Is my Walther obsolete just becasuse there's newer, lighter, more powerful guns now?

[Echo40]

Most folks in the know colloquially refer to the tool you're speaking of as "the olive fork" due to its appearance. Apparently they used to actually come included with the gun back in the old days, so folks who bought vintage PPKs which included the original box often showed up on the Walther Forums asking what it was.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

This is just a rhetorical question based on what I recall reading in recent years about the Walther PPK/S (or PPK,PP). I love this little Interarms PPK/S .380 I bought a few years back. But it seems with all the more high cap, powerful, lighter, smaller pocket autos out nowadays this gun is relegated to respected nostalgia as a classic gun but impractical compared to the new guns. Personally, I don't automatically think something loses it's usefulness just because of new technology. That's tools, cars, guns, etc. So I'll just stick with the old stuff and watch the world past me by.

Am I obsolete because I'm not 25 & trim anymore"?............Old stuff is GOOD stuff.

 

[sigp220.45]

Most folks in the know colloquially refer to the tool you're speaking of as "the olive fork" due to its appearance. Apparently they used to actually come included with the gun back in the old days, so folks who bought vintage PPKs which included the original box often showed up on the Walther Forums asking what it was.

So that's what that is!

 

[BAM-BAM]

Heck no ....... there's a new James Bond movie about every two years!!!!!

I'm a strong believer that new means "new" not necessarily "better" or "improved"

My stainless .380 PPK dates to the mid-1980s and still gets carried in a Milt Sparks Summer Special when I wear a suit or Tux..... or go to a James Bond movie!!!!!

My Smith 3913 and NL date to the early 90s and are my usual every day carry here in the Burbs or the Burgh.


No reason to change.

Still haven't found a reason to change.....................

 

[SPEEDGUNNER]

Hmmm, let me see...

Compact - check
Slim - check
Ergonomic - check
Smooth - check
Reliable - check
Fit and finish - check
Accurate - check
Cool factor - check

Nope, nothing to see here, time to move along...

 

[Rivoak01]

This is just a rhetorical question based on what I recall reading in recent years about the Walther PPK/S (or PPK,PP). I love this little Interarms PPK/S .380 I bought a few years back. But it seems with all the more high cap, powerful, lighter, smaller pocket autos out nowadays this gun is relegated to respected nostalgia as a classic gun but impractical compared to the new guns. Personally, I don't automatically think something loses it's usefulness just because of new technology. That's tools, cars, guns, etc. So I'll just stick with the old stuff and watch the world past me by.

Well, when it's not summer, I often carry a 1911. They been around over a hundred years. Is it obsolete? It works. I know how to shoot and clean it. I haven't had any real problems with it that an extra part didn't fix. It just ain't the plastic everybody seems to think is so great nowadays.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Mercs]

It became obsolete long ago when this little guy rolled off the line. It packs a punch with 9x18, and oh ya it actually runs too [emoji23]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[scoobysnacker]

In .380 ACP the PPK, nor even it's larger frame offspring the PPK/S has what I would consider "mild" recoil. .32 ACP, maybe, (not sure, never shot a .32) .22LR, definitely, but not in .380 ACP.

I'm no lightweight when it comes to recoil either, I actually somewhat enjoy shooting firearms with some kick like my Taurus Judge Magnum and Mossberg 590 Shockwave, but my S&W PPK/S in .380 ACP is the definition of the term "snappy" with a sharp slap right to the web between the thumb and forefinger that even with the extended beavertail it will draw blood after a good 50+ rounds because it will eventually just beat the knuckle where the thumb meets the hand until it splits open. (Not as bad as slide bite leaving bloody track marks on your hand when firing an older model with a high grip, but it'll leave you with a little cut regardless.)

I think what you're describing is more of the design and layout.

Haven't shot a Walther in .380, but I've shot plenty of 9 Mak pistols. The only one that hurts to shoot is the FEG, which is the one that most closely mimics the Walther. The others don't bother me. Even in .32, that design is painful.

 

[Echo40]

I think the folks who would label the Walther PPK "obsolete" are the same folks who consider Revolvers obsolete, or worse, the aforementioned lot who admittedly carry something like a SIG P238/P938 or a S&W M&P BG38, completely ignorant of the fact that what they're carrying isn't actually new, merely a reintroduction/reimagining of an old design which debuted prior to or around the same time as the PPK.

It became obsolete long ago when this little guy rolled off the line. It packs a punch with 9x18, and oh ya it actually runs too [emoji23]

FEG made top notch Walther derivatives, which is evident considering that Walther themselves granted FEG a license to produce a lower cost alternate to the PPK/S which was basically just their APK-380 MkII dressed up with Walther rollmarks, grips, and smoother machining under the name "Walther PPK/E".

However, they are just that, derivatives of the same design, so to say that it rendered the firearms which it by and large copied makes little sense. Also, bear in mind that the Walther PPK is still in production, whereas last I heard, FEG doesn't even make firearms anymore.

I think what you're describing is more of the design and layout.

Haven't shot a Walther in .380, but I've shot plenty of 9 Mak pistols. The only one that hurts to shoot is the FEG, which is the one that most closely mimics the Walther. The others don't bother me. Even in .32, that design is painful.

Oh, absolutely. Obviously there are a lot of other straight blowback operated pistols with fixed barrels which are softer-shooting than the Walther PP Series. The Walther PP Series was among the first of its kind, with a design dating back to 1929, so obviously newer designs have discovered ways to dampen the recoil.

Most modern examples such as the Bersa Thunder 380 are said to be substantially softer-shooting than even the original Walther PP in .380 ACP.
However, it's worth noting that the Walther PP Series was designed around the .32 ACP cartridge, while the .380 ACP chambering was a more powerful alternative, and if history has taught us anything, it's that chambering a firearm designed for one cartridge in a more powerful cartridge seldom turns out as well as the original, ergo it's to be expected that a firearm designed for .32 ACP is going to have sharper recoil than a firearm designed for 9x18 Makarov and chambered in 9x18 or .380 ACP.

That being said, straight blowback will almost always have snappier recoil than a locked breach, unless of course it's an unfair comparison like comparing the recoil between say a Hi-Point CM380 and a Ruger LCP, completely ignoring the differences in size/weight.

 

[Tadeus67]

My PPKs (1957 Manurhin in 32 ACP, and a 1965 .380) are the guns I carry the most for defensive purposes. Although I own a Glock 42 (wich I like a lot, and is my only Glock), and a S&W M49 . There is just something special about the PPK, its ergonomics, its safety features...I dont really know, but the point is that I dont feel obsolete with any of them.

 

[BB57]

If i had to carry a handgun into combat, I'd take that Makarov any day of the week over the PPK.

The PPK looks nicer, and in the best examples are striking examples of superlative fit, finish and attention to detail.

The Makarov is none of those but has a much better chance of working under non-optimal conditions.

It is it's finicky nature that sours me on the PPK, not it's weight or caliber. .../

/...

I have a number of PP series pistols, and I've sold off a few more.

I have a pair of Ranger made PPK/S pistols that I have no reservations about carrying as they are accurate and reliable with 90 gr XTP ammunition. One of them is in the 12 O'clock position in the picture above.

I also have a pair of Austrian surplus police PP pistols in .32 ACP that are also very reliable. And the round performs well enough in it's 60 gr XTP iteration, although I prefer the .380 ACP. Of them is just below and to the right of the Ranger made PPK/S above.

The other two on the right are a Walther made military proofed PP in .22LR, the British L66A1 version, and a Umarex Walther PPK/S .22LR.

The three on the left side are FEG pistols based on the Walther PP series. Top left is an AP9S. It is a PP sized, steel framed commercial pistol chambered in 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP). Interarms started importing them as an alternative to the PP after Walther discontinued it's arrangement with Manurhin and Walther imports were shakey for a bit. They kept selling them as they sold well and were popular pistols. Interarms ordered them with a very high degree of polish and blue that is quite frankly better than the finish on Walther pistols.

The pistol below at left center is an APK9S. It's also a steel framed commercial pistol chambered in 9mm Kurz/.380 ACP, but using a shorter slide, similar to the PPK/S (thus the "K" for Kurz).

The pistol at bottom left is a KBI SMC. It's an FEG made pistol imported by KBI. It's a smaller PPK sized pistol chambered in .380 ACP but it uses an aluminum frame. It has the distinction of being the smallest pistol imported to the US since the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968. The finger extension is just long enough to meet the 4" height requirement. Unfortunately, KBI didn't spec them at the same level of quality and it's not reliable enough for me to consider it for self defense use.

Not all the FEG AP and APK pistols have the same level of quality.

Below top to bottom:

FEG AP9S
FEG APK9S
FEG APK7S (same as the APK9S, except chambered in 7.62 Browning (.32 ACP)

The bottom pistol was imported by TGI. The polish isn't as nice, the edges are sharper, and the finish isn't a deep blue.

However, all of them are extremely reliable, in part because the chamber dimensions are slightly more generous, making them far less picky about ammo than a PP series pistol.

The grip frames on them are slightly larger than the PP series pistols as they were upsized slightly to accommodate the 9mm Makarov round.

In fact, FEG made the AP9M and APK9M pistols, which are the same as the AP9S and APK9S, except for being chambered in 9mm Makarov.

7-8 years ago they were fairly common in very good to excellent to even like new in box condition for around $300 to $400. Now they are hard to find, even in just "good" condition.

 

[mod34]

I sure hope not!!!

 

[mod34]

Not obsolete but there are a plethora of possible better firearms available in the same weight/size/power/price range so one would be wise to consider the various offerings.

I used a PP in these photos. If you compare it to a Shield and a Glock 43 you immediately see the Walther has serious competition.

Please and respectfully, define "better".

 

[oldcorps76]

Hahaha, I often think the same thing.

My days of shooting sassy bandits are behind me now, but should the need arise I'm sure one of my Colt Pocket Hammerlesses would be up to the task.

.32 or .380? Toss a coin.

I carry guns that I like, and that will do what I need them to do. I'm sure there are guns smaller and lighter and more powerful and with more rounds than either of these two 100 plus year old Colts. I don't care. I like these.

Obsolete? Not hardly. Chuck Heston had one in The Planet of the Apes!

Oh wow...with **three spare two tone magazines*** be still my little heart.....

 

[Islander]

This is just a rhetorical question based on what I recall reading in recent years about the Walther PPK/S (or PPK,PP). I love this little Interarms PPK/S .380 I bought a few years back. But it seems with all the more high cap, powerful, lighter, smaller pocket autos out nowadays this gun is relegated to respected nostalgia as a classic gun but impractical compared to the new guns. Personally, I don't automatically think something loses it's usefulness just because of new technology. That's tools, cars, guns, etc. So I'll just stick with the old stuff and watch the world past me by.

Beauty in blue steel I like it.

 

[mod34]

The Walther PPK/S that I once owned was a jam-o-matic, so I sold it.

A PPK that runs right is not obsolete, but there are plenty of arguably "better" carry pieces.

The Sig P365 weighs less than a PPK, carries 10 +1 rounds, has night sights, is a 9 mm, not a .380 ACP, and does not jam. I consider a Sig P365 to be a significantly better carry piece than a Walther PPK - however, everybody is entitled to their own opinion on this issue.

All of this ridiculous talk about capacity! I suppose I could pose this elsewhere, but, NOT counting LEO, how many of you/us out there has been in a gun fight where we have needed 6-8-10 OR any rounds of capacity????? I'm growing sick and tired of this "capacity" discussion!!!

 

[rockquarry]

All of this ridiculous talk about capacity! I suppose I could pose this elsewhere, but, NOT counting LEO, how many of you/us out there has been in a gun fight where we have needed 6-8-10 OR any rounds of capacity????? I'm growing sick and tired of this "capacity" discussion!!!

mod34, it's refreshing to read some practical comments from someone that's not an obsessive easy chair gunfighter.

 

[BB57]

All of this ridiculous talk about capacity! I suppose I could pose this elsewhere, but, NOT counting LEO, how many of you/us out there has been in a gun fight where we have needed 6-8-10 OR any rounds of capacity????? I'm growing sick and tired of this "capacity" discussion!!!

mod34, it's refreshing to read some practical comments from someone that's not an obsessive easy chair gunfighter.

Even for LEOs large numbers of rounds fired are rare in self defense shoots.

The FBI found that 75% of all agent involved shoots were over and done in 3 shots or less. About 95% of LEO involved shoots involve 5 shots or less. Most of the rest involve situations where multiple officers are involved - usually also involving multiple assailants.

Don't get me wrong, LEOs need to have the capacity for that small percentage of incidents. But the point people miss on forums like this is that arem citizens do not (or at least should not) go looking for trouble in dark and scary places or getting themselves into situations where they are now facing multiple armed assailants.

The should be using good SA to avoid situations like that, and if they end up on one anyway, the firearm should be employed to cover their retreat out of the situation.

Are there armed citizen self defense situations that require more than 5 rounds? Sure. But not many. And as the number of rounds increases to 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10, that percentage gets a LOT smaller.

A PPK/S in .380 ACP will hold 7+1 and there are very, very, very, few situations that can't be resolved with 8 rounds, where 9 or 10, all the way up to 18 will make a difference.

 

[JayFramer]

I recall a few years back I posted a thread about my Bulgarian Makarov and me wanting to carry it concealed.

I remember more than a few curt remarks torwards the "commie gun", and that people here would rather carry their "tried and true" 1911s, Colts, and Smiths.

It seems whenever modern alternatives are presented, people on this forum (read: old geezers) will automatically revert to older and more familiar guns at all costs. Progress gives way to who's got the prettiest, oldest, most expensive gun. The most photogenic or nostalgic morph into the most effective.

What a load of bollocks.

 

[Sundancer2004]

Been carrying a Walter PP .380 since 1972. Gun control is hitting what you intend to shoot be it critter or human varmit. Spray and pray of the high cap pistols goes against stats. The majority of defensive shootings are up close and personal and over in seconds.