mg357
Absent Comrade
Prayers from Illinois lots of prayers.
I've recently been diagnosed with a form of leukemia
- Thread starter keithherrington
- Start date
mr-mom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Keith:
Thank you for your very interesting, and informative, post. I was diagnosed with CLL, and a couple of other blood issues, in 2006. Went thru chemo treatments in 2008 and have been in remission since. The Mayo Clinc specialists I've been working with have also suggested a strong connection to environmental issues, and past solvent use, as a possible cause. I was not aware of the lead connection. I've been shooting and reloading for the past 50 years. Will suggest they test for lead concentration on my next bi-annual checkup. I will definitely start using gloves. No excuses, as my wife is a nurse practitioner and comes home from the clinic with pockets full every night. My prayers go out for you and I wish you the very best for continued health.
Dave
SWCA #2778
Thank you for your very interesting, and informative, post. I was diagnosed with CLL, and a couple of other blood issues, in 2006. Went thru chemo treatments in 2008 and have been in remission since. The Mayo Clinc specialists I've been working with have also suggested a strong connection to environmental issues, and past solvent use, as a possible cause. I was not aware of the lead connection. I've been shooting and reloading for the past 50 years. Will suggest they test for lead concentration on my next bi-annual checkup. I will definitely start using gloves. No excuses, as my wife is a nurse practitioner and comes home from the clinic with pockets full every night. My prayers go out for you and I wish you the very best for continued health.
Dave
SWCA #2778
OP
keithherrington
Member
It's been two months since the original post...
and I have some good and some not so good news.
As you might expect, I've been diligent on the protocols discussed in the original post. I've used gloves during any handling of gun cleaning solutions, washed my hands and face carefully after each shooting session, and cleaned and shot guns only in well ventilated areas. As a result my lead numbers plunged from 19 to 7.5, just above normal. However, the white blood cell count went up from 19 to 33, 25 of those being lymphocytes. That comes out to a 25% increase over 8 weeks.
No reason to freak out. No other symptoms at all and all other blood chemistry looks real good. I go back in 4 months for a followup.
I won't bore you with any more periodic updates. I just wanted to let you all know that being careful drastically reduced the lead content in my blood, which is no small thing.
Keith
and I have some good and some not so good news.
As you might expect, I've been diligent on the protocols discussed in the original post. I've used gloves during any handling of gun cleaning solutions, washed my hands and face carefully after each shooting session, and cleaned and shot guns only in well ventilated areas. As a result my lead numbers plunged from 19 to 7.5, just above normal. However, the white blood cell count went up from 19 to 33, 25 of those being lymphocytes. That comes out to a 25% increase over 8 weeks.
No reason to freak out. No other symptoms at all and all other blood chemistry looks real good. I go back in 4 months for a followup.
I won't bore you with any more periodic updates. I just wanted to let you all know that being careful drastically reduced the lead content in my blood, which is no small thing.
Keith
Last edited:
White cell count may not be related to your condition, as any infection will trigger a higher count, as will steroids if you have been using them in any form of treatment. I'm not trying to downplay the numbers, because they are important (I know I don't have to tell you that), just saying the news may not be as bad as it sounds. And hoping I am right (I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV). 
The hospital recently freaked out about my daughter's white cell count, because of her propensity to get infections very often. Turned out to be the steroids she was taking to counter act being allergic to dialysis. Good luck!!
The hospital recently freaked out about my daughter's white cell count, because of her propensity to get infections very often. Turned out to be the steroids she was taking to counter act being allergic to dialysis. Good luck!!
Last edited:
I sincerely wish you the best of luck with your CLL.
With regard to lead exposure in indoor ranges, the major exposure route is unquestionably inhalation of particulate lead from lead styphnate priming compound and bullets. Something on the order of 90% of lead that is inhaled enters the bloodstream; the value for ingested lead (as, for example, you would get from eating after a range session without first washing up) is considerably less, perhaps 40% or so depending on which study you read. Dermal (through the skin) absorption of elemental lead is essentially zero.
I also shoot Bullseye in an indoor range with inadequate ventilation (it's a rare indoor range that has adequate ventilation - I used to shoot at the S&W range in Massachusetts; you'd think they'd have state-of-the-art facilities but the ventilation was awful). The first time I had my blood lead level tested I was at 31 mcg/dl, which earned me a nice letter from the Dept. of Public Health regarding my rights concerning worker exposure to lead, which of course didn't help much. I started using a half-face respirator with P100 filters and my lead came down to about 18 in a year, and to 7.9 a year after that, with no other changes in my shooting habits. I subsequently changed Clubs and my new range seemed to have good ventilation, so I stopped wearing my respirator and my lead went right back up to 17 in a year or so. I went back to the respirator and a year later (just last week), I was back to 8. So, it's clearly a good idea to clean up after a range session, and also to be careful about tracking lead into the house if you have some rug rats around, but if you really want to get the blood level down you need to control the inhalation exposure.
I don't know much, not sure anyone does, about the dermal absorption of lead that's dissolved in an organic solvent like most gun cleaning mixtures. Certainly some of those solvents are readily absorbed, but I don't know if that means they carry the lead in with them. If anyone has read any clinical studies on that I'd sure like to hear about it.
Unlike lead, benzene is readily absorbed through the skin and, as you indicated, has clearly been implicated with leukemia. It used to be a part of lots of organic solvent formulations and at the time nobody knew any better. I assume there are other chemicals in common use that we today don't know any better about, so I always wear nitrile gloves when cleaning guns.
With regard to lead exposure in indoor ranges, the major exposure route is unquestionably inhalation of particulate lead from lead styphnate priming compound and bullets. Something on the order of 90% of lead that is inhaled enters the bloodstream; the value for ingested lead (as, for example, you would get from eating after a range session without first washing up) is considerably less, perhaps 40% or so depending on which study you read. Dermal (through the skin) absorption of elemental lead is essentially zero.
I also shoot Bullseye in an indoor range with inadequate ventilation (it's a rare indoor range that has adequate ventilation - I used to shoot at the S&W range in Massachusetts; you'd think they'd have state-of-the-art facilities but the ventilation was awful). The first time I had my blood lead level tested I was at 31 mcg/dl, which earned me a nice letter from the Dept. of Public Health regarding my rights concerning worker exposure to lead, which of course didn't help much. I started using a half-face respirator with P100 filters and my lead came down to about 18 in a year, and to 7.9 a year after that, with no other changes in my shooting habits. I subsequently changed Clubs and my new range seemed to have good ventilation, so I stopped wearing my respirator and my lead went right back up to 17 in a year or so. I went back to the respirator and a year later (just last week), I was back to 8. So, it's clearly a good idea to clean up after a range session, and also to be careful about tracking lead into the house if you have some rug rats around, but if you really want to get the blood level down you need to control the inhalation exposure.
I don't know much, not sure anyone does, about the dermal absorption of lead that's dissolved in an organic solvent like most gun cleaning mixtures. Certainly some of those solvents are readily absorbed, but I don't know if that means they carry the lead in with them. If anyone has read any clinical studies on that I'd sure like to hear about it.
Unlike lead, benzene is readily absorbed through the skin and, as you indicated, has clearly been implicated with leukemia. It used to be a part of lots of organic solvent formulations and at the time nobody knew any better. I assume there are other chemicals in common use that we today don't know any better about, so I always wear nitrile gloves when cleaning guns.
Last edited:
However mild it may be.....
Maybe it's not as virile as some cancers, but we hope you do well. Thanks for the informative post.
Maybe it's not as virile as some cancers, but we hope you do well. Thanks for the informative post.
Keith, hope the best for you. It's amazing how we handled chemicals through our working life. My Dad had a rare bone cancer that took him possibly from chemicals he was exposed to in life. I did body work for 45 years and only wore a mask when using paints with hardners added to cure them. Inhaled a lot things I shouldn't have and will find out how it will effect me as time goes on. Washed my hands with thinner or solvents many times. Just retired and hope to enjoy many years. I'll say some prayers for your health, Larry
Elemental lead is "...rapidly absorbed through the skin..." without the assistance of solvents.
Percutaneous absorption of inorganic lead compounds. - PubMed - NCBI
Handling spent brass further promotes exposure to the lead in the priming compounds, placing the reloader at additional risk.
I would always recommend the use of nitrile gloves when using solvents, as exposure to both the solvent AND the dissolved materials is a concern.
There are plenty of studies on lead absorption in most of its forms, as well as many more on the solvents commonly used in our hobby. It stands to reason that there would be some covering both; If I come across one, the link will be posted in this thread.
Here's one that says Ivory soap (and similar) actually can INCREASE lead absorption through the skin. It would only stand to reason that solubilized lead would be absorbed even more rapidly.
"In industrial settings, skin contamination is fairly common, and the cleaning procedure may visibly remove most of the toxic agent. However,
washing may also increase skin uptake by the penetration-enhancing effect of the surfactants."
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.616.1922&rep=rep1&type=pdf
"In industrial settings, skin contamination is fairly common, and the cleaning procedure may visibly remove most of the toxic agent. However,
washing may also increase skin uptake by the penetration-enhancing effect of the surfactants."
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.616.1922&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Makes sense when you stop to think about.
Keith, I know , all too well, the cost of exposure to toxic chemicals (agent orange) as I have been through the cancer (stage IV) gristmill.
I am cancer free.
I pray you will be too.
I am cancer free.
I pray you will be too.
Ducky2002
Member
I've been a reloading for 55 years. Never really thought about dangers from lead exposure. But I sometime think about the mid 60s when we tested missile parts bare handed. If lunch time came and hands were a little oily, we scrubbed up with Tri-clor-ethylene (TCE or Trich) and went on to lunch. Now we know that's not good.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
da gimp
Member
This is the best news I've seen or heard in over 2 weeks.. Congratulations to you Rusty. I'll say a prayer of Thanksgiving now.
The study you cite was conducted using lead acetate and lead nitrate - not elemental lead. Lead compounds, many of which have indeed been shown to be absorbed through the skin, are not the same thing as elemental lead. See Section II.A of this summary from OSHA:
https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10031
Last edited:
That link doesn't seem to work for me, but I'm familiar with that study and I believe it was conducted using lead oxide (PbO), again not the same thing as elemental lead.
Inorganic lead is even more toxic, largely due to lipid solubility.
One encounters lead oxide when handling bullets. The lead is grey, not blue, as it is in the elemental state.
I think we're splitting hairs here, as while it's accurate that pure, elemental lead is more difficult to absorb through percutaneous means, that's not what we are generally exposed to in our hobby.
One encounters lead oxide when handling bullets. The lead is grey, not blue, as it is in the elemental state.
I think we're splitting hairs here, as while it's accurate that pure, elemental lead is more difficult to absorb through percutaneous means, that's not what we are generally exposed to in our hobby.
Last edited:
Similar threads
