I've got a rant!! You may not like it....

[TDC]

Lots of interesting, thoughtful, diverse, and yes, some angry posts in this thread. All have validity and each certainly makes a strong case from the posters point of view.

The one question that seems to be unanswered from the unhappy posters is what you want to happen with S&W. Is it the desire to have the company close if they don't, or can't, manufacture revolvers to the standards of the past? It's understandable if we've had serious negative experiences with newer guns or S&W service we wouldn't purchase firearms from that company or production era again.

Some have stated they won't or don't buy particular era revolvers and never have.. It's awfully hard to come to a dependable conclusion that isn't hearsay from others when a person hasn't owned one. Others have implied the new guns are "junk".... I find that definition, for example, a really extreme "stretch" to define any S&W handgun.

I believe I can speak for at least a few of us by wondering why the desire to be so adamant about others of us not buying the current guns. That seems strange to those of us who haven't had the problems or negative experiences some of you have had.

I would never presume to suggest to others my handgun decisions and purchases are more informed, valid or intelligent than their own, and not expect to anger the person who has come to another first hand conclusion. Likewise, I would never wish to deny another person their free decision to choose any handgun they wish for any reason they conclude.

So what do we all want to see for S&W's revolver future that doesn't require waving some magic wand on S&W's part? I really don't expect replies to the question but I do hope those who read these well thought out posts will at least think about them -- and maybe consider all the pro and con motivation of both sides when an opinion is presented ....

Thanks to everyone who took the time to comment. Makes me, and I believe many others, proud to be a member of this board!!

 

[Dave T]

...guys like you put a price tag on em that is ridiculous in my book.

First, I don't price guns. I buy what I can afford on what's called a fixed income (retirement). Second, talking about ridiculous prices means you're talking about the current offerings from Smith that go for over $1000. The only gun I have I've paid that kind of money for is my 1914 Triple Lock and I guaran-damn-tee you it's made better than any of the new S&W revolvers. Also, it doesn't set in the safe, it goes to the range and gets shot.

Dave

 

[ladder13]

Lots of interesting, thoughtful, diverse, and yes, some angry posts in this thread. All have validity and each certainly makes a strong case from the posters point of view.

The one question that seems to be unanswered from the unhappy posters is what you want to happen with S&W. Is it the desire to have the company close if they don't, or can't, manufacture revolvers to the standards of the past? It's understandable if we've had serious negative experiences with newer guns or S&W service we wouldn't purchase firearms from that company or production era again.

Some have stated they won't or don't buy particular era revolvers and never have.. It's awfully hard to come to a dependable conclusion that isn't hearsay from others when a person hasn't owned one. Others have implied the new guns are "junk".... I find that definition, for example, a really extreme "stretch" to define any S&W handgun.

I believe I can speak for at least a few of us by wondering why the desire to be so adamant about others of us not buying the current guns. That seems strange to those of us who haven't had the problems or negative experiences some of you have had.

I would never presume to suggest to others my handgun decisions and purchases are more informed, valid or intelligent than their own, and not expect to anger the person who has come to another first hand conclusion. Likewise, I would never wish to deny another person their free decision to choose any handgun they wish for any reason they conclude.

So what do we all want to see for S&W's revolver future that doesn't require waving some magic wand on S&W's part? I really don't expect replies to the question but I do hope those who read these well thought out posts will at least think about them -- and maybe consider all the pro and con motivation of both sides when an opinion is presented ....

Thanks to everyone who took the time to comment. Makes me, and I believe many others, proud to be a member of this board!!

Terry, again another well thought out and well written post. Thanks for leaving out the hysterical theatrics that we see so often in these type threads.
People should buy what they want to buy, end of story. The constant bashing, with the same ol' tired arguments, is well-worn at best.
I don't like the IL either, but it didn't stop me from buying an awesome Smith, the 500 MAG. I'm currently looking to buy a 627PC, where else can I get an 8 shot 357 made so BEAUTIFULLY?
My 642 NO LOCK is currently being replaced because the frame cracked, with another 642. I will have zero issues putting that gun into daily use as a defensive weapon.
When a newbie comes here looking for advice with his new revolver, we shouldn't be showering him with "those things are junk" or "I don't buy anything that needs to be wound up" or "they don't make em' like they used to" or "sell the gun and get a real one" etc etc.
YMMV

 

[william iorg]

For me, it's the lock and the two piece barrels. I don't care about MIM. QUOTE]

I agree and will add the ultra-light revolvers as another show-stopper. I have a 317 Kit Gun with the blue box weighing more than the revolver. This one is hard to shoot well in the field and it is not a revolver for a young shooter to learn the basics.

 

[turbo38gn]

First, I don't price guns. I buy what I can afford on what's called a fixed income (retirement). Second, talking about ridiculous prices means you're talking about the current offerings from Smith that go for over $1000. The only gun I have I've paid that kind of money for is my 1914 Triple Lock and I guaran-damn-tee you it's made better than any of the new S&W revolvers. Also, it doesn't set in the safe, it goes to the range and gets shot.

Dave

That's kewl.. we all are limited by our pockets.. just in case you missed it, there is a phenomenon called inflation, it tends to affect the value of the dollar. I'll leave it at that. What we bought 40 years ago for 250 bucks, means we may pay about 1250.00 by todays standards

 

[SixGunHunter]

About 45 days ago I am standing at the counter of a favorite gunshop. I am .357 Magnum shopping and need a lesson in S&W revolvers.
3 revolvers lay on the glass counter. 2 new (4" & 6") 686's and a used 686 6". I spent almost 45 minutes with just those 3.

Out of the new 2 I pulled the 4" aside and then asked to see the used 686.
WOW!! What A Difference!!! After noticing how smooth the action was for a used revolver and almost half the price I asked the salesman to play with the new 4" and the used 6" and give me his expert opinion. Remember HALF the Price....He smiled and handed me the 6" and said "that is one nice used revolver" "The action is amazing".
I bought the used 686. It is a 1986 model.

Now, I will honestly admit I was hoping that I was going to like that 4". I wanted a 4" .357 Magnum. But the trigger sucked, felt hollow and sticky. The noise of the action was...well, boring. Almost fake.
Lastly, the hole. My eyes could not get past that hole. I tried and tried not to look at it but it haunted me. Stupid! A Revolver, Any revlover is the easy to make it safe around kids. Buy a plastic covered padlock and be done. No need for a hole and key.

So, If I am going to buy a New S&W, then manufacture a revolver that is what I want, Not what the board of directors want.

I will leave out the S&W buy out of Thompson Center Firearms here in New Hampshire.

 

[turbo38gn]

What a shame, IT'S A NEW GUN!!! What did you expect, we call it break in down here in Springfield.

 

[44 special Dave]

This thread while interesting, has already passed the "my opinion is superior to your opinion" threshold.

Fact: no company is the same as it was 10,20 or 60 years ago.

Hell penny candy specialty shops don't really sell "penny" candy.

I prefer to live in the present. Heck I wish some company would come out with that hand held phaser I've been waiting for.

Everytime I'm in the grocery store I wish I could "beam" myself and the goods back home.

Move on folks. Being stuck in the past gets a bit tedious. It's why cable tv is filled with shows like pawn stars, american pickers, and hoarders.

Although I do like Mike and Frank, and Danielle (tats and all).

Dave

 

[SixGunHunter]

What a shame, IT'S A NEW GUN!!! What did you expect, we call it break in down here in Springfield.

Turbo38gn,

The 686-1 I purchased was a display revolver that a older gentleman owned. It is guessed that no more than 300 rds found it's way out of that revolver. If and when the action begins to work like my 28-2 I will be very happy.
So, needless to say I know what break in is.

Thank you for serving.

 

[turbo38gn]

Turbo38gn,

The 686-1 I purchased was a display revolver that a older gentleman owned. It is guessed that no more than 300 rds found it's way out of that revolver. If and when the action begins to work like my 28-2 I will be very happy.
So, needless to say I know what break in is.

Thank you for serving.

Your welcome, it was my duty and pleasure.

I'm curious, what did you pay for that 686? I own 3 686's, both new and old. A new Lew Horton 3", a custom built 6" by a S&W employee and an old 686 4" 6 shot. I paid 725, 575 and 500 for the 3 of them, same order. I can't say as there is a lot of difference between the 3 other than the old 686 is a 6 shot and the other 2 are what is called "plus" models. In taking a quick peek at prices on GB, yep, we know and asking price and a selling price can be 2 different numbers, but none the less, a goood guide, my guess is you paid around $300 for yours.....? If so, that is gunstore robbery, were you wearing a mask?

S&W 686 357MAG 6" SS w/ Original Box and Paperwork : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

Buy and Sell Items at GunBroker.com

 

[SixGunHunter]

I paid $525.00. Kittery had a 4" 686-1 that they were asking $450.00. They sold it before I could look at it.

I know our States border one another and I have shopped around, made phone calls and 686's are just not that easy to find here in NH, so the money I paid I felt was fair. Given the condition of a revolver that was born in 86'-87' it was over the top IMHO.

I think I will not regret the 6" as it has one purpose. Hunting.

 

[turbo38gn]

I paid $525.00. Kittery had a 4" 686-1 that they were asking $450.00. They sold it before I could look at it.

I know our States border one another and I have shopped around, made phone calls and 686's are just not that easy to find here in NH, so the money I paid I felt was fair. Given the condition of a revolver that was born in 86'-87' it was over the top IMHO.

I think I will not regret the 6" as it has one purpose. Hunting.

That's a fair price for a good shape 686. You did fine. $450 is on the lower side, usually sells immediately at that price. For $100 to 150 we can buy em brandy new. Either way works for, cause I buy and love em all....!!! I'm foaming at the mouth for a new 627PC, 629PC or 3" and a new Governor..

 

[SixGunHunter]

This is fun Turbo and I think we show the best of this thread. You with your New, me with my Old and in the end we belong to the same club.

 

[M29since14]

So what do we all want to see for S&W's revolver future that doesn't require waving some magic wand on S&W's part? I really don't expect replies to the question...

I'll put my two-cents in. I suppose I am about done buying revolvers, for all practical purposes. I have more now than I will live long enough to wear out, and much worse, my past middle-age eyesight is a serious impediment to shooting with iron sights. I am pretty sure S&W knows that I have plenty of guns, and while I hope they continue to make an effort to take care of me when I need their help, I know and they know that they have to come up with products that appeal to buyers less than half my age. No amount of whining is going to change that.

I am happy to leave the direction of the company to them - they are the experts. In the past, the company (under different ownership) did make a big mistake in their dealings with certain unethical politicians. I don't know all the details of what happened and why. I just hope they avoid anything like that in the future. The other stuff is no hardship for me.

Naturally, I'd like to see any U.S. manufacturer do the best they can with quality and customer service.

 

[perrazi]

refinement and improving are all about maker cheaper. it has happened to all of the gun companies. i am glad there are pleanty of people that want the new guns. you can have my share of them. part of the problems that exist in the whole industry is that gun people no longer run the companies. they are run by marketers and bean counters. look at who is buying the gun and ammo companies now, investment groups and wall street types. you have the gun companies now concentrated in very few hands and none of them are gun people.

 

[NFrameFred]

There's no reasoning with those who think they're somehow entitled to buy what they want (that others are willing to pay present market value for) at prices from 10 to 20 years ago. (find me the guy who's happy always paying more and I'll sell him my collection)

There's no reasoning with those who don't understand why S&W 'refuses' to go back to operating and making things like they did 30 years ago, like making 'Coke' grips in house out of quality hardwoods and selling them for $29 a pop.

Having said that, we all have a right to expect that if we buy a new gun that the barrel is not cock-eyed; that we have a more than reasonable expectation that it won't lock up under recoil when we need it most; we can hope and wish that S&W might at least try to give us some indication that alternative designs might be considered to minimize the aesthetic detraction of the lock and make it reliable as possible since only the totally unrealistic imagine the lock will ever go away in this day and time. A lot of us would like to at least hope that S&W would be a bit more sympathetic and responsive to the likes and concerns of their loyal customer base who would more readily accept inevitable changes if a bit more thought and effort went into maintaining the quality and features we value as much as possible without feeling like we've been thrown under the bus and our opinions and preferences don't matter.

Only a fool would want S&W to close their doors and have that portion of our history pass into oblivion. But as someone who has been a loyal S&W customer for going on 40 years, I sometimes wonder if they (like a lot of industries today) know that a lot of the customers that kept them in business for the last 50 years feel like they're being told 'just shut up and buy what we tell you to - this is what it is these days'. Maybe there are a lot more new customers out there willing to buy what is offered and those who don't like the present direction of things are minimized enough that it won't hurt S&W's bottom line. I personally believe anyone who thinks that is short-sighted and mistaken . . .

Shrouded barrels and MIM parts are the types of things that are inevitable if the company is to remain competitive - new processes and materials and technology have to be explored and used or the folks who DO discover a way to do it WILL put them out of business. Making them the old way isn't a realistic option anymore unless you actually believe enough folks are willing to pay twice what the retail rates of the current offerings are today. Ain't gonna happen.

It's an internet discussion - everybody has an opinion. You're insulated behind your keyboard in the safety of your home or wherever you're posting, so you can be as 'forceful' and intractable as you wish. No one forces us to buy these products - it's a give and take situation and S&W and it's customers have an equal part if the company does keep going.

What do I want to see happen to S&W ? I think I've answered your question . . . .

 

[southernpride]

I have to admit Smith & Wesson pistols might not be quite what they used to be,but they still make good pistols.I get tied of people bashing S&W.When S&W was making the 19's,29's and 66's in the 60's and 70's those revolvers set the standard pretty darn high.Those would be really hard to beat.Bottom lines is S&W has always been my favorite revolver and they will continue to be that.

 

[blujax01]

Some of the complaints are valid but some are well, difficult to take seriously. In another thread I read "The barrel was canted at least 4 degrees off TDC." Please see below. 4 degrees is a little over 1% or 1/90th. I'll take that kind of precision every time.

 

[jdh]

Until you go to sight it in and find there is not enough adjustment in the rear sight to get you on paper much less in the X-Ring.

You have your compass, do the drawing and find out how much 4 degrees puts you off at 25 yards.

 

[GregG]

4 degrees would be out in left field, and is far from precision.

I have not ever seen any revolver that far off though. Maybe 2 degrees, and that can be fixed by a gunsmith or anyone that has a barrel wrench and a frame vise. I fixed it on my Super Blackhawk. Rear sight is perfectly centered now.

And no, I don't have OCD. I have CDO, which is just like OCD, except the letters are alphabetically arranged like they're supposed to be.