J frame shoots low

[wrangler5]

{ snip } Underwood coats some of their bullets with something called Hi-Tek that they describe as a polymer-based compound. I don't have any experience with it, but it is supposed to reduce lead fouling and the smoke caused by the wax lube that would otherwise be required with lead bullets. When I go to the range, people sometimes look at me like I'm shooting black powder The reason that Underwood uses Hi-Tek on the +p load but not on the standard version is because it's soft lead; while you shouldn't experience too much leading with the low-powered version, push a soft lead bullet hard enough and you will get severe leading. The +p load probably wouldn't cause severe leading, but surely more than the standard load. I mostly shoot hardcast SWCs and don't worry about leading.

FWIW, I've been shooting Hi-Tek coated lead bullets for more than a year now and have never had a trace of leading with them. (Not Underwoods, but lots of companies offer Hi-Tek coated bullets, some of them in a choice of colors - which I thought was a bit over the top until I thought about loading plinkers with green bullets and full magnums with red, or . . . ) Last week I shot some 158g coated round nose bullets through a Marlin 357 Magnum carbine at speeds ranging from 1300 to 1650fps, again without a trace of leading.

 

[SeamasterSig]

Those that use the SWCHP bullets, which is the best company?
Underwood or Buffalo Bore or some other?

Both make excellent ammo, but for my purposes I prefer BB. They offer a traditional bullet with brass and provide detailed information on each load in realistic barrel lengths. However, BB is expensive and they can get away with that pricing because they are essentially an industry benchmark. Since I reload, I don't buy much of it; it's strictly carry ammo for me. If you're lucky, you can find it locally. Otherwise you have to order 12 boxes to get free shipping.

Underwood's ammo is more reasonably priced and they often offer free shipping with orders over $100. In my experience, Underwood is well-made and performs very consistently. When I first found out about Underwood, their catalog was very similar to Buffalo Bore's. But they have differentiated themselves with non-standard offerings such as the Xtreme Defender bullet, Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass instead of plain vanilla brass cases and Hi-Tek coated lead bullets. The test barrel lengths are not stated on their website, but they'll tell you if you ask and when I have it has always turned out to be fairly realistic barrel lengths.

Have you shot any of the Underwood or BB in the meantime?

 

[scooter123]

IT's all about the Sight Regulation. Your J Frame has the sights regulated for 158 grain bullets and YES it can make that much of a difference.

I have two Ruger LC9S Pro's for use as carry pistols and both are regulated for 147 grain 9mm loads, with 115 grain range ammo they both shoot 4 inches low at 10 yards with a "centered" sight picture. Shoot them with 147 grain hand or Defensive loads and the sights are dead on perfect. BTW both my Primary and Spare are currently 100% Flawless in terms of function and I have at least 2000-3000 rounds though both pistols.

I also have a 2 1/2 inch model 19 and with my normal 125 grain hand loads I have to crank the rear sight high enough that it looks like a ski jump to get it to hit at POA with a "centered" sight picture. BTW, I talk about "centered" sight pictures because many many years ago I learned to use a bit of Kentucky Elevation to compensate for different weight bullets. What I've found is that if you picture an equilateral triangle between the top of the front sight and the top outer points of the rear sight you'll have a sight picture that hits quite close using a 125 grain in a 158 grain regulation or a 115 grain in a 147 grain regulation.

 

[haywood]

When shooting my J-Frames I sight them in with 130 grain FMJ. I make note of where the front sight is in the rear. I then paint the sight white. After drying I paint the back half of bottom red. The line between the two coolers helps me keep the same sight position when practicing. When I point the gun I see red and white sight aim until I see mostly white in the rear sight and shoot. Works for me on the Range . I get decent groups out to 50’

 

[BE Mike]

I am new to J frame revolvers (last 6 or so years). I got a 38 Special Mod 360J that shoots 3” low at 7 yards off a rest with 130/135gr +P and non +P with 4 different ammo brands ( shooting single action).
I had a 642 and a Taurus M85 that where poa-poi. They could shoot X rings all day at 7 yards.
I have used the combat sight picture on all the pistols and revolvers I have ever owned over 50+ years.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

If you ever need it for the purpose you bought it for, will you shoot it off a rest or unsupported? Will you shoot it single action or double action? I don't know what a "combat sight picture" is, could you elaborate? Most low shots are shooter induced because of anticipating recoil. The shooter pushes forward as the handgun is fired. At just 7 yards, even if it is sighted in to shoot low, the error should not be very noticeable. Since the revolver you have (made for the Japanese police) is significantly lighter in weight than the other small revolvers you own(ed), and you are using +P ammo, I submit that the low shots are because of "the loose nut behind the trigger".

 

[Execpro]

If you read Post #33 and #37 that should answer your guestion on how I shoot(BE Mike). P.S. I was considered expert with Revolver,Pistol,Shotgun and Rifle before I retired!

As for Underwood ammo 158gr SWCHP, I posted what Underwood e-mailed me about bbl length and ammo specs in Post #37.

A combat sight picture is when the top of your front sight is even with the top of your rear sight and what you want to hit sits on the top of the front sight when the above sight pic is accomplished.

Being new to S&W light J frames, I was not aware that they where that sensitive to bullet weights that would impact POI. I resolved the sight pic with the lighter +p ammo. I resolved the small thin grip issue with a new Colt Cobra.

Thanks for the input on the Underwood vs Buffalo Bore ammo! The Underwood ammo might be my next carry ammo.

S&W Forum has the most informative info on the Web.


Be SAFE and Shoot often!

 

[SeamasterSig]

I resolved the small thin grip issue with a new Colt Cobra.

My dad has one of those and really likes it. I shot it once when we were at the range together. If I remember right, it's not as readily concealable (pocketable) as a J-frame, but it neatly bridges the large gap in size between J- and K-frames. Enjoy!

 

[ABPOS]

I fondled one a few months ago and I about died after pulling the trigger. It was light and smooth. Probably one of the best DA pulls I've felt.

I'm totally interested in them, but I'm skeptical as to how long they will last. I have not heard a lot of interest in them and it seems like they're not pumping them out overly fast that people are getting many. Meaning I don't hear of people owning the and shooting them much at all.

I have an older detective special and LOVE the weight and size. But mine has always given me problems with function and I've never sent it off anywhere to fix the timing. And it has been a really frustrating experience. I don't shoot it well and I'm not completely certain it's out of time. I think it is though. And the newest thing is it sticks sometimes. If it worked right, I would not long for another type of defensive gun. Although I think a J frame is better for pocket carry. But the DS fits in the same holsters and I actually prefer the extra bit of weight for recoil management. I also prefer Colt's take down lever. It's not in the way and it's really hard to accidentally push it. AND you get the extra round.

But like I say... none of those upsides mean anything since it doesn't really function properly. And finding people to work on it is not all that easy, and it's costly.

I don't mean to derail the thread, or talk about stuff that isn't forum worthy, but I'm curious as to how you like the new Cobra.

 

[Execpro]

A good gunsmith should be able to look at the gun and tell you what is wrong and the cost to fix it. That rev. is worth more than the new Colt Cobra if in 90% or better condition. If it were mine I would definatly have it looked at.
I will have to wait until Winchester and Speer Gold Dots are available on line for sale before I can shoot the Colt. Just have enough for 6 rounds in gun and 2 speed loaders at this point.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!

 

[Narragansett]

Well i have been shooting handguns for a lot of years, and always resisted a 2" J frame. IMO I could care less about 3" low at 23 feet. I would practice with a gun like that to put 5 rounds in 6" rapid fire at 23 feet. That is all it is designed for

 

[Execpro]

Well i have been shooting handguns for a lot of years, and always resisted a 2" J frame. IMO I could care less about 3" low at 23 feet. I would practice with a gun like that to put 5 rounds in 6" rapid fire at 23 feet. That is all it is designed for

Have owned 48 handguns and shot a good number of others since 1967 (down to 3 now). ALL shot POA-POI. (Some required sight adjustment).
I have no problem putting 5 shots in the 10 ring rapid fire at 7 yards on a silhouette target adjusting for bullet drop with this 360J.

My thread started with having not owned but one J frame before this one (4 years ago and It shot poa-poi) I never had a handgun that didn’t.
I was looking for input as to why this particular gun shot low and received ample responses. Mainly that this particular (360J) gun with 158gr loads would shoot poa-poi.

I appreciate your comment and agree that your standard of 6” at 23’ is a valid point. All my revolvers have or had hammers (except the 642) in case a longer shot is required(For accuracy).I pray I never have to use it,but if I can use the sights (under stress) I would like the bullet to go where aimed.
In all the years of State and Federal requalifications as well as hunting dangerous game and competition shooting.I can’t imagine having any gun that won’t shoot poa-poi.
I went to a 2” bbl for concealed carry (AIWB/cross draw). Before that it was always OWB carry or on very rare occasions a full sized Pistol was stuck down in the front without a holster but they ALL had decockers.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!