IVORY Grips, beautiful but how durable

baldeagle8888

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There have been many threads and post w/ pictures showing Ivory grips and these have been used and shown on Revolvers that also can be very old.
I can understand the use on so called "Barbecue" guns, Collectors Pieces, such as engraved. My question being, how durable are they for everyday use. Not that I own any nor desire to, just curious. From pictures, I gather that they will dry out, become somewhat brittle and of course turn yellow with age and of course difficult to carve. Looking for info. to gain some knowledge.

baldeagle8888
 
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Ivory has been used on knives, guns and other prized possessions for many centuries now.

It is durable enough.

General Patton's duty weapons during WW-II wore Ivory grips.

Patton_with_revolver.jpg



image courtesy of yellowairplane
 
colt saa

Thanks for the post and yes, I was aware that General Patton carried ivory S&W's, Colt's and maybe other brands. I guess that I also should have stated shrinkage, possible warping but most of all, forgetting about being expensive, How practical for everyday carry with useage.
General Patton wearing/carrying is not in my view, an example of everyday carry and useage, not saying he didn't, or use or fire his firearms but, being a Field Grade Officer, more for show and would not have seen the wear and tear or a fair amount of firing. Of course that's just conjecture on my part, although I consider him a great and colorful General.
Here again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just was thinking more along the lines of policeman, highway patrolman, day in, day out carrying and the duties which may effect wear and tear.

Thanks again for posting
baldeagle8888
 
I have ivory on my Colt government model. Its only been about 7 years but they fit just like the day I put them on. Something I have noticed, is even though they are smooth , they are not as slippery as the stag horn grips I have on my square butt m 36 and 624. I am going to get ivory for the 36 here very soon.
 
colt saa

Thanks for the post and yes, I was aware that General Patton carried ivory S&W's, Colt's and maybe other brands. I guess that I also should have stated shrinkage, possible warping but most of all, forgetting about being expensive, How practical for everyday carry with useage.
General Patton wearing/carrying is not in my view, an example of everyday carry and useage, not saying he didn't, or use or fire his firearms but, being a Field Grade Officer, more for show and would not have seen the wear and tear or a fair amount of firing. Of course that's just conjecture on my part, although I consider him a great and colorful General.
Here again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just was thinking more along the lines of policeman, highway patrolman, day in, day out carrying and the duties which may effect wear and tear.

Thanks again for posting
baldeagle8888

baldeagle8888, a Field Grade Officer is senior in rank to a Company grade officer (Lt.'s and Capt.) but junior in rank to a General grade officer. I do believe Patton had a few stars. :~)

Stu
 
I've used ivory on my SASS guns for about 15 years. They get lots of shooting and hold up just fine. Then I throw one in a holster for hunting trips and drag it through the brush and elements with no problem. Sure they get a scratch now and then but a hundred years from now I ain't gonna care.
 
colt saa

Thanks for the post and yes, I was aware that General Patton carried ivory S&W's, Colt's and maybe other brands.

General Patton wearing/carrying is not in my view, an example of everyday carry and useage, not saying he didn't, or use or fire his firearms but, being a Field Grade Officer, more for show and would not have seen the wear and tear or a fair amount of firing. Of course that's just conjecture on my part, although I consider him a great and colorful General.

Thanks again for posting
baldeagle8888
Not being argumentative here, just saying my piece.

If George Smith Patton Jr. was a run of the mill General, I might agree that his pistols were more for show. However this is a man with a long history of wielding pistols. Just as he was legendary for riding horses and fencing.

Did you know that GSP Jr. represented the United States in the Olympics? Admittedly he only placed 5th in the Pentathlon, but that is better than I could do.

I personally know several Olympians. Each and every one continued in their chosen sport until the physical demands stopped them. It is their love of sport that got them to the Olympics in the first place.

I have money that says GSP Jr's pistols saw as much, though probably more ammunition through them as the average Private

Will Ivory scar faster than plastic, rubber, laminated or Corian grips.......sure.

But I bet it is as durable as half the woods that have been used in the last century
 
Not being argumentative here, just saying my piece.

If George Smith Patton Jr. was a run of the mill General, I might agree that his pistols were more for show. However this is a man with a long history of wielding pistols. Just as he was legendary for riding horses and fencing.

Did you know that GSP Jr. represented the United States in the Olympics? Admittedly he only placed 5th in the Pentathlon, but that is better than I could do.

I personally know several Olympians. Each and every one continued in their chosen sport until the physical demands stopped them. It is their love of sport that got them to the Olympics in the first place.

I have money that says GSP Jr's pistols saw as much, though probably more ammunition through them as the average Private

Will Ivory scar faster than plastic, rubber, laminated or Corian grips.......sure.

But I bet it is as durable as half the woods that have been used in the last century

A few years back, I had the opportunity to not only view his revolvers, but to actually hold his S&W Model .357. I can assure you, these are not "for show" revolvers. They are "working guns" in every respect. The .357 has a lot of scratches, and some bluing loss, and the ivory stocks show a bit of shrinkage, and a few nicks. The ivory stocks on the S&W were fitted with the screw holes drilled a bit lower than center. This was on his order, so he could engrave his initials into the right stock.

The same holds true for the Colt Model P. He shot and/or killed three Mexicans during General Pershing's punitive expedition into Mexico.

His fifth place finish in the 1912 Pentathlon is quite an accomplishment. He used a Colt target revolver for target shooting at a time when most other shooters used their nations' service pistols, or target-specific pistols for the competition.

His alleged "miss" was just that according to a number of witnesses, including fellow competitors. Patton used a .38 caliber, instead of .22 caliber. He put two bullets into the same hole. However, the judges scored him a zero. This occurred in the days before target backing was moved to insure this type of error didn't happen.

An interesting story, is that Patton visited Stockholm, Sweden near the end of WWII, and met with his former competitors. He actually shot a better score than all of his former competitors.
 
Next time you see a shot of John Wayne , if he's wearing the SAA Colt he carried throughout most of his film career, it will be wearing a set of ivory grips. Evidentially held up well enough for a Hollywood cowboy career lasting many years.

I have a set of ivory grips on an old model Ruger Blackhawk but since I can no longer afford to replace them I don't subject them to a lot of abuse. They have held up well under normal use and shooting. No cracks or splitting but I don't drive nails with them either.

Gary
 
Not being argumentative here, just saying my piece.

If George Smith Patton Jr. was a run of the mill General, I might agree that his pistols were more for show. However this is a man with a long history of wielding pistols. Just as he was legendary for riding horses and fencing.

Did you know that GSP Jr. represented the United States in the Olympics? Admittedly he only placed 5th in the Pentathlon, but that is better than I could do.

I personally know several Olympians. Each and every one continued in their chosen sport until the physical demands stopped them. It is their love of sport that got them to the Olympics in the first place.

I have money that says GSP Jr's pistols saw as much, though probably more ammunition through them as the average Private

Will Ivory scar faster than plastic, rubber, laminated or Corian grips.......sure.

But I bet it is as durable as half the woods that have been used in the last century

What is all the s-xxx got to do with my question and Statements.
I don't believe I said or inplied anything disrespectful about General Patton.
If anybody thinks that General Grade Officers don't carry, use and fire firearms, I would think they are incorrect. BUT, what I was asking about and which I implied, A General Grade Officer carrying Ivory Gripped Revolvers/Pistols, No matter if It's General Patton, does Not constitute the same "everyday" wear and tear that might be encountered by Police, etc. in my humble opinion. And by the way, I don't know one way or the other at what rank The General began wearing Ivory Grips so what was alluded to by his earlier history doesn't answer my BASIC QUESTION. Does Ivory stand up to the wear and tear that could be expected. Based upon some posts, it would appear that Ivory does. Question ask, answer received.


Truthfully, I thought my original post was a straight forward question from me and since I've never own any Ivory grips, I have no way of knowing the answer. The same question could be ask about Stag or any number of materials. My experience is only wood.

baldeagle8888
 
I have ivory grips on my Randall General Curtis Lemay .45 ACP. I've had and used them since the early '80s. About once a year I remove them and rub them with baby oil. This is what an old timer suggested so I do it. They show very little sign of use, a few light scratches but not bad for all the use they get. It is one of my most used and carried guns.
 
Ivory tends to crack over time. Like decades and decades. That drying out can be arrested just by a little care. The most recommended treatment is to rub them with Johnson & Johnson baby oil. Not dripping, just rubbed in on a regular basis. Gun grips are often subjected to the storage conditions the owners think are correct for the gun itself. Dry isn't good for wood or for ivory, or worst material of all, pearl. Ivory is strong and very easy to work. I love the stuff, but understand it does have some problems. The worst is legal. About 1971 I think they outlawed trade in the stuff. You can't import it or even sell or transport it across state lines. Except everyone does. It just feels good in your hand.

Its not recommended for daily use and particularly hard use. Ever seen the right side grip on an old service revolver. Cops apparently had a bad habit of rubbing up against brick walls and bashing their gun into cars door frames. Really old ivory tends to check and cross crack. Those guns weren't taken care of. Think the baby oil again.

I'd suggest the OP and anyone else interested in elephant ivory take a tour of a large gun show some time. I can't speak for the small regional ones. Here in the center of the country, we have things like Louisville, OGCA, and Indy. At those venues you'll see ivory and guns with ivory on them that look spectacular.

Its not the sun that turns the grips yellow. Its the oil in/from your hands. In the past piano keyboards had ivory keys. The owners always kept the cover up so the sun could shine on them, keeping them bleached white. Its why many of us handle the guns and then bury them deep in a safe so they don't get the sun's magic. Very minor yellowing is considered great. Much more is an indication of artificial aging. Often with tea to make even nearly new ivory look like its 100 years old.

If you meet an ivory workman like Don Collins, ask to buy a scrap or two. It allows you to file a little and see what a great material it is.

And of course I have a story. Long ago, like around the turn of the century, i was at a gun show. A vendor I know well had a Randall kit knife for sale. Yes, Randall used to sell kits so you could finish your own knife. They aren't seen very often. This one had a problem. Its fairly well finished but the original owner stuck a nice piece of what appears to be elephant ivory on it for a handle. And the day I bought it, it had a crack from stem to stern in the handle. It was an open crack and wide enough you could stick the edge of a dollar bill in the crack. There was also a little dirt in the gap. So I negotiated the price down (read cheated the guy) and took home a very nice knife. One almost never seen with ivory. And just for the fun of it, I scrubbed the handle and especially the crack with warm water and of course, Ivory Liquid. I scrubbed for a while without fear. When I finished, I could see a difference my work had caused. So I took all my junk down to the dungeon where I kept stuff in that house. It wasn't a dry basement by any stretch.

So I put the knife and sheath aside. I then asked my wife if we had any baby oil and she laughed at me. Our boys were grown and gone. So I asked her to pick some up when she went to the grocery. She promptly forgot. So did I. Long after, maybe a year, I saw the knife again and realized I hadn't treated it. So hoping for the best I picked it up. The crack had swollen itself shut. As in you had to look to even see where it had been. And I remembered the story the seller had told me. He'd had it in his gun safe and when he picked it up, he saw the crack and was heart broken. He'd ruined a very nice knife so he decided to dump it. I was the dumpee. And by luck, I'd taken the best cure. I still have the knife and I still like it. I'm a little worried now because this house has a much dryer basement. Last time I looked it was still OK.

The worst treatment for a gun with ivory is to use it to nail up fencing or wanted posters. I don't even think I'd recommend it in the intermountain west. If your relative humidity is normally under 30%, its dangerous. Worse is taking the grips on and off the gun very much. The best course of action would be sending it to me for safe keeping! :)
 
rburg,

Thanks for your post and story. At my age and as I said in my original post, I've never own or contemplate buying any. I think Ivory makes a beautiful grip, so I ask my question, but after some of the posted comments, I'm thinking I should have kept my question to myself.

Oh, by the way, thanks for not bringing up General Patton.

baldeagle8888
 
General Patton's duty weapons during WW-II wore Ivory grips.....

I agree, Patton was a stud. But he was still a General. And someone else took care of his stuff.....been there, done that.....
 
I guess that rburg is the "old timer" referred to by Zippo Guy! Thanks for the tip Dick and welcome officially to the "old timers" club!

medxam
 
General Patton's duty weapons during WW-II wore Ivory grips.....

I agree, Patton was a stud. But he was still a General. And someone else took care of his stuff.....been there, done that.....

I have to agree with your comments and that was what I was implying in my replys.
I hope this doesn't start another series of General Patton comment posts and I even question myself for posting it, but what the H-xx. I seem to recall that the 357 Reg. Mag. was introduced sometime around the mid 30's and General Patton died from injuries received from a vehicle accident in 1945 or early 46. By my count, that is "roughly" 10 years of ownership of at least the S&W Revolver and as WaMike as alluded to, being a GENERAL GRADE OFFICER with assigned aide/aides to help with his duties. I also recall an earlier post about the current condition of the S&W which implies some maybe rough useage and/or handling.

baldeagle8888
 
What is all the s-xxx got to do with my question and Statements.
I don't believe I said or inplied anything disrespectful about General Patton.
If anybody thinks that General Grade Officers don't carry, use and fire firearms, I would think they are incorrect. BUT, what I was asking about and which I implied, A General Grade Officer carrying Ivory Gripped Revolvers/Pistols, No matter if It's General Patton, does Not constitute the same "everyday" wear and tear that might be encountered by Police, etc. in my humble opinion. And by the way, I don't know one way or the other at what rank The General began wearing Ivory Grips so what was alluded to by his earlier history doesn't answer my BASIC QUESTION. Does Ivory stand up to the wear and tear that could be expected. Based upon some posts, it would appear that Ivory does. Question ask, answer received.


Truthfully, I thought my original post was a straight forward question from me and since I've never own any Ivory grips, I have no way of knowing the answer. The same question could be ask about Stag or any number of materials. My experience is only wood.

baldeagle8888

The ivory grips on his Colt where there from day one, when he was a LT. in Mexico, about 1916, and used them in combat. He appears to have the same gun and grips in WWII. The ivory grips appear to have held up well.
 
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Ivory is about as durable as a good hardwood. Over the years it may shrink some as others have said. It tends to be a bit harder than some wood. It's characteristics differ some.

Elmer Keith was among those who enjoyed ivory stocks as did many, many shooters "back in the day". Often it was engraved or embossed as it can be quite slippery plain in some hands. It was a common material for gun stocks of all types. It was readily available back in the early years of the last century. A bit more expensive than wood but not out of reach for everyday folk. Mostly it is now quite high in price and rare.

Patton also favored ivory stocks on some of his guns. He also wore jodhpurs and a gold plated football helmet that he preferred over the standard issue GI one. (see below) He avoided GI footwear in favor of high leather boots that required a subordinate to pull on and off for him. So on the whole what he cared for in terms of personal gear I'm not much interested in.

... leather & gold buttons & Gold football helmet . Patton loved his flash

tipoc
 
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