J-Frame: Primary Carry?

I have a paddle holster for my 642-1 that I like to carry just behind my right hip. In that location it's perfectly comfortable - even riding in my truck or car - but the problem is that it's visible in the summer when I'm not wearing a jacket - or when I take my jacket off. I have a CCP but many people (even here in northern Maine) are uncomfortable seeing the holstered pistol. I've tried the Galco pocket holster, but it isn't very comfortable for me and I have one hell of a hard time learning to put my car keys in my left pocket! I actually modified my first pocket holster so that it clips onto the side of my truck's center console.

I generally pocket carry my Model 638-1 in my front (right) pant's pocket, and my back-up Model 38-0 in a paddle holster on my left side at around the 8 o'clock position. Here in my part of Texas, it gets/stays hot and humid almost the year round. My cover garment in warmer weather is an Under Armor type T-shirt covered by a Hawaiian type shirt, or even better, the modern equivalent - the fishing shirt. It seems to work well, and is just slightly more (1 additional layer) than just the undershirt itself. (BTW, I usually leave the cover shirt unbuttoned.) Pocket real estate is an important consideration. I have my keys on a carabiner that is attached to a short piece of webbing. I clip the carabiner to a belt loop and stuff the dangling keys at the end of the webbing strap into the top of a pocket (usually a hip pocket), which leaves enough room for a cell phone or a loaded speed strip (in a nylon wallet type carrier). Luckily, at my age, I'm no slave to fashion.

Regards,

Dave
 
Guys based on the replies from some of my recent threads on self defense I decided to make this thread to ask about carrying a J-frame as a PRIMARY CCW weapon:

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It seems common wisdom relegates the humble snub nose as a "backup gun" or "pocket pistol", suitable as a last ditch option when the primary handgun goes down or runs out of ammo, but is there anybody out there who actually carries ONLY a J-frame .38 special or .357 magnum as their primary concealed and carry firearm? If so, why did you choose it?

Just trying to get some feedback from members here. Thanks!

-Jay

My PREFERRED primary carry is a 1911 LtWt Cdr in .45ACP, riding OWB. But the world seems to care little for my preferences, so many days a 638 is my primary.

Why?
1. It is little and light and can fit in a pocket.
2. It can be dumped quickly into my truck console if I need to go into a non-permissive area.
3. Because I slapped a crimson trace laser grip on it and that makes it good-to-go for low-light conditions.
4. I can hit man sized targets out to 25 yards with it and head-sized targets with more effort.
5. .38spl+P or otherwise with heavier pills are better penetrators than .32ACP.
6. I can stuff it with hard cast wadcutters and it makes a lightweight woods gun where brown bears are not present.
 
A good friend of mine, a former USAF Desert Storm Combat Veteran, and long time carry permit holder eschewed all his various Glocks for a 642, because it fit so nicely in a cargo shorts pocket.
When my wife and I got around to getting our licenses. I got her a 642 and stuck a pink Hogue grip on it.. It has no Obama Lock which is a plus. My wife, a breast cancer survivor was thrilled. I've had her shooting Remington FMJ -because I hate to clean lead - and 110 grain +p hollow points, which she finds quite controllable.
I have a early 70s vintage Model 60 with a pinned barrel,, but I decided to go for the 642 Pro Series. The 5 shot is quite popular and Sportsman's Guide can't keep them in stock.. I rather like the hammerless Centennial design and it hides quite nicely in a big pocket and avoids the problem of the hammer snagging. This is a plus in South Florida where jackets are impractical most of the year and generates more notice that I care to exhibit. Additionally, I wanted to try full moon clips.
I read a few reviews of the 642 pro on this site where the side plate was not stamped Pro Series. Mine has the correct side plate and the ejector is nicely jeweled or engine turned.
A number of my wife's friends have seen our Smiths and are seriously considering them now a a viable option.

Glad to hear you and your wife settled on the 642. However, as much as I like to blame Obama for things. The S&W Internal Lock is a Clinton deal worked out long before we even knew who Obama was.
 
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Have carried the 442/642 for years. The object of a back-up is to get you out of trouble not start a gun fight so the 5 shot is perfect. Easy CCW and combined with the correct ankle holster it will become your favorite.
 
After my earlier comment today about the visibility of my 642 in a paddle holster, I went ahead and purchased a G2 Urban Carry holster. I hope that this will accomplish my desired goal of hiding the 642 in plain sight.
 
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After my earlier comment today about the visibility of my 642 in a paddle holster, I went ahead and purchased a G2 Urban Carry holster. I hope that this will accomplish my desired goal of hiding the 642 in plain sight.

I'm just going to leave these here...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUvpH1u3c-0[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyFwa4gSam8[/ame]
 
I am quite sure that a lot more guys, that may not admit it, carry a
snub J Frame as their primary (only) every day carry piece. I admit
that I do.

On the other hand, I noted in the most recent American Rifleman,
that the most favored handgun for women is the S&W M&P 380 Shield.

Here's my 642-1 in a little Chic Gaylord speed scabbard.
 

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I carry a no-lock 60-10 3" stainless in an OWB everywhere I go, covered with my shirt tail. I'm big enough that the added weight of S/S doesn't bother me, nor does the size, target sights, or hammer. I added a 3-finger S&W grip for my big hands.
And I think a defensive-load 357 is a good friend when you need help getting away from a bad situation, should the need arise.
 
The "J" Frame is great for concealability. I carry it to the right of the swell of my back (5 o'clock) or place it in my front right pocket. I carry my 638 w/ hollow points all the time. If I want more power I run with my S&W 360 M&P, both with (2) speed loaders. I find I am more accurate with a revolver up to 25 yards hitting a 8" paper plate with ease. Like they say it only takes 1 good shot to do the job. I'm not in to taking chances throwing lots of lead & chance hitting a good guy with a missed shot or ricochet. I use 38+P hollow points to assure I do not over-penetrate. As for 3 gun issues, I have a Stainless Rossi 92 Saddle ring, My S&W 681 3" lugged (just had S&W install a 686 barrel) on my side. If someone gets these 2 from me I can surprise them with my 360 M&P. All take 357's or 38's.

Best 38 load to carry, a wad cutter loaded backwards! YIKES

I'm not knocking semi's, I carry my Shield 9 or 45 with 2 extra clips if I feel I need that much fire power but my "J" is primary. God Bless Smith & Wesson!
 
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I have two friends who pocket carry a snubbie everywhere...

They don't fit is my pants pockets at all so a Kahr P380 covers that when it has to be done...

If I'm carrying IBW or OWB it is just as easy for me to carry the Commander I've been carry for going on 40 years than a snubbie...double the rounds at almost twice the velocity.

I've just seen the snubbie/.38 Special fail too many times to rely on it.

This guy doesn't recommend snubbies either...and he has been there and done that... This scenario was an ODO but it could just as easily been ones daughter... And he made four good hits out of 5 rounds fired...

Shots Fired: Palm Desert, California 03•30•1996 - Patrol - POLICE Magazine

Prefer to learn by the mistakes/experience of others...it is generally cheaper than leaning it yourself....

Bob

People should read that over & over. Yep, 5-6 might be enough, until its not. Same shooter, 8-15 shots, i think a totally diff outcome. The officers shooting was exemplary but he just needed more rds.
 
I found the Palm Desert article interesting; namely due to both participants taking multiple hits (either 9mm or .38spl) and neither participant stopping the fight even after taking all those hits...It would be great to know what type of bullet shape Hendrix was using (i.e., rn, hp, wc, semi-wc).

thanks,
tx

As often noted, most handguns suck as fight stoppers. Why it may take more than 5-6 against just a singke attacker. Now toss in 2-3 attackers, no such thing as too much ammo. A Shield, g26 p365, all easily carried iwb under a T. A p365 can even do pocket carry, but never been a fan of a gun in my pants pocket, just too slow.
 
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I found the Palm Desert article interesting; namely due to both participants taking multiple hits (either 9mm or .38spl) and neither participant stopping the fight even after taking all those hits...It would be great to know what type of bullet shape Hendrix was using (i.e., rn, hp, wc, semi-wc).

thanks,
tx

Being mid-1990s my bet would be either the 158 +P LSC-HP or the Federal Nyclad... Most LEOs I know carried the 158 HPs...

I'm positive the BG was shooting FMJs from the 9mm as all the holes in Hentrix had a entrance and an exit... That said I've read where the 147 HPs of the time would do the same...

Bob
 
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Wear business professional clothing and have found pocket carry or AC Undercover concealed carry crew with an Airlite 351c seven shot and Hornady Critical Defense 22 Magnum low flash ammo has been the most comfortable and versatile set up.

salox-albums-forum-sale-items-picture20033-dc958138-1c45-4617-9e21-403ed9242bfa.jpeg
 
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I carry my 442 Performance Center almost exclusively as a CCW. Basically, if I am not in a shower or in bed it is on me...and even then it's an arms reach away. It's so light I barely notice it's there...really being no more difficult to carry than a wallet and keys.
I "carried" many different, larger autopistols for about a decade before just giving up. I have a whole trunk FULL of holsters. It took me a long time to realize that holsters cannot make a handgun lighter or smaller. They are not magic and cannot defy the laws of physics. When stretch marks (like pregnant women get) were beginning to develop...that's when I decided a change needed to be made.
Several epiphanies where had. The first was that most handguns are meant for LEO/Military outside the waistband carry. These folks often employ all sorts of suspenders, stiff belts, and other stuff to distribute the load. A S&W 1076 was never meant to go inside your waistband.
The second epiphany was that my wife's 638 fit in my pocket. Then I realize pocket carry IS IDEAL. It is fast, comfortable, and it is discrete. I bought myself a 442 and never looked back. 5 38s and a speed strip or speed loader beats 10 rounds of 10mm in the safe.
Also, since my favorite cartridge of all time for basically everything is 357 Magnum, 38 snub nose is a no brainier. I can crank out the practice ammo all day.
 
I have two friends who pocket carry a snubbie everywhere...

They don't fit is my pants pockets at all so a Kahr P380 covers that when it has to be done...

If I'm carrying IBW or OWB it is just as easy for me to carry the Commander I've been carry for going on 40 years than a snubbie...double the rounds at almost twice the velocity.

I've just seen the snubbie/.38 Special fail too many times to rely on it.

This guy doesn't recommend snubbies either...and he has been there and done that... This scenario was an ODO but it could just as easily been ones daughter... And he made four good hits out of 5 rounds fired...

Shots Fired: Palm Desert, California 03•30•1996 - Patrol - POLICE Magazine

Prefer to learn by the mistakes/experience of others...it is generally cheaper than leaning it yourself....

Bob

It's been said before the goal of carrying a handgun for an LEO is different than for a private citizen - the former may have to confront trouble and the latter would preferably wants to avoid or break contact with it. For an LEO in any urban area currently (23 years since the linked story) having only a .38 snubby off body sounds unwise, even at the home improvement store. For a present-day CCW holder...maybe. Choose wisely and train.
 
As often noted, most handguns suck as fight stoppers. Why it may take more than 5-6 against just a singke attacker. Now toss in 2-3, nomsuch thing as too much ammo. A Shield, g26 p365, all easily carried iwb under a T. A p365 can even do pocket carry, but never been a fan of a gun in my pants pocket, just too slow.

This is one of those decisions where if the answer is still going to be a handgun, it's still going to be a compromise, because it's still going to be a handgun.

Yes, there have been situations where cops needed more rounds than 5 or 6. On the other hand, there have been plenty of situations where cops have stopped armed suspects with less than 5 or 6 rounds, and even stopped 2 or 3 when only using a revolver. Decisively, too.

If someone wants to make the effort to constantly carry a larger gun than a snub .38/.357 or one of the newer diminutive .380's, that's absolutely their choice to make.

Yep, the difference between being able to fire 5 or 6 rounds before having to reload, versus being able to fire 7-10 rounds before reloading, might become critical. Or it might not.

Being able to utilize the best tactics available at the moment might be pretty damned critical, too. (Like using a post, column or veh as cover.)

Being able to get the best anatomical hits against the threat you're facing is obviously desirable, too.

Knowing when to start making that first shot, or shots, might make all the difference, too.

I think it was Mas who once did some timed drills where he compared drawing from a pocket holster, when his hand had already accessed the grip. It was fast. If I remember right, it even offered him a slight advantage to a belt holstered gun ... because he could already surreptitiously have his hand on the gun butt without it being noticeable to bystanders, compared to trying to do it with a belt gun.

In the world of compromise that is using a handgun as a personal defensive weapons or off-duty/retirement weapon, there are lots of choices that can be made, and lots of reasons why they might be advantages or disadvantages for different folks, under different conditions.

There have been times when someone asked me why my groups during some drill have been located a bit high on the target, thinking I was missing hitting the COM. I explained to them about the aortic arch being at the top of the heart, and being the high pressure side of the pump. And that the upper T-spine is pretty much behind it (but only if the threat is directly facing you.) Threat targets with various types of anatomical markings may give a different perspective about where "hits" go.
 
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If you're carrying a high capacity auto because you're concerned with having to shoot it out with multiple ARMED attackers, why aren't you concerned with multiple UNARMED attackers or perhaps armed with contact weapons? It seems that would be a much more common occurrence than being forced to egage in some kind of running street gun battle with multiple shooters. I hear about groups like Antifa, BLM and mobs of inner city kids swarm and assault individuals in public fairly regularly, but not shootouts involving civilians vs gangs. If you have to deploy your weapon while in close physical contact, a disarm attempt seems highly likely as does an auto malfunctioning . Even against one individual at contact range, a hammerless snub revolver is simply going to be much more reliable and reasonable than any auto.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=23c7ovuSd2U[/ame]
 
If you're carrying a high capacity auto because you're concerned with having to shoot it out with multiple ARMED attackers, why aren't you concerned with multiple UNARMED attackers or perhaps armed with contact weapons? It seems that would be a much more common occurrence than being forced to egage in some kind of running street gun battle with multiple shooters. I hear about groups like Antifa, BLM and mobs of inner city kids swarm and assault individuals in public fairly regularly, but not shootouts involving civilians vs gangs. If you have to deploy your weapon while in close physical contact, a disarm attempt seems highly likely as does an auto malfunctioning . Even against one individual at contact range, a hammerless snub revolver is simply going to be much more reliable and reasonable than any auto.

YouTube
Multiple armed attackers are just that. It really doesnt matter what they are armed with. Though armed with guns, they are more likely to press an attack vs knives or clubs, well unless they are just bat chit crazy.
 
I have two friends who pocket carry a snubbie everywhere...

They don't fit is my pants pockets at all so a Kahr P380 covers that when it has to be done...

If I'm carrying IBW or OWB it is just as easy for me to carry the Commander I've been carry for going on 40 years than a snubbie...double the rounds at almost twice the velocity.

I've just seen the snubbie/.38 Special fail too many times to rely on it.

This guy doesn't recommend snubbies either...and he has been there and done that... This scenario was an ODO but it could just as easily been ones daughter... And he made four good hits out of 5 rounds fired...

Shots Fired: Palm Desert, California 03•30•1996 - Patrol - POLICE Magazine

Prefer to learn by the mistakes/experience of others...it is generally cheaper than leaning it yourself....

Bob

Well, he was a police officer, doing what police officers are trained to do.
It was not a self defense situation. He was intervening in a hostage situation, something that the vast majority of non-LEOs would not intervene in.

It also begs the question of what department approved round he was using.
Then, you have the fact that he was shot 13 times with a 9mm and he's still here.
If anything, it makes me question my choice of 9mm as a frequent carry piece.
But, that also begs the question of what ammo the perp was using.

I have carried a J frame .38 as my primary EDC many times.
Would I rather have my 4566? Absolutely. Or even my .44 Bulldog.
Sometimes, circumstances dictate which gun we can carry.
And, the statistics show that the average non-LEO self defense shooting involves fewer than 3 rounds being fired by the defender.

I'd rather carry a 12 gauge pump than any handgun, but men have run away from being shot with 00 buckshot, too.
Then again, if they're running away after being shot with 00 buck, at least they're not still attacking you.

Now, I just need an ankle holster for a Mossberg 590. :D
 
I'm just going to leave these here...

YouTube

YouTube

I think a CZ82 carried in the original issue holster would be a much better choice, if you're going for the "not a holster" look.
It holds a CZ82 and a spare mag and it doesn't look like a holster.
However, I like to carry a bit more concealed than that. I don't like for anything to be showing outside of my clothes, except for maybe my belt.
 
I've got a 337PD that works well in the summer with cargo shorts......and I often carry my 60-10 (micro 686) in an IWB kydex holster when working around the cabin...... both get carried with a Safariland Comp I speed loader... the 60-10 with a split five pouch.
 
My M49 has been my EDC and on-duty backup since the mid 80's. Sometimes I carry the 640-1, but not a lot. Both are excellent weapons and I feel confident with either.

I do not recall where I heard it but the saying went something like this, "We talk .45's, we shoot 9's, and we carry .38's". I'm ok with that.
 

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My M49 has been my EDC and on-duty backup since the mid 80's. Sometimes I carry the 640-1, but not a lot. Both are excellent weapons and I feel confident with either.

I do not recall where I heard it but the saying went something like this, "We talk .45's, we shoot 9's, and we carry .38's". I'm ok with that.

I think it was Ken Hackathorn who said that.
 
My normal uniform duty gun is a 627 Pro Series with two spare speed loaders and two spare full moon clips. On days when I expect to be in uniform instructing a class or be stuck at my desk, I have a duty belt set up for my 3 inch 60-10 along with 4 Speed loaders and 12 rounds in loops. If I am going to be doing something plain clothes, I usually carry my 640 Pro with 5 extra full moon clips. I qualify with all of these. The agency is not purchasing any more 357 ammo so when we run out of what is in stock (and we have a bunch in stock) I may have to switch to 45 ACP in a 625, a Thunder Ranch 325 and a 325 Night Guard for uniform, light duty uniform and plain clothes. That won't be too bad even though the 325s are not as small or light as the 60-10 or the 640 especially when you count the weight of the 45 ammo. The last officer involved shooting I was in was February 2011 so it may be irrelevant what I carry. But you never know. The most rounds I have ever fired in an OIS was 8 rounds on two different occasions 28 years apart. Most of the others were just one round and at very close range. The J frame you have with you is much more effective than the (44, 45, 9MM etc.) locked up at home. The 640 in your hand in your coat pocket may have quite a tactical advantage over the thug holding a crowbar who is trying to rob you.
 
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I have a number of firearms and love the idea of carrying my Glock 21, flash light, knife pepper spray etc., but have to admit I don't see the need for them in my lifestyle. I'm not going to wear extra garments, oversize pants, or be uncomfortable when a 38 snub nose or 380 acp carries so easy in my pocket. If I lived in another location or lived a different lifestyle I might feel differently.
 
I have a number of firearms and love the idea of carrying my Glock 21, flash light, knife pepper spray etc., but have to admit I don't see the need for them in my lifestyle. I'm not going to wear extra garments, oversize pants, or be uncomfortable when a 38 snub nose or 380 acp carries so easy in my pocket. If I lived in another location or lived a different lifestyle I might feel differently.

I can certainly understand. After having worn my uniform or plainclothes gear for 10-16hrs, the last thing I wanted to do on my own time was "gear up" to relax while going about my off-duty activities.

If my activities involved me going to the same places and situations as when I was working, it would be different. As it is, smaller choices of guns suit my needs.

I still like to pocket a powerful light and at least 1-2 knives, though, as both are very handy throughout most ordinary days. I just have to organize them around also carrying a pocket holstered .38 snub or LCP .380 most days (when I don't decide to belt on one of my smallish 9's, .40's or .45's, anyway).
 
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