Is there a smokier powder than W231?

[johnnydogs]

I took my first box of reloads that I ever made to the range yesterday. .38 spl. 158 gn swc. 3.2 gn W231, The smoke was crazy.

 

[Dahak]

Powders tend to burn dirtier on the low-end of the charge range. I haven't compared different manuals, but according to Speer, you are only running 5/6 of the minimum charge.

https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...n/38_caliber_357-358_dia/38_Special_158_L.pdf

 

[SMSgt]

HP-38/W231 are sootier at the low end of load ranges, but if you're shooting lubed lead bullets, that is most likely the source of your smoke.

 

[Benchrest1]

I've been using plated bullets with my 38 loads with 231 and the amount of smoke is way down.

 

[STCM(SW)]

Never had that problem with 231/HP-38...
Even with lubed molded bullets..

 

[robertrwalsh]

Trail boss.

 

[rockquarry]

I use 4 grs. 231 with a 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter bullet. Muzzle velocity is about 810 fps from a 4" barrel, about like a standard pressure factory .38 Special load. I've never noticed this load being more than slightly smoky, if that, and that would be from bullet lube.

Depending on the source, there is considerable discrepancy with 231/HP-38 data and a 158 gr. LSWC bullet. Hodgdon recommends a maximum of 3.7 grs. while most others sources list heavier maximum charges, even for standard pressure loads. Granted, different bullets of the same style and weight may require at least slightly different data, but Speer shows 4.3 grs. max. in book #13 for 231.

3.2 grs. 231 used by the original poster is a very light but safe charge, probably getting 650-700 fps from a 4" barrel. I certainly wouldn't go any lower.

 

[Cdog]

As others have already stated, I agree HP38/W231 ain't the likely source of your smoke.

Never had any issues with this powder and excessive smoke that wasn't lead bullet/lube related.

 

[sheppard]

When Winchester used to publish reloading manuals for their powders the .38 special 231 load for standard velocity with a 158 grain lead bullet was 4.5 grains and the +P load was 4.7 grains.

 

[growr]

shoot some FFFg black powder if you want even more smoke!!

Randy

 

[MP-5]

I have some old Bullseye that pretty Smokey

 

[gwpercle]

FFFg black powder will give you a great idea of what Gunsmoke is .
Your bullets ... lead with conventional lubrication ... this adds a lot to the smoke . If so try the same load with plated or coated bullets and see if there is an improvement .
2.7 to 3.5 grains of Bulleseye will also cut back on the smoke .
Gary

 

[cowboy4evr]

If I was looking for that light of a load , I would switch powders to either Hodgdon's " Clays " , VV 310 or even Trail Boss . No doubt , some if not most of that cloud of smoke is from the lube as well . I just don't like down loading a powder to the minimums and expecting top performance . I match my powder to what I'm wanting in performance from my load . Regards Paul

 

[johnnydogs]

Thanks everyone. I will be finishing up the SWC's and ordering some JRN and increase the charge.

 

[OKFC05]

Thanks everyone. I will be finishing up the SWC's and ordering some JRN and increase the charge.

If you do switch to JRN, put some powder in it, like 4 gr. I use 4.3gr for my plated 158gr.

 

[Nevada Ed]

For light slow loads, lead bullets or coated are best.

You need around 650 fps with a 38 jacketed 158 gr bullet, for your starting loads to be on the safe side, to prevent "Squibs".

Make sure to check your data to stay safe, since powders give off different fps with their energy's.

 

[fredj338]

Yep, Titegroup.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like said above, it's probably the lube causing the excessive smoke, not W231.

 

[tenntucker]

The ultimate smoke combo: Lead and Bullseye.

 

[stansdds]

Cast lead with hard lubricant and light loads of Unique are pretty darned smokey too. With cast lead bullets, the lubricant is usually the smoke culprit.

 

[retnavyshooter]

I have found a nice range load using W- 231. I load 3.6 gr. using a 158gr. RNFP
plated bullet.

Mick

 

[reccpd101]

I vote for light loads of unique with cast bullets. They are as smoky as a campfire with green wood.

 

[max503]

You say "smokey" like its a bad thing.

 

[BlackTalonJHP]

Thanks everyone. I will be finishing up the SWC's and ordering some JRN and increase the charge.

If you want low recoil the thing to do is keep the low charge and seat a wadcutter to reduce the case capacity or use a .38 short colt case to reduce the case capacity or like others mentioned, use a powder like Trail Boss that takes up more volume. I prefer to load .38 short colt cases with standard bullets. They are easy to load into the cylinder and you can eject them fully with the short ejection rod on 2" barrels.

 

[johnnydogs]

You say "smokey" like its a bad thing.

I was shooting my DW 8" .357 and having to wait until the smoke cleared my front sight for a 2nd shot!

 

[chief38]

Bullseye is smokier and dirtier I believe......

I use to use it for 38 specials - then went to Titegroup. I still use W231 for 45 acp.

 

[buckshotshorty]

Cast lead with hard lubricant and light loads of Unique are pretty darned smokey too. With cast lead bullets, the lubricant is usually the smoke culprit.

What he said. The smoke is mostly caused by the bullet lube.

 

[Amp]

Interesting. I didnt think of the lube.
I use bullseye and its dirty.
Going to try CFE pistol.

 

[gwpercle]

The ultimate smoke combo: Lead and Bullseye.

The ultimate accuracy combo lead wadcutter and 2.7 grains Bullseye .
I've got trophies to prove it ...
I don't mind a little Gunsmoke ... if it means I win the prize !
Gary

 

[sparkyvega]

H110. So much FUN!