J Frame trigger upgrade?

T

tws3boys

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
57
Reaction score
60
I have had my 642-1 for around 20 years now. It has spent most of that time as a safe queen. Very little use, probably under 500 rounds fired.
Not a real easy gun to learn. I know as a fact. At least for me.
I've pulled it out of the safe, spent a good bit of time with it at the range and have decided to make it my pocket carry. I've gotten pretty good with it but still trying to get better.
I see where some say they have done a trigger upgrade to help improve accuracy. And, several sites that offer springs and kits to reduce trigger weight from 10lbs down to 71/2 lps +-. Aplex Tactical upgrade kit, rebound spring, main spring and firing pin for$30.
I also see where some say it does not help at all. That the factory springs are optimal for the gun.
So, just wondering. Has anyone done a upgrade on a j frame? Is it worth the effort?
 
The Apex kit will help smooth out your trigger. I've used them on several J's and they are dependable and work as advertised. I've also used the Wolff and they work fine but I think the Apex are just a bit smoother.
 
I have a 1962 vintage Sock Drawer Special model 36. As purchased it was quite evident that it had never been fired and the only defect was some tiny rust spots due to all those years spent under a pile of socks. Trigger pulll can only be estimated as I don't have a trigger gauge that goes to 20 lbs. but it was very heavy, probably in the range of 15 lbs. It also featured razor sharp serrations that left me bleeding after 3 cylinders fired.

Got home after that outing and got on the Brownell's web site where I ordered a Wolff Mainspring and a12 lbs. rebound spring. After installation the trigger pull checked in at 9 lbs. 4 ounces per my Lyman Digital. I also pulled the trigger and spent some time smoothing down those serrations on the trigger. Finally the original tiny grips are now stored in the box for the big ugly Hogue rubber grips now mounted to the gun.
 
Guess I get to be the contrarian, again. I am not a fan of reduced power springs in a firearm that is intended for the critical use of self-defense. This in not where you want a light trigger pull that a prosecutor might use against you in a court room nor do you want to be in a defensive situation only to pull the trigger and all you get is "click".

Since you said this revolver has been a safe queen for 20 or so years, it should be thoroughly cleaned to remove old, gummy lubricant and then given a proper lubrication. That alone might improve the trigger. Beyond that, dry firing and live firing will smooth out the trigger pull.
 
stansdds said:
Guess I get to be the contrarian, again. I am not a fan of reduced power springs in a firearm that is intended for the critical use of self-defense. This in not where you want a light trigger pull that a prosecutor might use against you in a court room nor do you want to be in a defensive situation only to pull the trigger and all you get is "click".

Since you said this revolver has been a safe queen for 20 or so years, it should be thoroughly cleaned to remove old, gummy lubricant and then given a proper lubrication. That alone might improve the trigger. Beyond that, dry firing and live firing will smooth out the trigger pull.
Click to expand...

Contrarian is good. Please point me in the direction of one self defense case that was decided based on the concept of "too light of a trigger pull".

One other aspect of changing to a lighter spring set is having a strong enough rebound spring to return the trigger for a fast second shot. The Apex kit has been dead solid reliable for me. What ever the OP decides to do, it is very important that he put a few hundred rounds through the gun to make sure everything is working before carrying it.
 
cmj8591 said:
Contrarian is good. Please point me in the direction of one self defense case that was decided based on the concept of "too light of a trigger pull".

One other aspect of changing to a lighter spring set is having a strong enough rebound spring to return the trigger for a fast second shot. The Apex kit has been dead solid reliable for me. What ever the OP decides to do, it is very important that he put a few hundred rounds through the gun to make sure everything is working before carrying it.
Click to expand...
I'm not an attorney nor a spokesperson for an attorney, so I cannot cite a case, but we currently live in a brave, new world.
 
stansdds said:
I'm not an attorney nor a spokesperson for an attorney, so I cannot cite a case, but we currently live in a brave, new world.
Click to expand...

And therein lies the rub. This kind of idea comes up on the interweb and gets repeated and repeated and after a while, becomes a fact that controls how people go about their business. When in reality, it's really just wives tales. The same thing goes for using reloads or hollow point ammo or whatever else you can think of. The bottom line if you get into a shooting will be, were you justified in using deadly force? If you were, it won't matter. If you were not, it won't matter. What kind of springs you had in your gun or what kind of ammo you use is not going to change weather or not your application of force is justified.
 
Thanks Guys. I appreciate all replies. Including the "Contrarians". Someone once said "Contrarians" make the world go around. Or was it, "Contrarians" make the world wobble?
I still haven't decided if I will do the upgrade. If I do, I will post the results here.
I do see where S&W says any non-gunsmith adjustments to the gun will void the lifetime warranty.
 
Last edited:
A change is not necessarily an upgrade. Everything considered, I'm not not sure that anyone upgrades a Smith & Wesson revolver, although perhaps Austin Behlert came close (would have come closer if he had left the hammer block in).

I have seen some changes that were not upgrades, and heard of more.
 
tws3boys said:
Thanks Guys. I appreciate all replies. Including the "Contrarians". Someone once said "Contrarians" make the world go around. Or was it, "Contrarians" make the world wobble?
I still haven't decided if I will do the upgrade. If I do, I will post the results here.
I do see where S&W says any non-gunsmith adjustments to the gun will void the lifetime warranty.
Click to expand...

What kind of 'gunsmith?' The majority of 'gunsmiths' today probably couldn't find the grip screw.

Many who call themselves 'gunsmiths' are assemblers. They consider that putting together the various parts of an AR 15 entitles them to call themselves a 'gunsmith.'

I worked on my S&W M49 50 years ago to smooth the action and reduce the apparent trigger pull. It's still working today. Smoother than any new S&W.

Learn to do your own gun work. It's not difficult and with patience, study, and proper tools there's very little you can't do yourself.

Otherwise find an established gunsmith whose CV qualifies them to make that legitimate claim. There are few out there who qualify.

Good luck.
 
stansdds said:
Guess I get to be the contrarian, again. I am not a fan of reduced power springs in a firearm that is intended for the critical use of self-defense. This in not where you want a light trigger pull that a prosecutor might use against you in a court room nor do you want to be in a defensive situation only to pull the trigger and all you get is "click".

Since you said this revolver has been a safe queen for 20 or so years, it should be thoroughly cleaned to remove old, gummy lubricant and then given a proper lubrication. That alone might improve the trigger. Beyond that, dry firing and live firing will smooth out the trigger pull.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more! ESPECIALLY on a SD / EDC / CCW gun. I am no stranger to tweaking a Range or competition revolver but my M60-7 which was my EDC for 42 years (prior to replacing that with a Sig P365, 4 years ago) remained Factory. If ever needed to save my or someone else's life ,I always wanted 100% certainty it would work. Not to even mention what a prosecuting Lawyer would have to say about it. Just my opinion - YMMV
 
Last edited:
If a lighter trigger pull allows you to make more accurate shots more quickly while maintaininf reliability without making the gun unsafe then I do not see an issue with it.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 
studenygreg said:
If a lighter trigger pull allows you to make more accurate shots more quickly while maintaininf reliability without making the gun unsafe then I do not see an issue with it.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Not that it's just, but a prosecutor would use that against you to "show" you made your gun an easier tool to kill with. Yes, I know it is stupid - but that is precisely what they do now days.

The other thing that no one mentioned here is this..... A small framed gun always is harder to fire smoothly than a larger framed gun with the same trigger pull weight - at least to me. So even if a J Frame trigger pull isn't appreciably heavier than a K Frame it certainly might give the impression of being so. Not only that but I'd also think that the lighter and smaller J Frame Hammer would need a little bit more force to reliably set off a primer. In order to lighten up a small J Frame that might be sacrificed.
 
chief38 said:
Not that it's just, but a prosecutor would use that against you to "show" you made your gun an easier tool to kill with. Yes, I know it is stupid - but that is precisely what they do now days.

.
Click to expand...

If the self-defense action meets the 5 elements of a justified action, trigger pull won't matter.

If the self-defense action fails to meet the 5 elements of a justified action, it still won't matter.

Too many shooters haven't a clue about what constitutes a justified claim of self-defense.

It's easy to learn, but many shooters will not take the time to study and actually know which leads to many myths and misconceptions.
 
crc4 said:
If the self-defense action meets the 5 elements of a justified action, trigger pull won't matter.

If the self-defense action fails to meet the 5 elements of a justified action, it still won't matter.

Too many shooters haven't a clue about what constitutes a justified claim of self-defense.

It's easy to learn, but many shooters will not take the time to study and actually know which leads to many myths and misconceptions.
Click to expand...

You could be correct - I am not a Lawyer and can't say for certain. I can only base my opinion on what I read and see on the news. Today's court proceedings and rulings seem to be bases as much on propaganda by the MSM and such as they are by the facts. Who is in power at the time has much to do with the results as well. Today, public opinion sometimes means more than what is right or wrong. I think we have all realized what they call an assault weapon does not and never has fit the criteria of what it really is by definition. Does that matter to a jury or a judge?
 
To to OP:

Yes & yes, to almost all my S&W & Taurus revolvers.

Do it yourself. You will learn a lot. You will learn not to fear the revolver and its guts.

1. Buy a good gunsmith screwdriver kit (or the old Smith & Wesson driver & bit package from Brownells...but get the bigger kit so you can work on other guns).

2. There are PLENTY of videos on yootoob showing how to install spring kits and hone surfaces s m o o t h. Midway USA, Miculek, ohters. (If you want to do the latter, amazon has super-cheap stoning kits).

3. Don't be afraid to start light (spring-wise), test for function, and repeat until your revolver lights off the ammo you want it to light off. Test/feel for good rebound, too.

I have always used Wolff spring kits to dial in what I want, but others have sucess with competing kits.

Good luck.
 
I hated the feel of the spring kit, and have stuck with stock since then (on 5 different J’s). But I know other people like them, they’re cheap, and reversible. Don’t hurt to give it a try.
 
mikerjf said:
I hated the feel of the spring kit, and have stuck with stock since then (on 5 different J’s). But I know other people like them, they’re cheap, and reversible. Don’t hurt to give it a try.
Click to expand...

If you know what you're doing you can polish the action in the right spots and never need to change the springs.

Very often, people complain about the trigger pull weight when it's actually the smoothness that's lacking.

Making it smoother makes the trigger pull feel less heavy.
 
Proper polishing can work wonders for a double action revolver and when done properly, does not affect function nor safety.
 
stansdds said:
Proper polishing can work wonders for a double action revolver and when done properly, does not affect function nor safety.
Click to expand...

I would consider polishing. But, I have not found a gunsmith anywhere near me and I expect the cost would be high if I did manage to find one.
 
tws3boys said:
I would consider polishing. But, I have not found a gunsmith anywhere near me and I expect the cost would be high if I did manage to find one.
Click to expand...

If you're willing to learn,and have the simplest tools, it's an easy job. You take your time, polish, refit, and test.

A simple polish job is within anyone's capability with the right attitude.

Plus, there's a dearth of 'gunsmiths' who actually know how to do simple jobs. The guy at the LGS who claims to be a 'gunsmith' because he can change grips on a revolver is not to be trusted.
 
stansdds said:
Polishing the double action surfaces is fairly easy to do, it's the single action engagement surfaces that usually get people into trouble.
Click to expand...

I don't think I'm going to do a polish job. I was thinking of using a little dab of Flitz "Non-abrasive" on contact surfaces when I go in to clean and oil. . I used Flitz on a Taurus g3c that just could not get a round into the chamber. Since over a 1000 rounds without a single fail.
 
tws3boys said:
I don't think I'm going to do a polish job. I was thinking of using a little dab of Flitz "Non-abrasive" on contact surfaces when I go in to clean and oil. . I used Flitz on a Taurus g3c that just could not get a round into the chamber. Since over a 1000 rounds without a single fail.
Click to expand...

Smoothing the sliding surfaces is an easy job, and won't hurt ANYTHING. The main place to avoid polishing or smoothing is the sear and hammer surfaces where they mate up. That requires expertise that most of us simply do not have.

I use a medium Norton India stone to simply take off any high spots from the hammer sides and rebound slide sides and bottom.

Smooth the high spots on the flat side of the hammer shown facing you in the photo, and on the flat side opposite.

Smith & Wesson J-Frame Hammer, Enclosed: MGW

Smooth the sides and the bottom of the rebound side as well.

Rebound Slide Assembly, J Frame, Mis-Machined | Gun Parts Corp.
 
I decided to take a look inside to see if everything was in good working order or it needed a good cleaning.
I pulled the cylinder and found the shaft it rides on was a little grungy. Not bad, but could use a cleaning. A little ballistol on a pad cleaned it up nice. Lubed it up with some ewg and put it back. Took the side plate off to check out the trigger works. To my surprise it was pretty dang clean. At least for a 23 year old gun. Still had plenty of oil where it needed to be. All those years and there was still factory oil in there. And, it looked clear and clean.
Everything looked real good so I just soaked up some of the old oil on a pad and cleaned around the edges. A few drops of Hopp's Elite oil " probably a little too much" and put the side plate back on.
Sitting there dry firing a few minutes I decided I'm not going to do a trigger job. I actually liked the feel just the way it is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
686-5 upgrade
Replies
3
Views
259
BillBro
B
7
My only two L frames and a quick range trip today
Replies
3
Views
196
Hawg Rider
Hawg Rider
cmansguns
  • Locked
J Frame Parts Kit with Magna stocks! Last chance before Flea Bay tomorrow LOWER PRICE
Replies
1
Views
387
cmansguns
cmansguns
A
Difficult to open cylinder-J frame
Replies
24
Views
916
CH4
CH4
D
model 69 hammer stiff in SA
Replies
3
Views
155
davidrv
D

Latest posts

Back
Top