Issues with brand new M&P 380 EZ

[endiun]

Hey guys,
I'm hoping some of you can provide some insight and advice on the issues I'm experiencing with this gun.

The Details: the wife bought it in May, we went to the range and as she was shooting she was grouping consistently 4-5" off from the bullseye at 5 yards. My first thought was that she was flinching, so I first shot a group with my Beretta 9mm (to make sure I was not having an off day), and after confirming that I had no problems shooting a centered group with most holes touching, I shot my wife's 380 EZ and what do you know, I shot a nice tight group but 4" to the side. Still not convinced, I got 3 on-duty RSOs (who are known good shooters) from the club to shoot the 380 EZ and the result was the same: around 4-5" left of the bullseye.

At that point I decided that it was not very likely that 5 separate shooters (and not novice shooters either) could all be flinching badly with a 380 pistol, I called S&W, explained the problem and sent the pistol back. BTW, it's also worth noting that the rear sight was already moved towards the right as it came from the factory, and the gun was shooting left in spite of that.

After 3 weeks I get the gun back with zero explanations and no repairs done to it, the only difference being that the rear sight has been moved to the center. I go back to the range and surely enough the gun shoots even more to the left, about 6" now. I also get 2 more RSOs to shoot it, and again they confirm that the gun shoots way off to the left.

I send the gun back for a second time, asking for it to be looked at by a supervisor, and when I get it back there are still no repairs, and the rear sight has now been moved back to the right, almost all the way. When I test the gun it's still 1" or so to the left, so I move the rear sight to the end of travel to the right, and with that I can shoot nice tight bullseye groups.

The problem now is that, while the gun is fine shooting slow fire bullseye drills, the sights are so far off compared to the position of the gun that doing defensive drills that involve rapid draw from holsters and point shooting is a no-go, because my wife will present the gun straight but then the sights are off. And I really don't want her to assimilate bad habits like learning to present her gun crooked. Additionally this is a carry gun, not a range toy, so as it is it's totally useless.

The LGS where we bought it, told us to call S&W again, but I'm not really sure what is the point, if I already escalated to a supervisor and the result was still no repair. If anybody has any advice or idea, it would be greatly appreciated!


TL;DR: brand new 380 EZ shoots way off center, NO it's not me flinching, several other shooters shot identical off-center groups. S&W is not fixing it. What to do?

Thanks!

 

[LVSteve]

Send it back again with a target or picture of a target with rounds fired from a bench. Explain that it is still not fixed.

As for what is wrong with it, does the front sight look to be in the proper place? Is the slide bent?

 

[endiun]

I sent it with a target both times and they clearly didn't think it waranted any replaced parts. Plus as it is now, with the rear sight moved ALL THE WAY to the right, it shoots to point of aim so they are just gonna say that it's fine. But it's no good for defensive training.

And as far as I can tell the front sight looks normal and so does the slide. My best guess is the barrel or barrel/slide fitment, but without another gun to swap parts with I can't know for sure.

 

[Gene L]

Generally, shooting left is an operator issue so they ssay....for which I suffer. I adjust my sight to the far right and whatever I'm doing wrong, I apparently do it repeatedly and hit the target where I want to. I'm sure it's me, and next time I go to the range, I'm gong to see if I'm doing something wrong that can be fixed my be with different grip, and signt picture.

 

[Fishinfool]

I agree with holding S&W's feet to the fire to make this right.

In the meantime, does the Shield use a dovetailed front sight? If so, drifting both the front and rear might make for a more "centered" appearing sight picture.

Larry

 

[Fishinfool]

Generally, shooting left is an operator issue so they ssay....for which I suffer. I adjust my sight to the far right and whatever I'm doing wrong, I apparently do it repeatedly and hit the target where I want to. I'm sure it's me, and next time I go to the range, I'm gong to see if I'm doing something wrong that can be fixed my be with different grip, and signt picture.

Gene - I have the same issue when shooting SA revolvers with the Colt sized grip frame, and thin, factory stocks. Don't have the same problem shooting DA or semi-autos. I can "adjust" my grip once the gun is in my hand, and shoot to center, but I am always off to the left with a natural feeling grip. I know its me, an it is consistent.

I found if I rest my right thumb on the recoil shield, it centers my groups. I know its not "right", but it works for me, consistently. Funny thing is, if I switch out to thicker grips, or use a SA with a Bisley or Dragoon style grip frame, it is not an issue. I have pretty much switched out to thicker grips on all my shooter Colt style SA revolvers.

Your grip, and how a gun fits you does make a difference.

Larry

 

[CB3]

Can you have the dealer from whom you bought the gun help you? Have them send the gun back and say return a fixed, fired gun with target with sights centered. New barrel/slide, new gun, whatever it takes, but don't return the same gun. Get a refund?

 

[oldiesradio1560]

I've had my 380EZ since February, 2018 when they first came out. I Love my EZ but I had an issue with it shooting left and low. I'm using a Glow man outline target measurements 10" wide and 18" long. I CORRECTED this problem by NOT aiming at the X ring but aiming one ring higher and to the right (at the lower shoulder) and my shots always carve out the X ring all the time. I had my LGS Smith install a TruGlo set of night sights. I mentioned the low and left issue and he said "I can cure windage but Not elevation." Hope this helps. Maybe we should think about how to aim our gun to get the better "on target".

 

[LVSteve]

Considering the OP stated that five different shooters all found it shot left, my money is on the gun, not the people.

As for the gun shoots point of aim with the rear sight all the way right, technically S&W are correct, but it's a very "corporate" view if you know what I mean.

 

[endiun]

Thank you guy for the answers. Let me address them in order:

@Gene L: I also used to shoot low/left when I started shooting years ago, and then I trained to get rid of that. Still, shooter error was my first thought, which is why I had 5 other good shooters shoot the gun. Everyone shot consistently left, so I feel like I can rule that out.

@Fishinfool: no, unfortunately the front sight is not dovetailed...

@CB3: the dealer said the only thing they can do is sending it to S&W just like I can do, nothing more. Most LGSs abide by the same policy of zero responsibility and let the manufacturer fix it.

@oldiesradio1560: I appreciate the suggestion, but training to use Kentucky Windage with a defensive weapon is not something I'm willing to do. If it were a range toy I would have no problem with that, but we are talking about a CCW gun.

@LVSteve: agreed. It probably is at the bleeding edge of what they consider the tolerance range since there is a way to make it shoot point of aim. The problem is that by doing so the gun becomes useless as a CCW as far as I'm concerned, which is why I'm very conflicted about what to do next.

 

[max503]

If it was mine I'd drift the rear sight over and call it a day. As long as it groups and functions I personally wouldn't be upset. After all, it is a belly gun.
I have filed and taped the side edges of front sights in order to adjust POI. My Taurus 605 wears a couple layers of aluminum tape on the left side of the front sight.
You could use epoxy on a black gun.

 

[JNewell]

If there's no better solution, I like the idea of drifting the front and rear sights part way in opposite directions.

 

[christak]

If there's no better solution, I like the idea of drifting the front and rear sights part way in opposite directions.

Can't drift the front sight on the EZ...

 

[MTC(SS)Ret]

S&W has really dropped the ball on this one in my opinion. Very poor customer service when they refuse to correct a problem the OP clearly identified, not once but twice. What would it have cost S&W to replace the slide and barrel and test the gun to make sure the sights were properly centered and POA/POI were satisfactory? 50 bucks? Even if they send the OP a new gun what does it cost them? surely less than half the MSRP.

 

[Execpro]

Ask to speak to the supervisor's supervisor. Keep going up the chain until
You get the answer and resolution you want. OR
The front sight is held on to the slide by a clip.
It's possible that the front sight was manufactured incorrectly or they have
The front sight from another pistol that is out of spec with yours.
I put night sites on my pistols (Trijicon). They make, as do others, sights for the 380ez.
That's 2 options.

For max503: I had a Taurus 85 that shot 3" to the left. The problem was a misaligned bbl. Sent it back to Taurus and they replaced
the bbl. It Took 2 months, but it now shoots poa/poi.

Be SAFE and Shoot Often!

 

[max503]

I don't think its at all unusual for a fixed sight gun to not hit POA. In fact, if you really aim, I don't see how they could hit dead center without zeroing unless you were really lucky. Here's a picture from another thread showing a gun with driftable front and rear sights. If you want more features you have to pay more. Pocket guns are pocket guns and that's what this 380 is meant to be.
Not trying to be critical but I think you are expecting too much.

 

[endiun]

I don't think its at all unusual for a fixed sight gun to not hit POA. In fact, if you really aim, I don't see how they could hit dead center without zeroing unless you were really lucky. Here's a picture from another thread showing a gun with driftable front and rear sights. If you want more features you have to pay more. Pocket guns are pocket guns and that's what this 380 is meant to be.
Not trying to be critical but I think you are expecting too much.

With all due respect, I strongly disagree. First of all, the 380EZ is not a pocket gun, maybe you are confusing it with the Bodyguard 380. The 380EZ is less than half an inch shorter than a Glock 19 and I never heard anybody say that a Glock 19 is a pocket/belly gun. I mean you would need one heck of a pocket to conceal that!

Regardless of the classification of the gun, when I buy a gun from a reputable manufacturer I expect it to shoot point of aim and function reliably. I disagree with the mentality of accepting to spend money on defective products and give the manufacturer a free pass to ignore the problem. The problem with this mentality is that it doesn't just affect people who are ok with being "beta-testers" or who simply don't care. It affects everyone because companies are in business to make money. If they see that they can cut corners with impunity, you can rest assured that they'll jump on that so that they can make more money. And there's nothing wrong with that, it's our responsibility as customers to keep them in line.

For the rest, I'll try calling the S&W CS again next week and see if I can get anywhere.

Thanks

 

[Deckard427]

My first two EZ's both had to be adjusted as far to the right as possible to hit the POA. The third one, that I will get back from Smith tomorrow is a completely different story, and has earned its own thread, which I will publish after I shoot it.