IWO JIMA
- Thread starter Rudi
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HOUSTON RICK
Member
The controversy continues as to who was in the picture as there was an earlier flag raising with different folks and the witnesses understandably lost track of who was there at which time. it did not help that many of these men were dead within days. God bless and keep them all!
Ira Hayes. A Pima Indian that Johnny Cash sang a song about. If he was in the first photo or the second, I can’t recall.
Puller
Member
It doesn't matter, that island was full of American heroes that day.
Hi Rudy, happy belated birthday! It’s also my birthday and I just turned 81. My late father-in-law was there as the skipper of LCI659 lobbing mortar rounds at the enemy. He has been gone 30 years now and I miss him.
Admiral Nimitz didn't like the first flag put up. Too small for everyone to see.
He ordered a flag from a battle ship be put up so no one could doubt that
Mt Surabachi had been taken.
He ordered a flag from a battle ship be put up so no one could doubt that
Mt Surabachi had been taken.
dsf
Member
My high school teacher was closely related to Rene Gagnon, one of the Marines said to have done the flag raising. My uncle knew him a bit also. The high point of senior History class was when Mr. Gagnon came to his (nephew?) class and recounted events of the day. I was fortunate enough to sit in on two classes.
It's been close to 50 years so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but from what I recall Mr. Gagnon never spoke to the raising itself, not directly anyway. Which was OK with us - just to have someone who was there was really something else. I doubt there was ever a more attentive, well behaved class conducted.
The question comes up as to how these Marines spent the next year or so going around the country as having raised the flag. I guess all I can come up with is "Marines follow orders" and they were told it was for the greater good. I suspect the higher ups, both military and civilian, did not want "just an Indian" to represent such an identifiable and inspirational event to the rest of the country. They had ID'd Bradley and Gagnon as the others living and that's what they went with.
In addition to problems they may have had before the war and those caused by the war, I have to wonder if what they knew about the raising, their role in it (or not) and after took a toll.
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Alk8944
US Veteran
There was a program about this on the Smithsonian Channel just a few weeks ago. Who the Marines who were involved in the first flag raising is a matter of great significance to the Corps! The bottom line of the story was that the original flag raisers have finally been correctly identified. Only two of the men survived the war, Ira Hayes and another whose name I do not recall.
For the record I am not a Jarhead! U.S. Army Vietnam era 1964 to 1967. I enlisted just a few days after the Gulf Of Tonkin incident, Regular Army!
For the record I am not a Jarhead! U.S. Army Vietnam era 1964 to 1967. I enlisted just a few days after the Gulf Of Tonkin incident, Regular Army!
Alk8944
US Veteran
There was a program about this on the Smithsonian Channel just a few weeks ago. Who the Marines who were involved in the first flag raising is a matter of great significance to the Corps! The bottom line of the story was that the original flag raisers have finally been correctly identified. Only two of the men survived the war, Ira Hayes and another whose name I do not recall. Several of the original 6 Marines who raised the first flag on Mt. Suribachi were killed on Iwo before the battle ended.
For the record I am not a Jarhead! U.S. Army Vietnam era 1964 to 1967. I enlisted just a few days after the Gulf Of Tonkin incident, Regular Army!
For the record I am not a Jarhead! U.S. Army Vietnam era 1964 to 1967. I enlisted just a few days after the Gulf Of Tonkin incident, Regular Army!
dsf
Member
I don't know if Nimitz was involved, I think it was more involved and local.
Secretary of the Navy Forrestal (as civilians tend to do) went ashore after the action was fading and tried to claim ownership of the 1st flag raised. The on scene commander (in pretty colorful language) suggested otherwise and that it would stay with the Marines. A 2nd flag was had, with instructions that it was larger than the 1st.
A combination of not so glorious reasons and names lost to history probably played quite a role in this event.
I read a book about this awhile back titled "Flags of Our Fathers" written by James Bradley and published in 2000. I think it was made into the movie mentioned a few times in the thread. The book was quite good. One of those I couldn't put down. Read it cover to cover over a weekend.
That was one tough fight and there are so many unknown hero's and acts of bravery that will never be known except to those who were there. I believe this is true of all wars. Freedom isn't free. Thanks to all who served on our behalf.
That was one tough fight and there are so many unknown hero's and acts of bravery that will never be known except to those who were there. I believe this is true of all wars. Freedom isn't free. Thanks to all who served on our behalf.
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fiasconva
US Veteran
llowry61, he wrote another book called "Flyboys" that is just as good or better, IMHO, than "Flags of Our Fathers". If you haven't read it yet give it a try. It's about 600 pages long but another one you can't put down.
As a West Virginian (I am not a vet, but most of my family was), I am very proud of two Iwo Jima Marine vets whom I met. Hershel "Woody" Williams, Medal of Honor winner, who sadly died recently, and my boss's father, Jack Burlingame, 3rd Division, who sadly died much earlier, in 2010.
Puller
Member
Yeah, Admiral Nimitz wasn't there. As the theater commander he maybe was at the advanced HQ on Guam, or more likely at Pearl Harbor. Either way, he was thousands of miles away.
The order to replace the first flag with a larger second flag that was captured in the famous photograph was given by Colonel Chandler Johnson of the U.S. Marine Corps.
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Back when in high school met the gentleman that had the local hardware store. Guess it was when I bought my first pistol a Walther PPKs. We got to talking about history and I told him I was a “ student” of WWII history. He said he was a Marine tanker on Iwo. Over the years I knew his sons and talked to the father quite often. He would not talk to me about his experiences, Nuf Sed.
RM Vivas
US Veteran
I (and a lot of other Boots) learned about Iwo Jima on Parris Island and one of the things that stayed with me was the last Japanese holdout on Iwo didn't surface until 1950!
One of my buddy's uncle, Rudolf Julian, was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor, posthumously, for his actions on Iwo Jima. There is a large monument dedicated to him in front of the Town Hall in Sturbridge, Massachusetts. His mother paid to have him brought back here. He is buried in New Jersey.
UncleEd
Member
Sadly, unknown but by a few.
And with the newest generation,
9/11 also nearly unknown.
A pessimistic view, I know.
And with the newest generation,
9/11 also nearly unknown.
A pessimistic view, I know.
During WWII, 87 Marines were awarded the MOH. Of those 87, 29 were for actions on Iwo Jima……..that said much…….
