J-Frame Mystique - My Experience

[Univibe]

Mystique won't save your life when the Jackboyz loom.

I have a really nice Colt Detective Special. A standard pressure 158 grain LSWC will work just fine on a gangsta, popular opinion notwithstanding. Why do I not carry my Detective Special?

Six shots and no reload, that's why. Instead, when I can't carry the full size pistol, I choose the P365. It's smaller and flatter than a revolver, carries 10+1 and 15 more in the reload.

 

[pharmer]

Not all j-frames are manstoppers. A couple boxes of .22lr and you cn have a fun afternoon. Joe

 

[elm_creek_smith]

I've had J-Frames over the years, and stupidly got rid of most of them. My last one was a Model 642-2 that I carried in a cargo pocket holster as a backup to my duty revolvers (S&W Model 65-1 or Model 686-6). It's not mine any more because I've given it to my 21 year old granddaughter, a corporal in the USMC because she has tiny hands.

My current EDC is a S&W Model 12-2 in an OWB holster because it's easier for me to handle a K-Frame round butt these days.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

 

[les_garten]

Mystique won't save your life when the Jackboyz loom.

I have a really nice Colt Detective Special. A standard pressure 158 grain LSWC will work just fine on a gangsta, popular opinion notwithstanding. Why do I not carry my Detective Special?

Six shots and no reload, that's why. Instead, when I can't carry the full size pistol, I choose the P365. It's smaller and flatter than a revolver, carries 10+1 and 15 more in the reload.

Ok, I'll play.

Most gunfights come down to 1 or 2 shots. I carry a 342PD.

If I am going down to a particularly seedy area, and I mean real seedy. Like waiting for my wife around the airport in FT Lauderdale? I carry a G26 with a 19 clip, oooopppps, I said clip. Or a G-17.

But really, unless you are a gangsta, 5 rounds will settle 99.9999% of all disputes the average unlucky person will ever encounter. I suggest to the folks that claim 5 rounds is not enough, that I carry mine a whole lot more than they carry theirs. Why, cause mine ain't no deal to carry. I live where it's hot as hell on new years. I don't remember the decade I last wore long pants! So shorts carry everyday? 342PD FTW

 

[les_garten]

I agree. I carry my 342 in a Mika in places I couldn't carry anything else. It does a lot of "around the house" duty also because of the weight and comfort.

Mika here as well, is there anything else?

 

[Yaworski]

Check out the speed "strips" from zetasix.com. If/when I get another J frame, I will have one of these speed loaders. They are like a speed strip but hold the rounds in a circle of 5 rather than in a straight line. And no release knob on top. Reduces bulk.

I had not seen those. I'm going to get a set.

 

[haywood]

J-Frames are my Favorite. The 442 is my always pocket gun. I rotate waistband Guns but, often it is a second 442

 

[RubEric]

My J Frames

I carried the Model 37 in SE Asia for several years.

 

[JH1951]

Here's a little J-frame .38 Spl. nostalgia.....
Our fathers liked these.....

[/IMG]

 

[transit]

Which just identifies it as a .38 Special Bodyguard. So it could either be a M38 or M49. In the video, there doesn't appear to be much of a recoil impulse. If it had been a M38, I think the visible recoil would have been more pronounced. Also Loan is seen reholstering it, which also (IMO) points more toward a heavier steel revolver than the M38, which could be pocket carried more easily.

I'd love to find out, and I'm going to keep looking a bit.

Here's my take so far:

I don't know if we can tell anything from recoil.

If he's loaded with M41 ammo, and he probably is based on the supply chain, he's firing a 130 grain bullet at less than 750 FPS. General Loan was slight by American standards, but he was no *****.

As for the holster, he was a General officer, and a handgun (-especially if it actually was a gift from the CIA station chief, as speculated) is a badge of office, a symbol.

He wouldn't likely want it carried concealed.

So I don't think that gives us much on its face either.

 

[Cal44]

Here is another J frame that has some mystique.

A 442 no dash finished in satin Nickel.

They made these for a few years after the first 442's came out.

Looks a bit like a 642. But with more class.

 

[transit]

And another J frame pic, just to stay on topic!

One with some "mystique"...

Edited to add: That's a genuine Model 60 NY-1.

 

[transit]

Same gun, different angle.

Big, sexy photo shoot day!

 

[SAFireman]

Not exacty a J frame, but....

A dang nice carry gun.....early Baby Chief.....with some Sambar stag to help it feel at home at any TX BBQ

 

[RoyS]

Very nice with this sambar grips, lovely..!

Cheerio,

Roy

 

[Bumpus13]

Nothing quite as pretty as an ugly 49 Bodyguard, I have two and love them both, I admit the look is an acquired taste. A big plus, both IMHO are far smoother in DA than my 442, which has just always seemed to have a very heavy trigger pull, maybe it's just mine.

Yep. The M49 is definitely on my list. Eventually I'll come across one at the right price, and it'll be pounce time.

 

[GerSan69]

I'd love to find out, and I'm going to keep looking a bit.

Here's my take so far:

I don't know if we can tell anything from recoil.

If he's loaded with M41 ammo, and he probably is based on the supply chain, he's firing a 130 grain bullet at less than 750 FPS. General Loan was slight by American standards, but he was no *****.

As for the holster, he was a General officer, and a handgun (-especially if it actually was a gift from the CIA station chief, as speculated) is a badge of office, a symbol.

He wouldn't likely want it carried concealed.

So I don't think that gives us much on its face either.

You guys must be young.
General Nguyễn Ngọc Loan's gun was a Model 38. (So was Bernie Goetz's... remember him? And Clyde Tolson had a Model 38.... another blast from the past!)

 

[Mister X]

One perspective is that the snub is likely adequate, but why settle for the acceptable minimum when you can choose to be better prepared.

While you possibly could need more than 5 rounds, be forced to engage in a ranged gunfight or have to reload, the odds are extremely low. You can choose a weapon you deem makes you better prepared for those unlikely events..."better to have it and not need it", but I don't see it being that simple.

A quality snub revolver offers certain advantages over autoloaders, which include generally being quicker to get into action(especially from a pocket), as reliable as a firearm can be(in particular from odd shooting positions or having a bad grip on the gun), excellent inherent weapon retention and functionality if having to fight in a contact scenario and it is extremely safe. Training can mitigate a lot of these concerns about semi-automatics a great deal, but not all IMO and the same could be said about revolvers. If it's truly a software problem rather than a hardware one, why doesn't that apply equally to revolvers?

Just like the nature/nurture debate, I think it's both hardware/software rather than either or. Are the odds of needing more than the capacity a snub offers or having to reload more likely than having to access my weapon and make shots at contact range or fight off a gun grab? Based on everything I've read, the latter seems much more likely and I choose accordingly. You can train with an autoloader in contact scenarios, but you will never match your potential efficiency you could get with a revolver just as no matter how good you get with a revolver, the autoloader will always be superior in certain circumstances. It's a trade-off and you have to decide what pros/cons balance will benefit you the most in the most likely circumstances.

For me, the snub revolver makes the most sense for carry. That's just my perspective, others see it differently and choose based on what they believe is right for them. Ultimately, it's all opinion in a seemingly never ending debate.

 

[transit]

You guys must be young.
General Nguyễn Ngọc Loan's gun was a Model 38. (So was Bernie Goetz's... remember him? And Clyde Tolson had a Model 38.... another blast from the past!)

I am too young to have witnessed Saigon in 1968. I tend to agree on the General. But, can you prove it?

Bernie I remember well. I was here. His gun is interesting as well. Not sure where it is just now.

And that event also addresses the, heretofore hypothetical, discussion regarding multiple attackers at close range. Quite well, in fact.


This lot, I do know.

But alas, they are the Charters to which I earlier referred, not our Smiths.

 

[GerSan69]

Prove it? I remembered, but I did a simple Google search to get the photo (and verify my answer.) You might do the same.

 

[GerSan69]

By the way, this is the best photo I could get of Gen. Loan's holster, which isn't all that great.

 

[tlawler]

Prove it? I remembered, but I did a simple Google search to get the photo (and verify my answer.) You might do the same.

How does the photo verify your answer?

 

[CALREB]

I use Safariland 1st gen speedloaders. No rattle , rounds line up. They are a bit harder to reload, pressing the little knob and turning it. But they release great and never work loose in my pocket.

 

[ohioan55]

Ok, I'll bite. We have a few snubbies here in the house. My wife really likes them and shot them exclusively (until she got her 627-8 Pro center). Not all are Smiths, but most have been modified (at Clarks) for moon clips. In fact the moon clip craze started with the 627-8. My wife loves them and can burn up a case in short order. After, shooting the 627, I sent my (sorry) Ruger SP101 cylinder to Clarks for milling. Well, I liked it so much That I sent more cylinders to Clarks for milling (about one one every other month). I even did my Model 29 (which I hunt with). I even did my wife's carry gun (Wyatt Deep Cover) 637-2. I did not do my older Smiths, so rest assured I didn't damage any history, but I did do the ones I consider to be our working guns. As a side note, I've found that not all.38/.357 fit in moon clips well. Don't have this issue with .44s or .45 auto, so we have refined which brand/cases we like in the moon clips. Ok, I'll move on now.

 

[tlawler]

Ok, I'll bite. We have a few snubbies here in the house. My wife really likes them and shot them exclusively (until she got her 627-8 Pro center). Not all are Smiths, but most have been modified (at Clarks) for moon clips. In fact the moon clip craze started with the 627-8. My wife loves them and can burn up a case in short order. After, shooting the 627, I sent my (sorry) Ruger SP101 cylinder to Clarks for milling. Well, I liked it so much That I sent more cylinders to Clarks for milling (about one one every other month). I even did my Model 29 (which I hunt with). I even did my wife's carry gun (Wyatt Deep Cover) 637-2. I did not do my older Smiths, so rest assured I didn't damage any history, but I did do the ones I consider to be our working guns. As a side note, I've found that not all.38/.357 fit in moon clips well. Don't have this issue with .44s or .45 auto, so we have refined which brand/cases we like in the moon clips. Ok, I'll move on now.

TK Customs has a nice chart of which moonclips work with which revolvers and ammo. Different cases need different moonclips.

 

[ohioan55]

Thanks, I missed that chart somehow as I've bought clips from them. I may have to go to them to do anymore cylinders as the guy at Clarks that does such a fine job has been threatening to retire (and may have already) and they indicated that would be the end of the cylinder work. But, the bottom line is that you must fuss with getting the right cases with the correct moon clips to have them work right. If they go in a little tight, then the clip warps a little making insertion difficult. Too loose, and again you must fuss a little for a smooth insertion.

 

[ohioan55]

Safety aspect

Ok, since safety of a wheel gun vs. was brought up, I'll share an example. Recently, while at a show, a vendor broke the golden rule (at our shows at least) and had his concealed carry loaded and holstered. Realizing his mistake, he went to unload his auto loader (striker type). The gun went off, blew his thumb off and the slug went into the leg of the guy standing next to him. My wife was standing at the next table and saw the fellows thumb fly through the air into the crowd (I was in the next row). Wife was unnerved and no one else was hurt. The leg wound was serious, but the guy survived the incident. Bottom line (IMHO), different guns require different levels of training/experience. You can get away with mistakes on a wheel gun that you can not with a striker type weapon. I recommend a snubbie almost every time to someone looking for a carry gun. As said here, simplicity, reliability, and safety (as most people don't put in enough time throwing lead down range).

 

[southchatham]

Is there some trick to doing it in a hurry? I've dealt with moonclips for years with my 610, and it is quite fast. But the clips are larger and thicker, so easier to handle and don't flex like an aluminum pop top. When I got my 640 Pro, I thought cool!...moonclips! But in reality for me (and it may be just a manual dexterity issue), it's pretty tough to get them to just drop right in like my 610. The clips flex, so it's hard to get all of the bullet noses to line up at the same time and there's a lot less clearance between the cylinder and frame. I use TK Custom clips and have tried some different thicknesses, but for me it's still an exercise in futility and I know I'd really flub it under stress. I do carry with a moonclip in it because it makes for a much more positive extraction, but I still carry speed strips for reloads.

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

No one said you need to load 5.
For speed in an urgent moment just load 2.

 

[E46iosh]

I love glocks too was first semi auto I bought when I got rid of my Taurus 357 mag four inch barrel and I like gen 3 g27 can eat anything my 43x didn't like the Jessie James ammo but it loves everything else. I always shot better with a revolver I learned to shoot owning one so when I saw psa had glock days I went even though I already have four pistols and there it was a classic used service revolver and I had to have it for the price and I'm glad I did my dad has a revolver 38 snubnose and loves it . You can get speed loaders for revolvers you can load from
One just as fast as putting a mag in.

 

[Yaworski]

Sgt. Joe Friday carried a S & W .38 Special Snubby!
That's all I need to know. Old School! Git her done!

Sgt. Friday carried a 2" Model 10. Gannon carried a Model 15.