Nframe357
Member
Yep and good riddance! Just another worthless round that does nothing existing rounds don't already do, like the 17 hmr etc. There's a reason not many makers chambered it...
Is the .45 GAP round dead?
- Thread starter M&P777
- Start date
dennis40x
US Veteran
Yes that's the intent. The comment in regards to the 357-SIG & 45-GAP being basically law enforcement orientated true also.
Simply put some comments on this subject are simply a common dislike of Glock. Like Glock or not they being Glock forced S&W into the Polymer pistol market. To compete with Glock, S&W went thru Sigma, SW99 and MP series pistols to be come competitive.
The Glock 37 et al are a bit bigger in frame dimensions than the current 17/22/31. I dont think they fit the same holsters. An 8 to 10 shot .45 ACP Glock would have been a hot item.
The Glock 37 does in fact have the same exact frame as a G17 or G22. The slide is a little wider though. Don't think the same holsters fit.
I have many 45 Auto's. I have a Glock 37. I shoot the G37 much more, and I can even find ammo for it! It does answer a question, as stated above.
I love how people who hate the GAP always say that it can't match 45 Auto +P ballistics. These are usually the same people, who when comparing 45 Auto to anything else say "No need for +P, standard pressure is all you need".
Hey, if you don't like it, fine. I never saw any 41 AE's issued to State agencies though......
I have many 45 Auto's. I have a Glock 37. I shoot the G37 much more, and I can even find ammo for it! It does answer a question, as stated above.
I love how people who hate the GAP always say that it can't match 45 Auto +P ballistics. These are usually the same people, who when comparing 45 Auto to anything else say "No need for +P, standard pressure is all you need".
Hey, if you don't like it, fine. I never saw any 41 AE's issued to State agencies though......
i think Glock tried very hard to keep the slide dimensions the same (in order to use the same holsters) but in the end couldn't quite do it. But as mbinky states, the frame is same size.
If I had a hankering for a 45 caliber Glock, I'd consider the 45GAP. I've shot the 21 and it does well for me, but truly the grip is a tad large for me. A 21SF, with its slight grip reduction, would probably be just enough help. But having a 9mm Glock and being comfortable with it, it would make some sense to at least consider an identical grip frame.
If I had a hankering for a 45 caliber Glock, I'd consider the 45GAP. I've shot the 21 and it does well for me, but truly the grip is a tad large for me. A 21SF, with its slight grip reduction, would probably be just enough help. But having a 9mm Glock and being comfortable with it, it would make some sense to at least consider an identical grip frame.
sheriffoconee
Member
My duty weapon is a Glock 38. I carry it by choice, not because of a "mandate". I am the boss. I too thought it was an answer in search of a question, until I got some trigger time with it. In the G38, it fits my hand, fits MOST of the holsters I had for my G23's, etc...
It's accurate. It is reliable. I like the 45 caliber bullet in a 9mm frame.
No, ammo isn't in white boxes on WalMart shelves. The ACE Hardware in East Jesus Kentucky won't have boxes of it for sale on the shelves.
Ammo is available. As someone else mentioned, when the "run" on ammo this year was at it's worst, most well stocked stores had GAP on the shelves, along with 357 Sig.
1000 rounds of duty ammo for the GAP runs $330 bucks in todays prices, 20 bucks a thousand less than the same ammo in ACP from our supplier.
Try it and see what you think, or dismiss it without shooting it based on principal...the choice is yours.
It's accurate. It is reliable. I like the 45 caliber bullet in a 9mm frame.
No, ammo isn't in white boxes on WalMart shelves. The ACE Hardware in East Jesus Kentucky won't have boxes of it for sale on the shelves.
Ammo is available. As someone else mentioned, when the "run" on ammo this year was at it's worst, most well stocked stores had GAP on the shelves, along with 357 Sig.
1000 rounds of duty ammo for the GAP runs $330 bucks in todays prices, 20 bucks a thousand less than the same ammo in ACP from our supplier.
Try it and see what you think, or dismiss it without shooting it based on principal...the choice is yours.
Gun&KnifeCountry
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I think the GAP has some potential in limited areas. Mostly in small frame guns and hideouts. Think about a 3913 size gun with a 45 hole. If Springfield could get it to work in their little EMP it might be nice.
Yes, but does that answer validate carrying nine rounds less on a standard gun belt? You almost gain an extra magazine by going with the Glock 21 over the 37... I've seen small framed people learn to shoot pretty large guns; it is called training.
Personally, I think departments should look into that FiveSeven pistol... especially after that Fort Hood shooting. If you are going to go with something new, test other designs and see what works better.
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WildCard ZX6R
Member
Huh ? G37 holds ten, G21 holds 13. Not much of a difference.
5.7x28 is not a very good anti-personnel round. It was designed to penetrate soft armor in a pistol sized package for people who can not carry a rifle (P90). Not rapidly stop unarmored subjects at close range.
If the fort hood shooter had used a 9mm or better, i think the death toll would have been much higher ...
ammoman
Member
.45 GAP
I use them in my S&W M-25-2 with half moon clips, for bullseye. They work great. When I find some they are usually very inexpensive, and I buy a bunch. I also reload them.
Best Regards
ammoman
I use them in my S&W M-25-2 with half moon clips, for bullseye. They work great. When I find some they are usually very inexpensive, and I buy a bunch. I also reload them.
Best Regards
ammoman
13x3=39+1=40
10x3=30+1=31
I did specify gun belt, being this is about departments making a move to the GAP. With that, you are gaining an extra nine rounds with the Glock 21... which is just one round shy of a full 37 magazine.
If you are going to say that it does not matter, then why was there a need to move away from revolvers... I've seen eight shot .357s.
WildCard ZX6R
Member
I see what you're saying now, but why not just carry one extra magazine ?
Was there really a NEED to move away from revolvers ? Save for occasions like the North Hollywood bank robbery (which any handgun would have been pretty much worthless anyway) i really don't think that most cops are going to be getting into extended gun battles with sidearms that require large volumes of ammunition or even reloading for that matter.
Personally i would rather have a six shot .357 or a 7 shot 1911 than a big, bulky G21 that i cannot shoot comfortably or accurately.
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If everyone was worried about capacity, they probably wouldn't be going with a 45. Most of the agencies transitioning to GAP are not going from 45 auto, but from 9mm and 40 S&W. So obviously, capacity isn't an issue to them.
The best training in the world won't make my hands grow large enough to hold a G21 comfortably.
There was one thread, either on BerettaForum or AR15.com, where one officer was talking about his department going with the 37 from the 22 (Glock pushed it). He mentioned that most officers hated them, due to capacity and ammo costs, which resulted them switching to the 21.
sheriffoconee
Member
I have done business with Glock as a CLEO of an agency that issues Glocks for 17 years....Glock doesn't care WHAT Glock you buy...to claim that Glock "pushed" something seems, well, not worthy of belief in my experience. Glock will supply you with whatever you want, and if you want to test different Glocks, they will bring a "box o Glocks" to your range and let you shoot them all.
Ammo costs are the same from my suppliers....
As far as issuing handguns, rifles, shotguns, pepper spray, hats, shirts, boots, ammo, patrol cars or anything else that EVERYONE likes, well, that ain't ever gonna happen.
sheriffoconee
Member
That makes more sense....I have had a lot of dealings with Glock distributors, they price the guns, then offer a trade in value on whatever the agency is going to swap for (assuming a swap of course) The price of the weapons is usually the same, the trade value varies per distributor.
We can sell the guns to individual officers for the trade value, or turn in what isn't bought. We always sell every one of the trade in pistols.
We can sell the guns to individual officers for the trade value, or turn in what isn't bought. We always sell every one of the trade in pistols.
Landric
Member
I think that the .45 GAP is a perfectly good cartridge. It offers most of what the .45 ACP does, so running it down for its performance really doesn't make any sense. While it may not be able to duplicate +P .45 ACP, I'm one of those folks that doesn't think the .45 ACP is in need of +P anyway. I don't own anything in .45 GAP, but I have shot guns so chambered, and it works fine.
That said, I too think that its a solution in search of a problem. Ammunition availability, not accounting for the recent madness, has historically never been as good as .45 ACP. There are few guns chambered for it, and if that trend continues it will probably slip away into obscurity. It really can't do anything the .45 ACP can't do except fit into a slightly smaller grip frame. With the advent of guns like the M&P45 even that "advantage" is questionable. I have also found that .45 ACP single stack autos tend to have much more comfortable grip frames than smaller cartridge double stack ones. Given the huge number of 8+1 single stack .45 ACP pistols out there, it doesn't make much sense to change to a different cartridge that may or may not be around in five years to gain two rounds per magazine.
That said, I too think that its a solution in search of a problem. Ammunition availability, not accounting for the recent madness, has historically never been as good as .45 ACP. There are few guns chambered for it, and if that trend continues it will probably slip away into obscurity. It really can't do anything the .45 ACP can't do except fit into a slightly smaller grip frame. With the advent of guns like the M&P45 even that "advantage" is questionable. I have also found that .45 ACP single stack autos tend to have much more comfortable grip frames than smaller cartridge double stack ones. Given the huge number of 8+1 single stack .45 ACP pistols out there, it doesn't make much sense to change to a different cartridge that may or may not be around in five years to gain two rounds per magazine.
For handgun fighting distances, the 45 GAP is just fine I'm sure. If I am on the way to a call where I already KNOW there is a shooter, I'm getting out with the patrol rifle and may transition to the G22 as needed. Placement, skill, confidence, and mindset wins gunfights-- not any majic caliber from any manufacturer.
