OP
blackemmons
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 56
- Reaction score
- 23
"One bad apple can make the whole barrel SMELL." Yup. And I had two of 'um. Thanks for the input.
Last edited:
Is the Model 41.........
- Thread starter blackemmons
- Start date
S&W-Keeper
Member
I have a model 41 from 1976,it is the biggest pain in the butt that I have ever had.I have the same problems.Failure to feed,failure to extract. Failure to fire.When it shoots it shoots in the same hole.I take it out of the safe ever couple of years to see if it is any better.I have tried all brands of ammo.I probably should sell it.
OP
blackemmons
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 56
- Reaction score
- 23
S&W-Keeper, Thanks. I would have thought a 1976 model would have been great. So how did this gun get such and excellent reputation? I wonder what percentage of owners have issues and just don't say anything.
I've moved on and purchased another suppressor. Now we start the ATF wait again(9 months last time). Perhaps it will be my Christmas present.
n c rod
Member
41 issues
Forget S&W factory service. Send it to a gunsmith that CAN fix a 41. Clark David Sams KC Custom. It's not a perfect world but if it's man made it can be fixed.
Forget S&W factory service. Send it to a gunsmith that CAN fix a 41. Clark David Sams KC Custom. It's not a perfect world but if it's man made it can be fixed.
Blackemmons. First of i would like to say hello im new to the page. My family has worked at the plant for the last 100 years if not longer than that. My father is a 1st shift shooter pistol .he has been ther over 42 years besides his stay in the army in between. His service award 41 is beautiful and works like a dream. I feal it is equivalent to the originals. Only difference is the process. The old ones where more hand onand the old timers really new there ****. The factory now still runs out a temp office on new employees and the training is not as it used tp be but the top people like my father and others still around do there jobs very well. If you would like if its still at the factory i can aask my father to take a look for you and see if anything special can be done. If it was me and you have it. try running some high velocity through it sometimes can help brake it in. I had issues with my m&p 40 and it went back to factory 2ce they took very good care of me. Sorry you have to go through this but it happens from time to time. But let me know if you want me to drop a line for you and get some inside attention i might be able to help. Thanks for the post im glad i stumbled across this page. Smith and wesson has been a family staple has kept us fead and clothed and is a good company.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2015
- Messages
- 1,358
- Reaction score
- 1,576
I bought mine in the mid 90s because Ihad a friend in the 80s that had a 41 and it was great. Accurate and reliable. I think there are a lot of 41s that fit that description, probably the majority of them. The internet has a megaphone effect and those of us with problem 41s are the ones most likely to post.
In my case the big problem was I kept reading that the 41 was designed for standard velocity ammo, CCI standard in particular, and should not be fed high velocity ammo. It may have been designed for that ammo but mine hates it. Thirty years ago I would have read the manual and seen no restrictions on ammo, noticed that it runs great with CCI Minimags but not standard velocity and happily used Minimags while bragging about how great my 41 is. Instead I wasted a lot of time posting here and changing parts trying to get it to run right with CCI standard velocity.
Last edited:
OP
blackemmons
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 56
- Reaction score
- 23
n c rod: I refuse to send a new $1,400 gun to a gunsmith to get it to the level of quality it should have come from the factory with. I have returned the gun to the FFL and got my money back. Thanks.
OP
blackemmons
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 56
- Reaction score
- 23
Minuteman413: Thanks for the offer but I no longer have the gun. As for SW, I'm done with the new stuff. The only guns I have returned to the factory in recent years are SW's. They are easy to work with but if it doesn't get repaired it makes no difference.
OP
blackemmons
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 56
- Reaction score
- 23
Dave Lively - As previously stated, I purchased the 41 because it was suppose to like CCI Standard Velocity. Where I live, I don't need the sonic boom of supersonic ammo. It's over for me.
Blackemmons, I understand your frustration; but at least you got your money back.
I have been a Smith & Wesson fanboy all my life. I've been buying their guns for over 40 years; and will continue to do so.
I’ve had to send a couple of guns back, and they promptly fixed the problem. A couple of years ago I bought a “Performance Center” C.O.R.E. that was an absolute ***. The trigger was the worst I have ever seen on a handgun. After sending it in, and getting it back, with them saying it was “Okay”; it was still terrible, they did nothing.
I assumed it must just be a CS person that didn’t want to do their job, so I wrote a letter and sent copies to the President and the Firearms Director of S&W. I was immediately contacted by a CS person that said he had just come from the Firearms Directors office and was told to fix the problem. Great! The problem will be fixed.
But unfortunately not. After sending it in a second time, it was sent back again saying it was okay. I feel like I had a CS person that wanted me to know who was running the CS Department, and it wasn’t the Firearms Director. I gave up and bought an Apex trigger.
So no, you shouldn’t have to send your $1400 gun to a third party to make it perform right. Luckily I could do mine myself, but unfortunately for me I couldn’t get my money back. I’ll never waste my money on a “Performance Center” product again.
I’m a recently retired Toolmaker. Other than a few years as a cop; I’ve spent most of my life in manufacturing. The capabilities are far better than they were in “the old days”. The guns from back then would not be any better; I know that because I was buying them and still have some. what has changed is how Smith & Wesson responds to the problem. They don’t care.
I have been a Smith & Wesson fanboy all my life. I've been buying their guns for over 40 years; and will continue to do so.
I’ve had to send a couple of guns back, and they promptly fixed the problem. A couple of years ago I bought a “Performance Center” C.O.R.E. that was an absolute ***. The trigger was the worst I have ever seen on a handgun. After sending it in, and getting it back, with them saying it was “Okay”; it was still terrible, they did nothing.
I assumed it must just be a CS person that didn’t want to do their job, so I wrote a letter and sent copies to the President and the Firearms Director of S&W. I was immediately contacted by a CS person that said he had just come from the Firearms Directors office and was told to fix the problem. Great! The problem will be fixed.
But unfortunately not. After sending it in a second time, it was sent back again saying it was okay. I feel like I had a CS person that wanted me to know who was running the CS Department, and it wasn’t the Firearms Director. I gave up and bought an Apex trigger.
So no, you shouldn’t have to send your $1400 gun to a third party to make it perform right. Luckily I could do mine myself, but unfortunately for me I couldn’t get my money back. I’ll never waste my money on a “Performance Center” product again.
I’m a recently retired Toolmaker. Other than a few years as a cop; I’ve spent most of my life in manufacturing. The capabilities are far better than they were in “the old days”. The guns from back then would not be any better; I know that because I was buying them and still have some. what has changed is how Smith & Wesson responds to the problem. They don’t care.
OP
blackemmons
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 56
- Reaction score
- 23
Dave686 - I can see you are a SW fanboy by the handle.
I guess you can see where I was coming from and understand. I just thought that being in business for 164 years they still cared about their reputation. I guess times have changed. Thanks for the info.
Very sorry to hear of all your troubles. Why not look for an older one? I just got a 1968 5.5" that I have not fired yet. I have been too busy buying mags for it, but I plan to try it out soon. The seller told me to use CCI SV. Told me in tens of thousands of rounds he has never had a problem. We,ll see.
Why not go on the hunt for an A prefix serial number or a pre A serial number gun?
I understand if your answer is simply had enough
Why not go on the hunt for an A prefix serial number or a pre A serial number gun?
I understand if your answer is simply had enough
Last edited:
OP
blackemmons
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 56
- Reaction score
- 23
Pete, You are so right. I've had enough. There are too many other manufactures out there that make stuff just as good and sometimes better. I still have a bunch of SW's but not buying more. You are right, I should have purchased an older one.
Thanks
I recently purchased my 1st Mod 41. 1979 shipped IIRC. According to the seller it was his father’s and had been in a closet for 20+ years. Took it straight to the range with 5-6 types of 22LR I had on hand. Some standard velocity and some high velocity. Ate them all without a hitch. Surprising to me the most accurate were Federal Match Hunter HP and Remington Golden Bullet! Tried CCI SV and Aguila SV but neither were close in accuracy. Guess I got lucky. Almost scared to strip and clean since it runs perfect
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Messages
- 19,618
- Reaction score
- 31,120
To improve reliability with a M41, do a search here and look for my posts about the $11 Volquartsen extractor. IMHO it solves most extraction, stove-piping and jamming issues with this model. This applies to ALL M41's (vintage or new) - even if they are right out of the box!! Midway sells them for $11 bucks and installation is simple and should take no more than 15 minutes. IMHO it's the single most important and meaningful upgrade one could do to his M41! They are FAR superior to the stamped out Factory part!!!
OP
blackemmons
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 56
- Reaction score
- 23
Happy you did not have my two experiences. I'm done with the 41. Thanks.
OP
blackemmons
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2017
- Messages
- 56
- Reaction score
- 23
So why doesn't SW put a " $11 Volquartsen extractor" in the 41 if that's the cure? After 168 years in business you would think they would be as smart as Volquartsen. I'm always amazed at how aftermarket folks take the time to get it right. Thanks chief38
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2010
- Messages
- 1,082
- Reaction score
- 1,603
On the advice of those that know far more about 41's than I do, I held out and waited to find a gently used 41 from the first few years of the gun's production. What I was told was that before about serial number 75,000, the guns were essentially handmade and hand tuned. Mine has a 42xx serial number and dates to February 1958.
I've probably put 2,000 rounds or so down the pipe, and I could count on one hand how many FTF's and FTE's I've had. As it happens I've been mostly shooting CCI standard velocity ammo, which (according to this thread) was the preferred factory ammo. I knew that I should be shooting standard velocity ammo through it, though, so I guess I got lucky in terms of ammo manufacturer.
My 41 is an absolute joy to shoot, so much so that I sold my Rugers, my Colt Woodsman, and many other fine .22's that were almost as superb as my 41.
I've handled a few of the new 41's and while they look the same, they don't quite feel the same in hand. Something about the weight and the balance. I'm not sure how that translates into the actual build quality, but by the OP's accounts, the 41's now are nothing like they were back in the day.
Mike
I've probably put 2,000 rounds or so down the pipe, and I could count on one hand how many FTF's and FTE's I've had. As it happens I've been mostly shooting CCI standard velocity ammo, which (according to this thread) was the preferred factory ammo. I knew that I should be shooting standard velocity ammo through it, though, so I guess I got lucky in terms of ammo manufacturer.
My 41 is an absolute joy to shoot, so much so that I sold my Rugers, my Colt Woodsman, and many other fine .22's that were almost as superb as my 41.
I've handled a few of the new 41's and while they look the same, they don't quite feel the same in hand. Something about the weight and the balance. I'm not sure how that translates into the actual build quality, but by the OP's accounts, the 41's now are nothing like they were back in the day.
Mike
Jim Watson
Member
Sad story.
I suggest you splurge on Expensive Italian or Expensive German. A friend has a very nice Walther GSP.
My 1970s M41 does fine on CCI SV and Aquila SV. It was ok on Federal Auto Match during the shortages when Dick's seemed able to keep it in stock. I don't ask it to shoot cheap bulk, but see below.
My 1970s High Standard is at least as accurate and maybe better, and the trigger pull is great. It is absolutely dependent on good magazines and getting five for Steel Challenge was, well, a challenge. It is a CCI SV gun, period. They are known to crack frames with HV.
The Nelson Conversion on a 1911 frame is a good shooter.
I have a quantity of ammo salvaged after The Incident Including House Fire. The Aquila SV shoots reliably enough in the M41 for practice and plinking; I found some WW T22 to try. Salvaged Wolf and SK will not function the M41 or High Standard, but are fine in my 1960s Woodsman.
I suggest you splurge on Expensive Italian or Expensive German. A friend has a very nice Walther GSP.
My 1970s M41 does fine on CCI SV and Aquila SV. It was ok on Federal Auto Match during the shortages when Dick's seemed able to keep it in stock. I don't ask it to shoot cheap bulk, but see below.
My 1970s High Standard is at least as accurate and maybe better, and the trigger pull is great. It is absolutely dependent on good magazines and getting five for Steel Challenge was, well, a challenge. It is a CCI SV gun, period. They are known to crack frames with HV.
The Nelson Conversion on a 1911 frame is a good shooter.
I have a quantity of ammo salvaged after The Incident Including House Fire. The Aquila SV shoots reliably enough in the M41 for practice and plinking; I found some WW T22 to try. Salvaged Wolf and SK will not function the M41 or High Standard, but are fine in my 1960s Woodsman.
Trooper224
Member
Yes................
