I've got a rant!! You may not like it....

[M29since14]

...You like them, fine. You buy them. I choose not to. I fail to see a problem with this approach.

There is none, as far as that much goes. I think what Terry finds tiresome is the constant harping about something that is of no concern to the harper. (The "If one is not interested, don't spoil the party for others!" theory.)

We ALL know, no matter what side of this issue we may tend toward, the harping we see here is just not going to change anything, for anyone. Maybe Lee should declare the forum a harping-free area, but I realize for some that is much of their entertainment here.

Bottom line - S&W is not likely to make any more 5-screw 44 Magnums, much less RMs and New Centuries. Could they? Yes, I would bet they could. Will they? No. End of that story.

 

[ladder13]

J frame sales are brisk at S&W and from what I heard on the news, the J frame is the most carried CCW gun in the USA. So, wheel guns are far from going extinct an they make up a huge part of S&W sales.

+1 The J frame has probably been the most carried CCW for decades, though I have no proof of that( preemption for those who would like to argue ).

 

[turbo38gn]

Don't forget about the new sheriff in town... The Govenator!! It's a wheelgun to end all wheelguns.. as luck would have it.. I headed up to Smith and Wesson Retail and Shooting range after work tonight... as I was loading up with my range bag, an MP15-22, a new to me used MP9c I picked up this morning, and my new 317kit gun... a jeep that was just leaving backed up and asked if I was thinking I was going shooting, why Yes! I said... he informs me the doors are locked and a letter on the door states they are closed for the day, reopening tomorrow morning at 10am.

Dang it.... well maybe I used a few other words.. so we chatted for a bit and he tells me he works in manufacturing making the shrouds for the Governors.... kewl I say, hows thaqt going, I missed buying one when they briefly had them in the retail store.. he tells me they are 3 years behind in orders... now, I hope S&W can keep their doors open long enough to fill those orders and thats just one gun!! Even if he exaggerated, I'm sure he feels good about his job. He told me he makes like 80 shrouds a shift and I believe there are 2 shifts of workers.

 

[ladder13]

Anyone heard from the guy with the "ill-fitting" grips that were on his new gun? He seems to have disappeared.


http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...set-s-w-quality-control-customer-service.html

 

[wheelgun28]

Anyone heard from the guy with the "ill-fitting" grips that were on his new gun? He seems to have disappeared.


http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-re...set-s-w-quality-control-customer-service.html

Black Helicopters get him?

 

[TAKJR]

Don't worry...be happy!

Variety is the spice of life. I too "lust" for older P & R guns (I have some) but I also have current S & W guns both with and without the lock. To the "purists" I commend you. Those P & R guns are pure "art." Even better, is a mint, early pre-29 (which I lust for). However, S & W new guns are "beefier" in some respects, and no matter what (lock or not), they are made by S & W!

We must keep gun companies in business.

We must keep our memberships in the NRA and promote future memberships.

No matter what you like, or don't like about S & W firearms, past and present, I am glad S & W is still there.

TAKJR

 

[federali]

The Times, they are a changing.

As others have said, S&W must do what it can to remain competitive in today's economic market place. Years ago, it was just S&W and Colt who pretty much had the market to themselves. I seem to recall that S&W had the larger share of the law enforcement market with regard to 4" duty guns. Then, along comes Ruger and then Tauris and Charter Arms and everyone had to settle for a smaller piece of the pie.

With the wholesale changeover to autoloaders, combined with the changing nature of crime, it is clear that autoloaders will forever dominate the handgun market. I refer you to the Newhall incident, together with an incident involving a young NYPD officer whose name escapes me for the moment, two officers executed while attempting to reload their revolvers (the Newhall case left four officers dead in one gunbattle).

I really think that wheel guns will always have collector value, even if they are not the first choice for police/self defense roles.

 

[SixGunHunter]

As others have said, S&W must do what it can to remain competitive in today's economic market place. Years ago, it was just S&W and Colt who pretty much had the market to themselves. I seem to recall that S&W had the larger share of the law enforcement market with regard to 4" duty guns. Then, along comes Ruger and then Tauris and Charter Arms and everyone had to settle for a smaller piece of the pie.

With the wholesale changeover to autoloaders, combined with the changing nature of crime, it is clear that autoloaders will forever dominate the handgun market. I refer you to the Newhall incident, together with an incident involving a young NYPD officer whose name escapes me for the moment, two officers executed while attempting to reload their revolvers (the Newhall case left four officers dead in one gunbattle).

I really think that wheel guns will always have collector value, even if they are not the first choice for police/self defense roles.

Point is well taken and I agree with you.

However, this is taken from G&W's of LE magazine...

Case 3, another CHP incident. Catching the lone patrolman off guard during a search of his vehicle, the suspect ambushes him with blows to the head and chest from a 28 once hammer. The vest prevents one blow from rupturing his heart.
Smashed in the head and severely injured, the officer triggers a volley from his sidearm at the attacker before losing consciousness.
The officer awakens moments later to see the opponent on his hands and knees and reaching for the dropped CHP handgun.
To far away and too badly hurt to physically interdict, the officer instead pulls his privately owned S&W .38 Chief Special backup from his own Bianchi ankle holster and empties it into the attacker. All 5 bullets strike home, fatally dropping the attacker and saving the severely injured patrolman's life.
(short version, but almost word for word)

I am willing to bet that more officers carry a revolver backup than we, the general public get to see....and I love it!!

 

[turbo38gn]

Point is well taken and I agree with you.

However, this is taken from G&W's of LE magazine...

Case 3, another CHP incident. Catching the lone patrolman off guard during a search of his vehicle, the suspect ambushes him with blows to the head and chest from a 28 once hammer. The vest prevents one blow from rupturing his heart.
Smashed in the head and severely injured, the officer triggers a volley from his sidearm at the attacker before losing consciousness.
The officer awakens moments later to see the opponent on his hands and knees and reaching for the dropped CHP handgun.
To far away and too badly hurt to physically interdict, the officer instead pulls his privately owned S&W .38 Chief Special backup from his own Bianchi ankle holster and empties it into the attacker. All 5 bullets strike home, fatally dropping the attacker and saving the severely injured patrolman's life.
(short version, but almost word for word)

I am willing to bet that more officers carry a revolver backup than we, the general public get to see....and I love it!!

Yep, notice the word BACK-UP GUN, not his primary. Which is fine, I look forward to finding a good ankle holster, most likely for one of my J-frame revolvers.. My BG380 goes in the back pocket..

 

[ladder13]

Don't forget about the new sheriff in town... The Govenator!! It's a wheelgun to end all wheelguns.. as luck would have it.. I headed up to Smith and Wesson Retail and Shooting range after work tonight... as I was loading up with my range bag, an MP15-22, a new to me used MP9c I picked up this morning, and my new 317kit gun... a jeep that was just leaving backed up and asked if I was thinking I was going shooting, why Yes! I said... he informs me the doors are locked and a letter on the door states they are closed for the day, reopening tomorrow morning at 10am.

Dang it.... well maybe I used a few other words.. so we chatted for a bit and he tells me he works in manufacturing making the shrouds for the Governors.... kewl I say, hows thaqt going, I missed buying one when they briefly had them in the retail store.. he tells me they are 3 years behind in orders... now, I hope S&W can keep their doors open long enough to fill those orders and thats just one gun!! Even if he exaggerated, I'm sure he feels good about his job. He told me he makes like 80 shrouds a shift and I believe there are 2 shifts of workers.

3 years backordered?? I've been waiting exactly 1 year for one of the bobtailed 2 tone commander sized 1911 E series. I "think" that I'm going to the same dealer sometime this week and see if he has a 627UDR, and if so, take that gun instead. When the 1911E's get into any sort of steady production, I'll pick up one then.
I know the dealer does have a 657UDR in stock.......hmmm

 

[SixGunHunter]

Supply and Demand.

The gun market is on fire...again.
Hurry up and wait.
I was told yesterday that Colt is behind and raising prices on their 6920 AR. Could be 6 months....
FNX 45 sold out in 1 week, backordered at one of my favorite GSs.
Not Hijacking.....OK, Who said that S&W should close their doors? Are you Insane?

 

[turbo38gn]

3 years backordered?? I've been waiting exactly 1 year for one of the bobtailed 2 tone commander sized 1911 E series. I "think" that I'm going to the same dealer sometime this week and see if he has a 627UDR, and if so, take that gun instead. When the 1911E's get into any sort of steady production, I'll pick up one then.
I know the dealer does have a 657UDR in stock.......hmmm

When he says 3 years, I'm sure they hit the stores still, just 3 years worth of work..? I see the E series in the Retail store about every 3-4 weeks they get a few. I looked at a couple in the showcase a week or 2 ago, decided a couple of days later to put one on layaway.. a girl took the last one in front of me..

 

[ladder13]

.....OK, Who said that S&W should close their doors? Are you Insane?

My last post on this topic, this has gotten past trolling.

 

[6mmman]

Semi auto handguns have been around for well over one hundred years. Revolvers much longer than that. Glad we have both. Don't count the revolvers gone yet. Each generation has to learn and decide for themselves. The biggest problems that revolvers face are the "smart guys" that write magazines and damn everthing that is not tactical and carries 100 rounds of ammo!

 

[ladder13]

The bashers certainly aren't going to like this story.

OK, had to come back with a story of stellar CS on the part of S&W.
Around the same time I was sending my 642 with cracked frame back for repair/replacement, a friend and fellow forum member was also sending back a 642. His story was much different from mine though. His brother, for reasons unknown to he, had taken a file or another instrument to the cylinder stop on his 642 and ground it down completely flush with the frame. The cylinder, as a result, fell out of the frame without any way to hold it in.
We e-mailed back and forth and the forum member decided to send it to S&W to see if somehow they could repair the gun. He was not asking for a freebie at all, and was willing to pay to have the gun restored if possible. The situation seemed hopeless, and as it turned out, it was for that particular 642.
What then happened is beyond belief. The gun was destroyed by his brother, as I said for unknown reasons, and he has not been able to determine why. It's personal, we'll leave it at that. S&W had no obligation to do anything besides say "you destroyed it, your problem". What they instead did was offer a NEW gun at law inforcement price. The destroyed gun was also a gun with the IL, and our friend politely asked Smith to send a no-lock gun, they said NO PROBLEM.
What other gun company does this? Here's the last e-mail he sent me, it's posted below. A fantastic story to say the least.
GREAT company that SMITH and WESSON.

"finally got in touch with Smith... As expected, my brothers 642 is toast. Cannot be repaired. But they offered me a brand new 642 at $314. I think that's around the LEO price and reasonable considering they have no liability in what my brother did to his gun. And, BTW, the original 642 was with the lock. I requested a no lock
and they told me no problem! Outstanding CS from the factory... "

 

[TDC]

Probably time to bring this thread to a conclusion. I believe it has demonstrated support for S&W that needed to be expressed.

An excellent example was provided above that reflects some of my own experiences with S&W Customer Service, ladder15.... and a special thanks to you, turbo38gn, who has expressed such strong support throughout this threads duration.

Ladder13's example are the kinds of responses most of us are observing first hand from the S&W customer relations department.

I don't have an issue with anyone discovering a serious problem with their new purchase. Mistakes happen, sometime stupid ones that shouldn't have with anything mechanical. That old adage "If it can break -- it will" is as prevalent with handguns as it is with autos, airplanes, boats and even lawn mowers. S&W certainly isn't immune to that.

I believe the critical issue is how a company handles their errors and mistakes. Me and many others have found S&W to be the most responsive and generous company, warranty wise, we have ever dealt with. Anybody care to offer a guess what it costs S&W to pay Fed Ex 2nd day air shipping, both ways, and then pick up the tab for the labor and materials cost to make defective products good?... I can and it's huge!

What I do have a problem with are criticisms that seem unfounded, confrontational, and down right inflammatory toward S&W.

I would ask those who seem to be serial complainers how they would like to work in any customer relations department of any company and hear some of the comments so lacking in civility we sometime see expressed here. I'd be inclined to throw the negativity right back in the persons face or not respond at all when I hear the comments a few have made.

I would also suggest to the complainers they try to choose the content of their writings and comments carefully. When they criticize the company in what we deem are unfair or unjustified ways they are questioning our ability to make wise evaluations of what matters to us. When they criticize our firearm model choices as unworthy or "junk",they are attacking our intelligence, preferences, and the ability to come to differing though valid conclusions than they have. In my mind they'll never win an award for "how to win friends" or expect to influence the thinking of many others on any future matter ... if they even care....

JMHO... and thanks everyone!