Ivory or Not?

[22lrfan]

I spotted this 6" 4-screw model 10 no dash at a pawn shop that I check at least once a week. C489222 serial no. I don't have a 6" so it got my attention. I'm curious about the grips. I'm not sure what real ivory looks like and the shop owner has no idea what they are. What do y'all think? If real ivory do they add value to it?

 

[CH4]

Looks like ivory, but I don't see the shreger lines. You can always do the red hot needle on the back and see if it smells like burnt hair.

 

[22lrfan]

I knew about that test but haven't tried it yet. He said he assumed they were plastic so I was trying to see if ivory would add much if any value before testing them. I was worried that if he finds out they're ivory he would jack the price up.

 

[Modified]

Old ivory for sure. Neat set too. Kind of shrunken though, that really can affect the value.

The other issue is that as neat as the cracking is, it does mean its a pretty weakened set. They would be unlikely to survive much, if any, shooting of the gun.

 

[22lrfan]

Thanks for the info. I was concerned about all the cracks. He has it priced at $529. I've bought quite a few there so he usually gives me a decent discount.

 

[lihpster]

I'd buy it. Someone would love to have those grips on a display revolver, I'm sure. Then it's 529 minus what you sell the grips for. There are laws pertaining to selling ivory, so check up on them first.

 

[jeffrefrig]

$500 for a no-dash model 10 in that condition would already be in my possession. Plastic, bone, ivory or whatever the handles are of are inconsequential in today's prices. Seeing how he's in the pawn business I would think he should know ivory from bone from plastic. Yeah, grab the gun if you can. I would find a way if I didn't have the funds. Wife doesn't need to know that I'm investing for extra funds for her on top of insurance and everything else!

 

[Truckman]

They appear to be ivory, and if so, a bath in mineral oil may help...If I had been there, I would not have left the counter until that gun was mine regardless of the grips......Ben

 

[StrawHat]

Yes, they appear to be ivory. Apparently uncared for but still ivory, maybe. If you like the 6" revolver, buy it. Don't test the grips until you get home. If they test as ivory, find a web site that deals with preserving old ivory for suggestions on how to do it properly.

Unless the cracks are so bad the grip is compromised, I would not worry about shooting with them in place. 38 S&W Special is not known for recoil.

Kevin

 

[RKmesa]

I would agree - ivory... probably a walrus ivory.

 

[Hawg Rider]

Those are some nice ivory stocks...neglected, but still nice. I would have snatched up that revolver for the price- but then again I'm a sucker for taking home orphaned revolvers and giving them some TLC. Although I haven't been fortunate enough run into some nice ivory stocks, and can hardly be called an expert, from other projects I've completed successfully I do think that a mineral oil bath would really help to restore those stocks. I had a similar situation with this 1949 5-screw M&P .38 Spl. and its MOP stocks. My son manages several local gun stores, and he tends to call me whenever a vintage revolver shows up. I couldn't pass this one up a few years ago for $350. The MOP stocks cleaned up nicely, but like those ivory stocks, I wouldn't shoot the M&P with those stocks installed. Too fragile and too risky!

 

[Summersteel]

I wonder if the gun/grips were given/made for an employee of Westinghouse, due to the circle W mark on the grips.

 

[SS336]

I like everything about that revolver.
Sure looks like some kind of ivory, price seems good. Did you buy it yet?

 

[2152hq]

I wonder if the gun/grips were given/made for an employee of Westinghouse, due to the circle W mark on the grips.

With that 'Westinghouse' logo on the grip(s),,I'd be thinking it might be a form of Micarta.

Westinghouse invented the stuff about 100yrs ago and it's gone thru a lot of different stages of development and uses for the company.

As for it being real Ivory,, w/o the crossed lines (Schreger?) in it,,those are only found in Elephant and Mammoth AFAIK,,I'd think they could be Walrus perhaps as RKmesa stated.
The evenly spaced layer crack lines that show on the butt of the panel plus the even finer cracks betw those as well would be something that Walrus ivory may show you.

Very evenly spaced layer lines is what Micarta is as well.


Any real ivory will reflect an Ultra Violet light
The object will appear bright Blue/White .

Fake Ivory/non ivory object will absorb the light and appear a very dull blue color.

There are small, pocket size UV lite source/flashlite size sold in places like Lowes and such. But I don't know if that's the correct 'UV Light' needed.
Not a scientist..You need 'Long Wave UV Lite'

I don't think many sellers would object to a light test for ivory.
The glowing red-hot hat pin test...maybe not,


Nice revolver and grips.
Always liked the plain old M&P

 

[steelslaver]

Hippo ivory can look like that the the straight tusk get pretty big

 

[scoutingranch]

If that's real ivory or tusk of any kind...bad juju. Wouldn't want that anywhere around me.

 

[steelslaver]

If that's real ivory or tusk of any kind...bad juju. Wouldn't want that anywhere around me.

Why hippo ivory is legal in every state as is mammoth ivory. I have bought lot of hippo and Mammoth ivory. I still get sent offers for lots of mammoth. Old walrus ivory is also legal.

There are some pretty sever restrictions on elephant ivory, but owning that piece would be 100% legal due to its age. Selling those across state lines would be legal if they weigh less than 7 ounces and I am sure that ivory was imported prior to January 18, 1990 were crafted prior to 2016

From the US Fish and Wildlife Service

What Can I Do With My Ivory?

The de minimis exemption applies only to items made from African elephant ivory. The African elephant 4(d) rule provides an exemption from prohibitions on selling or offering for sale in interstate and foreign commerce for certain manufactured or handcrafted items that contain a small (de minimis) amount of African elephant ivory. To view examples of items that may meet de minimis criteria, click here.



To qualify for the de minimis exception, manufactured or handcrafted items must meet either (i) or (ii) and all of the criteria (iii) – (vii):

(i) If the item is located within the United States, the ivory was imported into the United States prior to January 18, 1990, or was imported into the United States under a Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) pre-Convention certificate with no limitation on its commercial use;

(ii) If the item is located outside the United States, the ivory was removed from the wild prior to February 26, 1976;

(iii) The ivory is a fixed or integral component or components of a larger manufactured or handcrafted item and is not in its current form the primary source of the value of the item, that is, the ivory does not account for more than 50 % of the value of the item;

(iv) The ivory is not raw;

(v) The manufactured or handcrafted item is not made wholly or primarily of ivory, that is, the ivory component or components do not account for more than 50 % of the item by volume;

(vi) The total weight of the ivory component or components is less than 200 grams; and

(vii) The item was manufactured or handcrafted before July 6, 2016.

Asian elephant ivory rules are not the same as African elephant

They can id type and age of ivory

 

[2152hq]

You can't assume when the (suspect) ivory was imported, taken as a sport trophy, or otherwise obtained and from where.
You have to be able to prove when it was with a Import certificate or original sales certificate for the item. That's used to obtain Exemption under Antique.

Who has the original import and or sales certificates lying around from pre 1899 in the case of an Antique exemption request.

De Minimis Exemption is also possible. The meaning is 'very small amt' of ivory that is part of a larger item. The ivory not detachable in normal circumstances and is crafted as part of the larger object.

But again, you have to apply and be granted the exemptions, The Certificate of Exemption is your hall pass to have the stuff.

An ivory inlay on a musical instrument for example will often get a
'de minimus exemption'. With that certificate, your violin or guitar with a couple ivory inlays in it won't get confiscated going thru customs because of the ivory.
The certificate is recognized (supposedly) by all countrys of the world who signed on to the CITIES regs.

Mammoth Ivory is generally exempt. BUT some States have regs against possession, sale, trade, ect.
(I Love) NYS is one of course. Some of the other progressive States as well.
NYS's reasoning for controlling the 5million yr old ivory was that some unscrupulous persons could/may have/can pass off illegal Elephant ivory as Mammoth ivory and therefore keep the market for the poachers of Jumbo alive and well.

The Obama & State admin really tightened up on the ivory sales and possession.
Gunshows were visited locally by the State DEC and ivory pistol grips, knives with ivory handles, whale teeth scrimshaw, etc were confiscated.
I saw it myself at the Syracuse Gun Show.
Word got around quickly and all ivory quickly disappeared from the tables.
I noticed the same 'no ivory on display' at out of state shows as well.
It all seemed to quiet down and people loosened their fears about it during the Trump years.
I believe that most all of the regs are still in place though and Elephant Ivory is the main target of the laws.

It's beautiful stuff,,but the animals are beautiful as well.

 

[merl67]

That is a neat enough Smith at around $500 I wouldn't hesitate much about it as some have suggested they could be Ivory, or not there is still enough with the "W" engraved grips to make an interesting search into the history. As to the whole legal Ivory debate proving to me these aren't legal would be harder than proving they are illegal. I have exactly one revolver wearing Ivory, and very likely elephant ivory at that. Do I feel any guilt owning them ? No I do not I enjoy them for what they are. Times were different then. Would I shoot an elephant now? Of course not. Should I destroy the grips I have ? No what good would that serve. I hope the OP is able to get the revolver in question, and get back to us...

 

[steelslaver]

You only have to provide documentation to sell from state to state

From the same US FISH and WILDLIFE SERVICE web site

s it legal for me to keep my elephant ivory?


Yes. Federal wildlife laws and regulations such as CITES, the ESA, and the AfECA do not prohibit possessing or display of ivory, provided it was lawfully acquired. There is no certification requirement or process to register ivory items and you do not need a permit from the Service to possess or display ivory for noncommercial purposes. We recommend that you maintain any records or documentation you have that demonstrates the origin and chain of ownership of the item. We recommend that you provide all documentation to any future recipient of your elephant ivory item. Check to make sure that you are also in compliance with local and state laws. Contact the state to check on their requirements.