Is s&w replacing parts or just modifing existing parts for their known issues mp15-22

[ChattanoogaPhil]

FYI, my hand got burnt (partially my fault) because I was holding a bucket about a foot from the ejection port to collect brass for primer strike inspection, etc. Nevertheless thats not normal and has never happened to me before..........It was also a very loud report, obviously due to the case rupturing.

Next time you're shooting the 15-22 while holding a bucket to catch the brass.... could you please video and post it here. I'd love to see your technique.... and it's sure to be a hit among many here.

 

[BELT_FED]

Next time you're shooting the 15-22 while holding a bucket to catch the brass.... could you please video and post it here. I'd love to see your technique.... and it's sure to be a hit among many here.

+ 1 for this sounds like quallity entertainment lol

 

[fishinbill85]

By fixing the rifle under warranty, they are by definition, not pretending nothing happened. They could have just as easily claimed that it was bad ammo, improper use, etc. They could have easily told you to go pound sand. But they didn't. They took the rifle back under warranty, on their dime, on your word. If that's not good customer service, I'm not sure what is. They have already gone "above and beyond".
As far as you getting your hand burnt, that's all on you. You were purposefully holding your hand in front of the ejection port, which is commonly known to launch hot brass, hot carbon, and other crap out of the side of the rifle. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. Sometimes stupid hurts.

If we were talking about one or two or one hundred instances I could agree, but there are several hundred or maybe even thousands of instances of things like this happening (to this rifle). Fixing this under "warranty" no longer cuts it, they should be thinking recall at this time. I have not read about many instances of the rifles malfunctioning after the trip back to S&W, so that tells me that they are doing something right to repair and prevent this from happening. If so then S&W should be proactive in remedying this issue BEFORE it reaches consumer hands, agree?



You know as much as I hate to say it.......WHERE'S MY SIGN!

Sometimes non-ignorant people do flat out questionable (read: STUPID) things (2008-2009 were prime examples............). Sometimes we all need another person or two around to act as other "consciences" to ward off hazardous ideas. EVERBODY has done or was about to do something, at least once in their lives, concerning firearms, that was just plain dumb. Some caught it before, some didn't and looked back saying,"I can't believe I actually did that, what the hell is wrong with me?"

With all things aside, when this rifle gets back, I'm gonna shoot the fire out of it (no pun intended) because I'm not dead and I still like it.

 

[27 Beck]

If we were talking about one or two or one hundred instances I could agree, but there are several hundred or maybe even thousands of instances of things like this happening (to this rifle). Fixing this under "warranty" no longer cuts it, they should be thinking recall at this time. I have not read about many instances of the rifles malfunctioning after the trip back to S&W, so that tells me that they are doing something right to repair and prevent this from happening. If so then S&W should be proactive in remedying this issue BEFORE it reaches consumer hands, agree?

Where are you getting your several hundred or even thousands numbers from?

S&W is taking care of the problems as they occur. Seems fair enough to me.

Recall only occurs when a safety issue with gun blowing up or shooting when safety is engaged. The problems here on the forum are all inconveniences.

 

[fishinbill85]

I did not state those figures as fact. Peruse the internet and read about mp 15-22 issues, there are very many other internet disscussion forums in existance and this subject is relatively common. Also, let's not be naive to the fact that there are a great deal more people who do NOT participate in internet disscussion forums, especially this one, so there are cases that are not heard about at all (here/other forums).

I was simply stating that as an estimate. But I still believe S&W can and should be more proactive than reactive regarding this issue. Do you think that S&W is actually going to disclose just how many units have been repaired or how many are lined up for repair? If they know of a potential issue, especially one that can be fixed on a "permanent basis"(loose term), why would they not make the adjustments at the factory before they find their way into consumers hands and let people find out,"the hard way"?

I'm mostly irritated because I won't be able to shoot my rifle for almost 2 weeks. I'm going through withdrawals.

 

[Thomas_H]

If they know of a potential issue, especially one that can be fixed on a "permanent basis"(loose term), why would they not make the adjustments at the factory before they find their way into consumers hands and let people find out,"the hard way"?

Consider for a moment that they didn't know about the problem before it got into your hands. And that's assuming that's it's actually a problem with the rifle and not out of spec ammo.

There are alot of factors out of S&W's control that can directly lead to a OOB discharge. Improper or lack of cleaning, lack of lube, or use of incorrect lube (especially in cold weather), home gunsmithing (trigger jobs), user damage due to improper handling of parts when field stripped (bolt carrier rails are bent easily), inconsistent bulk ammo that is packaged poorly and often mishandled in transport/stocking. I could probably come up with 10 or 20 more possible causes, but I think you get the point.

It would be pretty stupid for S&W to issue a recall unless they can definitively say that a specific design/material flaw of the rifle leads to a dangerous situation, especially since they are a publicly traded company.

I'm not saying that there's not a problem with your rifle. There very well could be. But at this point, you're assuming quite a bit saying that there is. The only thing you know at this point is you had an OOB discharge which damaged the extractor. That sucks. But unless you can state definitively what caused it to happen, you really can't place blame on S&W's feet yet. And the fact is, even if your rifle runs 100% when you get it back, it still doesn't doesn't mean that anything was wrong with the rifle. It could have been caused by any number of factors.

Rimfire OOB's are not uncommon. Should the extractor be stonger? Sure. But it's a completely separate issue and probably has nothing to do with the root cause. It would be nice if they could set up the hammer/bolt timing so that it could not strike the firing pin until it was completely in battery, but that is next to impossible with a blow-back rimfire.

On a side note, assuming the rifle is at fault, if I had to guess what the problem is, the first thing I would be looking at is the chamber dimensions. A tight or out of spec chamber could very easily cause the problem. In fact, if it's a true match grade chamber (which I don't think it is), it could explain a lot. The only other possibility I can think of is a hammer follow. But short of a disconnector failure, that's next to impossible with this rifle. The action geometry just will not allow it.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

fishinbill,

Your logic sounds pretty bullet-proof to me. -- If S&W can remedy and "Update to Current Spec" rifles that are returned to them, then they can certainly "Update to Current Spec" rifles that have not yet sold. End of story. The remaining question is 'should they'? That is an answer based on an equation of sales/reputation/liability/cost. So far the answer has been NO, and to publicly play dumb about any issues.

That being said, I am reading about more and more 15-22s having been returned multiple times to S&W. Perhaps S&W is perplexed about what is causing their product failures or they are simply 'Updating to BS Specs" and don't give a darn. I don't pretend to know.

ps. I suspect that 15-22 return levels are well into 4 figures by now.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Consider for a moment that they didn't know about the problem

Consider for a moment the 15-22 is a sub MOA rifle.

 

[BELT_FED]

lol funny

 

[rip3000gt]

ps. I suspect that 15-22 return levels are well into 4 figures by now.

I'm guessing mine will be the one to put them into the 4 figures.

I was out today and put about 350 rounds through it and then I heard a loud bang, looked down and no more extractor.. There was a casing half in the chamber and the back half was crushed with the bottom of the shell looking like someone took a can opener and opened half a tin can.
its going out as soon as I get the shipping labels emailed to me.

Before this I had around 900 rounds through it, I only ever had 5 jams, and thought I had a lucky one. guess not. so I guess it can happen to anyone at anytime.

 

[27 Beck]

I'm guessing mine will be the one to put them into the 4 figures.

I was out today and put about 350 rounds through it and then I heard a loud bang, looked down and no more extractor.. There was a casing half in the chamber and the back half was crushed with the bottom of the shell looking like someone took a can opener and opened half a tin can.
its going out as soon as I get the shipping labels emailed to me.

Before this I had around 900 rounds through it, I only ever had 5 jams, and thought I had a lucky one. guess not. so I guess it can happen to anyone at anytime.

Sigh. Sounds like an OOB. What ammo were you shooting?

 

[BELT_FED]

i can allmost guess... anyone wanna take bets on what kinda ammo he was useing

 

[27 Beck]

i can allmost guess... anyone wanna take bets on what kinda ammo he was useing

(RGBs)

 

[BELT_FED]

thats where my money would be

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

its going out as soon as I get the shipping labels emailed to me. Before this I had around 900 rounds through it, I only ever had 5 jams, and thought I had a lucky one. guess not. so I guess it can happen to anyone at anytime.

Sorry to hear of it. And yes, the 15-22 seems to fail at any time. As I remember, Chuck was quite please with his until the kaboom.

I pre-ordered a return label to S&W several weeks ago.

 

[rip3000gt]

Sigh. Sounds like an OOB. What ammo were you shooting?

i can allmost guess... anyone wanna take bets on what kinda ammo he was useing

(RGBs)

thats where my money would be

and the winner is...


Well you are all right, kinda

They were Remington but not the "golden bullet" well I guess that is what they would call them now. I was actually shooting up some older 22's that have been sitting around here for years. They were always kept dry and at room temp just were forgotten about for a long time. Not sure of the date but there isn't a bar code on the box and there is a price sticker from K-Mart for $8.99 (box of 10 boxes of 50) I still have about 8 more boxes of this stuff, I guess i'll leave it to the bolt action guns.

 

[Thomas_H]

Keep a close eye out for overly waxed bullets. This can really gum up a chamber.

 

[vikz22]

I got mine back yesterday and shot close to 350 rounds and did not have anymore FTE's or FTF's..thanks smith and wesson guys..