Iver Johnon's Arms & Cycle Works ?

[00Buck2]

I recently picked up this Iver Johnson 38. I got it to go along with my S&W top break 38 S&W that is a blast to shoot. Planning on getting a few pistols out for shooting tomorrow and wanted to put a few rounds through this Iver.

Upon doing a little research I read that it can be determined if it is black powder just by the direction the owl is looking on the grips. I have no idea if that information is correct. The pistol is tight and functions flawlessly. The top rib is stamped Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works. It is 38 cal and the serial is G345xx.

Is this pistol black powder only? Is it safe to shoot the same modern 38 S&W cartridges that I shoot in my 119 year old S&W top break?

 

[duck32man]

Don't rely on the grips as they are not always correct to the gun. If memory serves me one way to tell is flat main spring is black powder and coil spring is smokeless. Iver made the switch in 1906 or 1910 (again going from memory). I have shot mine with smokeless but only a cylinder worth.

I have B. Goforth's reference book her somewhere I'll look for it.

What is the exact wording on the top of the barrel?

 

[thadheth]

duck32man's suggestion about the flat vs. coil spring is probably your best indicator. Another hint in the Blue Book of Gun Values is that the black powder variations had 2 cross pins in the lower frame; the smokeless version (Third Model) had 4.
If the patent dates on the barrel are Apr 6 '86, Feb 15 '87, and Aug 25 '96, I believe you have a Safety Automatic Hammer (Second Model), which was produced from 1896-1908. If so, it is a black powder model. I have G18xxx, but have not shot it.

 

[Cyrano]

The black powder versions had two pins in the frame and the smokeless powder versions (1909) had 4, as thadheth said. In addition, the smokeless powder versions had positive cylinder stops; the earlier ones had just the deepening grooves as shown on the photo. Shoot black or a black powder substitute in that revolver.

 

[00Buck2]

Thanks for the information!

I put 50 rounds of new production 38 S&W through this Iver over the weekend. I did not review this thread until now. It cycled fine and shot 4" groups about 9" high at 20 yards. I could even make the 24" steel target ding at 125 yards with no hold over.

I will lay off the new production 38 and search for some BP loads. I don't think it is worth buying dies and bullets to reload for. I have thousands of 38=.357 bullets but no 38=.380 caliber bullets.

 

[thadheth]

Glad it worked well for you. You've encouraged me to dig out my reloading dies and work up some fairly mild loads - 158 grain, .358 diameter lead round nosed flat points, with about 1.7 grains of Bullseye (my, that's a tiny bit of powder). I may give that Iver Johnson a try, along with a slightly later production Harrington & Richardson. S&W's are wonderful, but there are some other vintage revolvers that deserve a chance at the range.

 

[00Buck2]

Glad it worked well for you. You've encouraged me to dig out my reloading dies and work up some fairly mild loads - 158 grain, .358 diameter lead round nosed flat points, with about 1.7 grains of Bullseye (my, that's a tiny bit of powder). I may give that Iver Johnson a try, along with a slightly later production Harrington & Richardson. S&W's are wonderful, but there are some other vintage revolvers that deserve a chance at the range.

I knew they were bigger than .357 but did not know the exact diameter. Thanks

 

[Old TexMex]

Buck, If you need grips, let me know. I have 2sets, one each with the owl looking the two different direction.