that the poll is biased against the cartridge without even reading it.
Hopefully the next thread won't have the same issue.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

Yes it is!
I'm actually posting 'mostly' to subscribe to this thread so I get bombarded with emails from the next posts!
I have two 9mm pistols and like them both (Sig P229 & M&P 2.0 Compact 3.6"), and will probably get one or two more: Cheap tp shoot and reload for. Easy to shoot/practice with. Proven track record.

I'm not sure I will be interested in the .40 S&W poll or the 10mm poll since I don't have, and don't expect to ever buy handguns chambered for those calibers/cartridges, but I'm also here for ed-u-ma-ca-tion and entertainment! (love the beat a dead horse 'clip', but that cow one looks like 'animal cruelty' to me!)

 

[Old TexMex]

Certainly not. That's why the Germans lost the war.

Actually, I voted yes.

 

[Rastoff]

Dirty Harry Callahan,
I can see that you're not going to let this go even though the answer will never change.

Any caliber will do as long as the owner is willing to put in the time. Nothing will be adequate if the owner is not willing to do any work. This is the answer to, "Is caliber X good enough for self-defense" and always will be. You can continue to post these polls, but the result will always be the same.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Dirty Harry Callahan,
I can see that you're not going to let this go even though the answer will never change.

Any caliber will do as long as the owner is willing to put in the time. Nothing will be adequate if the owner is not willing to do any work. This is the answer to, "Is caliber X good enough for self-defense" and always will be. You can continue to post these polls, but the result will always be the same.

I agree. But it's still interesting.

 

[Gundalow]

One of my colleagues investigated an agency shooting incident, Agent had to shoot an armed defendant. The defendant dropped his weapon and just stood there, not realizing he was shot in chest by agent's 9mm. The agent told him to lie down as he was shot. The defendant complied and died at the scene, having been shot through the heart. There have been some other incidents in which Adrenalin has been running high and in which well placed shots in the chest have had no apparent effect on an enraged defendant, allowing him to still do harm before succumbing to the wounds.

Having said that, my weapon of choice if concealment is not an issue is a 9mm, high capacity magazine, hollow points and a Crimson Trace laser sight. I can shoot it instinctively and accurately and am completely comfortable knowing that it will function reliably.

If concealment is an issue, my Model 60 with hollow points and Crimson Trace laser sight, in a pocket holster, is my companion.

 

[Valmet]

More than enough autopsy reports/evidence to vouch for the 9mm's effectiveness as a cartridge. It has been my primary ccw cartridge for years.

 

[LoadedRound]

Well my two most carried are a 6906 and a CS9, so............

 

[Echo40]

Dirty Harry Callahan,
I can see that you're not going to let this go even though the answer will never change.

Any caliber will do as long as the owner is willing to put in the time. Nothing will be adequate if the owner is not willing to do any work. This is the answer to, "Is caliber X good enough for self-defense" and always will be. You can continue to post these polls, but the result will always be the same.

Fortunately, the purpose of this poll isn't to prove nor disprove the effectiveness of any given caliber, nor anything to that effect.

In fact, if anything I've been hoping since the beginning that the popular vote would be the sensible one that every cartridge polled is adequate, regardless of how many options featuring caveats/conditions are presented, so I'm very satisfied in that regard.

However, this is an evolving poll in which each entry will provide additional options based on the results and feedback of the former.
For example, in polls to come I will likely include an option for those who may feel that the cartridge is overpowered for self-defense against humans.

I'm also curious to see if folks will begin voting against certain cartridges, particularly the "9mm is just as good *hooks arm* as .40/.45!" crowd. Not to mention how folks will respond to more niche cartridges like .38 Super, .357 SIG, and 5.7x28 FN.

Rest assured, if folks continue voting for the exact same opinion that the cartridge is enough for primary carry, regardless of caveats, conditions, and alternative options, then I will be very pleased by the enduring sensibility of the userbase when presented with questions that usually prompt endlessly debates which never reach a satisfactory conclusion in the confines of an environment in which such arguing is discouraged.

 

[fredj338]

Why does everyone think that this is a Caliber Wars thread?

Honestly, I have two separate statements in bold and colorful text in the OP that this isn't a caliber debate thread, yet folks keep acting like it is even though nobody in the entire thread is treating it as such.

Because if you dont like their caliber, its a caliber war,

 

[fredj338]

Maybe it's time to close this thread then.
Even with those clarifying statements, you HAD to know before posting it, what would happen.

I love when people dont like a thread but feel the need to respond. If you dont like the thread/poll, move on, dont participate.

 

[Echo40]

Because if you dont like their caliber, its a caliber war,

I've yet to see anyone in this thread express dislike for the 9mm Luger cartridge.