Is old loading data good loading data?

I still consult my loading manuals from the 1950s through the 1970s. I want to see if there's anything I'm missing.

Other than the target?

OV


I rarely approach max loads--haven't found them best for my purposes--so the differences between old & new data isn't very relevant. Still, I lean toward the newer limits.
 
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+1 on full bore loads not being the best for my use........

98%of the time 100% loads give me "Blown Patterns" in all my weapons.
Never had one 100% trap load that was the best and only one
105% "Winter Load" in my 270, that was any good.
All my other rifle and pistol loads were under 100% if I wanted accuracy.
However at five feet for a revolver SD loading, a few were good enough, for a reload.
 
'70's is OLD??????

I have old stuff too, and my early 70's Sierra (HUNTING loads) are pretty hot. It had a load 1 grain over max. for .38 Special. I had a Model 10 in very good shape so I tried going .2 grain over present data. Then I tried .4 grains over test data. I decided that was max for me, but I would normally use the .2 over present data. I didn't feel it was 'unsafe', but they were getting raucous and I had .6 gr to go.

One reason I like old data is for things like much reduced loads in rifles for 'youth' and fun loads. If they use the same powder, you can get a clue as to where to start and go easy from there. I make 30-06 loads that go 1700 fps. Boy are they fun to shoot and plink with.
 
Just to be clear, I was not trying to load to a max loading. I see no purpose in beating up the firearm nor myself with max power loads. I was using the max listed loads as a point of reference. I wanted to load the 38 Super, 130 grain FMJ to 6.6 grains of HERCO. That charge was below the 7.7 grains listed in the Lyman #45 but above the 6.3 grains listed in the Lyman #48. That’s what initiated my curiosity and generated my question.
 
You'd be surprised how much old data is in newer manuals. Some may also be surprised by some of the errors in manuals. Especially like references that list pressures, be it in cup or psi.

Also like to keep and reference old manuals, they have a lot of value besides just data.
 
I have load data going back to at least the late 20's . A lot of it is still valid and the rest is for powders that haven't been on the market for over 50 years . Coincidentally that is almost how long I have been loading . Use your old data by doing as you mentioned above and you should have no problems , start low and work up slowly if you feel the need .

Eddie
 
I have been hand loading since the mid 70". Once I figured out the 100% full bore loads weren't all that accurate and were hard on the guns and the hand that held them, the loads recommended by Skeeter Skelton worked just fine.
Have been using his 90% loads for all these years, have his favorites written down in a note book, and a couple of old Speer manuals are all I need. Some Unique,2400 and 296/H110 and the basic lead SWC, JSP and JHP bullets and I am good to go.
 
Hi,
Here's a follow up to my earlier post (Post #2).
This is Lyman Reloading Manual #38 from 1951.
For my purposes, it's awesome!
Great cast bullet loads for everything. And, look at those great revolver loads. Imagine being back in the day, casting bullets for your 5 screw N frame Target..... 44 Special, 38/44, 45 AR, etc.
Oh wait, that's my loading routine today! Ha!

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/OM/IdealHandbook38.pdf

Pistol Data doesn't show until page 95.

Best Regards to y'all,
Jim
 
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Hi,
Here's a follow up to my earlier post (Post #2).
This is Lyman Reloading Manual #38 from 1951.
For my purposes, it's awesome!
Great cast bullet loads for everything. And, look at those great revolver loads. Imagine being back in the day, casting bullets for your 5 screw N frame Target..... 44 Special, 38/44, 45 AR, etc.
Oh wait, that's my loading routine today! Ha!

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/OM/IdealHandbook38.pdf

Pistol Data doesn't show until page 95.

Best Regards to y'all,
Jim

Thanks for posting this, Jim!
 
I almost never reload to max. I Never Ever reload over max..

A while back I came across a box of my 45acp reloads. The label indicated they were 230 XTP with 9.0 grs. HS6.

I grabbed my 9th edition of my Hornady reloading manual to look up the load.. :eek: max load 8.2 grs , WTH ?? :eek:

Had to go to my Hornady 3rd edition to find,, 9.7 grs max.??

I have shot and chrono the loads out of my 5" 1911 ,, 230 XTP at 925 fps.
?? all of a sudden rather than being .7 grs. under max. they are now .8 grs. over max. ?? :confused: :confused:

( edit: I have several brands and editions of reloading manuals,, and I Always cross reference 2 or 3 reloading manuals when working up a new load )
 
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I almost never reload to max. I Never Ever reload over max..

A while back I came across a box of my 45acp reloads. The label indicated they were 230 XTP with 9.0 grs. HS6.

I grabbed my 9th edition of my Hornady reloading manual to look up the load.. :eek: max load 8.2 grs , WTH ?? :eek:

Had to go to my Hornady 3rd edition to find,, 9.7 grs max.??

I have shot and chrono the loads out of my 5" 1911 ,, 230 XTP at 925 fps.
?? all of a sudden rather than being .7 grs. under max. they are now .8 grs. over max. ?? :confused: :confused:

( edit: I have several brands and editions of reloading manuals,, and I Always cross reference 2 or 3 reloading manuals when working up a new load )

This is what you are supposed to do. There is a practical max, the data with that gun on that day, then there is realistic max, which is what ever it is in your gun with your components in your location.
 
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"The Lyman #48 - much more recent - shows 6.3 max for the same combo. All the other recent manuals I have show a 6.2/6.3 max for the HERCO/130 grain bullet. The Lyman #45 is the outlier. Loading sense would dictate that the consensus view point is to use the more recent load data. Interesting and the safer approach."

Hotter loads are not a problem for the .38 Super. Many shoot 9x23 Winchester (or equivalent handloads) in .38 Super pistols, and the 9x23 reaches max chamber pressures of about 45Kpsi. The weak link is the cartridge case strength. Nonetheless, I have fired some very hot loads in .38 Super cases which did not let go even in the Colt barrel with a partially unsupported area. 9x23 cases have thicker and heavier bases than .38 Super to better withstand high pressures.
 
This is what you are supposed to do. There is a practical max, the data with that gun on that day, then there is realistic max, which is what ever it is in your gun with your components in your location.

fred, I understand your point.
Long range rifle shooters with ,, custom barrels ,, custom actions ,, wildcat calibers, etc.. play with OAL , max powder charge,, brand of primers,,, etc. etc.

Bullseye pistol shooters wanted enough powder to work the action ,, be accurate,, and punch a hole in a paper target at 50 ft.
USPSA shooters have to make power factor with the least amount of recoil. Years ago they pushed 38 super and even 9mm Way past the suggested max.. ( and still do )

Shotgun reloading manual indicate the loading recipes should be strictly followed with no substitutions .

So, when you are a newbie ,, or even an old fart that has been reloading for years,, and one manual stating 6 grs of XYZ is max.. one saids 8 grs. is max. ,,, and one saids 10 grs.
Is starting at 10% less ,,, 5.4 grs. or 9 grs. ?? :D

I've been reloading for 40 + years and sometimes the reloading manuals have me scratching my head and wonder WTH ?? :D :eek:..
 
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fred, I understand your point.
Long range rifle shooters with ,, custom barrels ,, custom actions ,, wildcat calibers, etc.. play with OAL , max powder charge,, brand of primers,,, etc. etc.

Bullseye pistol shooters wanted enough powder to work the action ,, be accurate,, and punch a hole in a paper target at 50 ft.
USPSA shooters have to make power factor with the least amount of recoil. Years ago they pushed 38 super and even 9mm Way past the suggested max.. ( and still do )

Shotgun reloading manual indicate the loading recipes should be strictly followed with no substitutions .

So, when you are a newbie ,, or even an old fart that has been reloading for years,, and one manual stating 6 grs of XYZ is max.. one saids 8 grs. is max. ,,, and one saids 10 grs.
Is starting at 10% less ,,, 5.4 grs. or 9 grs. ?? :D

I've been reloading for 40 + years and sometimes the reloading manuals have me scratching my head and wonder WTH ?? :D :eek:..
Which is why I teach 3 vetted sources for data in my classes. I use avg data when working with a new powder/bullet. I rarely use starting data but pick a charge wt giving me the approx vel I want & start there. If I am working to max vel, its in very small increases & using a chrono to plot vel gain.
 
Wasn't it 43,500psi or around 46k cup??

Whatever it is brutal.:eek:

Anyway, they made K frames which couldn't handle the pressure. Some folks like to shoot 357 mag out of Scandium snubs!:eek:

I've shot 357's from my Scandium J Frame I'm definitely not a fan! 5 shots were enough for me. I now stoke it up with Speer Gold Dot 38's. I do like the weight of it though 12 oz. Just about my every day carry actually slipped into a Kramer horse hide pocket holster, I'm good to go.
'
 
I've shot 357's from my Scandium J Frame I'm definitely not a fan! 5 shots were enough for me. I now stoke it up with Speer Gold Dot 38's. I do like the weight of it though 12 oz. Just about my every day carry actually slipped into a Kramer horse hide pocket holster, I'm good to go.
'

I have shot the BB 158gr 38+P special (and my duplicates)out of a 642 and that was brutal. No more, no thanks . Can not see the sense. The 110gr regular loads are good enough at 10 feet. :D
 
A couple of years ago, I did an inventory of my powders. I came across several cans of powder that I bought in the late 70s when my local hometown dealer was moving dead stock for cheap. Mostly old Winchester Ball powders. This was during one of those times when Win. decided to revamp their powder lineup. So I ended up with 450LS 230P 680 and a couple of others that I can't remember (they are in the stash in the basement and I am not) Because I have old manuals that have data in them showing the use for these powders, I have been trying to use them up. And at my age and current skill level they still work fine even if they aren't the first or best choice. I figure if I don't get this powder used it will just end up at the hazmat disposal days held by the SO and be burned up. So, I decided to burn it up one shot at a time! So, in answer to the OP's question: Yes sometimes the old load data still has value.
 
Hi,
Here's a follow up to my earlier post (Post #2).
This is Lyman Reloading Manual #38 from 1951.


http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/OM/IdealHandbook38.pdf

Pistol Data doesn't show until page 95.

Best Regards to y'all,
Jim

Thanks for a need piece of history. Skimmed through it. What I found very interesting was some of the calibers listed 45-90, 25-35, 38-55. 401&405 Winchester. What was missing was also interesting, 223, 22-250, 25-06, 308, 7mm WM, 300WM, 338WM.

Lot of on every store shelf calibers didn't even exist and some that are listed would be impossible to find.

I have some older books I inherited from my step dad. I look up some old stuff once in the while. I keep a couple old 25-35 and a 35 Remington in the family in ammo
 
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