J-Frame vs. Shield

[jeeps]

Yes pistols like the Shield and Block ,XD are prone to Accidental discharge more so than other pistols. And if you get the safety model shield it is too small to operate fast. Our local body shop has had to fix a half dozen PD cars with bullet holes through the seat and floor from disharges from there SW Mp auto's. And these are police not untrained John Doe CCW or Web Commando's who know all accidents waiting to happen.

 

[sawlog]

I have had and carried a model 60 pro and a shield. love them both but sold the shield to buy my wife her carry gun. physically the model 60 is more comfortable to carry for me. the back end of a striker fired gun drives me nuts when my forearm rubs it. plus I trust a revolver more.
cant beat my 60 in my opinion

 

[AZretired]

I carried a 442 for 40+ years, I keep trying to go to an auto but always seem to end up with the 442 back in my holster.
"J's" are nice for carry, and they always work.

I know what you probably meant to say, cause I've carried a J frame of some sort for the last 38 years (60, 640, 638, 642) but I don't think the 442 was around in 1974.

 

[waffles]

I love the J frame, but as soon as I got my Shield I relegated my 642 to being a car gun. Just as easy to carry, more capacity/better round, faster reloads, and easier to shoot.

There will always be a place for a J frame. I can slip it in a coat pocket, I have the DeSantis "clip grips" if I decide I need a quick tuck in the waistband piece, and it's perfect for tucking in a bike jersey or pocket of hiking pants, but I've found that modern guns like the shield have some pretty hefty benefits.

 

[eveled]

If you are talking BUG, carry the one that matches your primary gun's caliber. I don't have a shield, but I have a 9mm PPS Walther. Most of the time I have a J frame in my pocket. Ed

 

[wildenout]

I lean towards the model 60, because it's all I have right Now haha. But if'n I get my way I will use it as a winter carry and an XDS for summer (cuz in Vegas you sweat and only a polymer gun will do). I read something the other day on here that really got me thinking, it said "you'll have to be accountable for your shots" I had never thought of that before really. I'd rather have 5 and make myself calm down and think vs. a spray and pray, not that the Shield has that many more, but you can catch my drift right? All that aside, I just think revolvers are BA and manly.

 

[buckeyejake]

I have owned a 60 for 40 years , mostly carry a Seecamp now . I bought a shield 9 , no problems at all . I gave it to my son in law , put the biggest smile on his face . The shield is a great little nine.

Jake

 

[petepeterson]

Our Chief shot himself in the leg holstering his SW 40 Shield.Medina Police Chief & ex-ATF supervisor Patrick Berarducci accidently shoots self in right leg | cleveland.com I like the J-frame period. Plastic wonders no-thanks.

This is the one thing, right or wrong, that keeps me glued to TDA autos and revolvers. I was even OK with cocked and locked, but I can't get past the mental block of a Glock-type trigger, as much as I want to. I'm a head-case.

 

[Mountain Walker]

Likewise, nd's are much less frequent with revolvers than pistols.

Actually, this is an important point. Very slim chance a civilian will have to use his CCW for personal defense. More likely to have a ND and the revolver has a better reputation.

 

[HarrishMasher]

I think that is a disingenuous statement. The chief in the story did not pull the trigger. The local guy in my story did not pull the trigger. There are other stories like this, too. Light triggers are easier to actuate. Easier to actuate even by a slight fold of leather or a drawstring from a coat.

It is entirely reasonable to insert a pistol into a holster with 5lbs of force. It is substantially less reasonable to insert a pistol using 10lbs of force or more, which is what it would take to discharge a double action revolver. A semi auto with an engaged manual safety is impossible to discharge in this fashion.

Some firearm designs are indeed simply safer. Since analogies are fun and it's Christmas time: it's just like walking around with a glass Christmas ornament in a pocket contrasted with carrying a plastic ornament--sure we can blame the carrier for being careless if he breaks his ornament, but the carrier would have been significantly less likely to break the plastic Christmas ornament and if broken it wouldn't result in glass shards in his pocket.

You are 100% correct. It is much easier to pull a trigger on a Glock or a Shield than a 12lb J Frame trigger. But in all honesty, it doesn't matter. A trigger is a trigger and when it gets pulled your gun is going to fire. That is why when you are holstering your gun, you do it very carefully. If your gun goes off when you are holstering it, regardless of the weight of the trigger pull, it is 100% your fault. There are no exceptions to this.

And when you holster a gun that you KNOW has a lighter trigger, you do it that much more cautiously. I know when I am carrying one of my guns with a light trigger, I put it in my holster extra carefully. I do it so carefully it is to the point I am neurotic about it. And that is a good thing.

I own over a dozen revolvers. All have trigger jobs. Some have competition trigger jobs and have a 4 to 5lb DA trigger pull, just like a Glock. You better believe I am watching those slide in my holster nice and safely every time they go in. And clearly this officer was not doing that. The gun is not to blame AT ALL. 100% his fault.

 

[snubbyfan]

You are 100% correct. It is much easier to pull a trigger on a Glock or a Shield than a 12lb J Frame trigger. But in all honesty, it doesn't matter. A trigger is a trigger and when it gets pulled your gun is going to fire. That is why when you are holstering your gun, you do it very carefully. If your gun goes off when you are holstering it, regardless of the weight of the trigger pull, it is 100% your fault. There are no exceptions to this.

And when you holster a gun that you KNOW has a lighter trigger, you do it that much more cautiously. I know when I am carrying one of my guns with a light trigger, I put it in my holster extra carefully. I do it so carefully it is to the point I am neurotic about it. And that is a good thing.

I own over a dozen revolvers. All have trigger jobs. Some have competition trigger jobs and have a 4 to 5lb DA trigger pull, just like a Glock. You better believe I am watching those slide in my holster nice and safely every time they go in. And clearly this officer was not doing that. The gun is not to blame AT ALL. 100% his fault.

That's one of the things I keep in mind when designing holsters. In my research, I've seen open top holster designs with a bump up or an upward curve at the trigger guard. Yeah it'll cover the trigger once the gun's holstered but what could happen when the leather softens?

I try to design mine so the gun fits in, yet allows a full grip.

 

[Waywatcher]

You are 100% correct. It is much easier to pull a trigger on a Glock or a Shield than a 12lb J Frame trigger. But in all honesty, it doesn't matter. A trigger is a trigger and when it gets pulled your gun is going to fire. That is why when you are holstering your gun, you do it very carefully. If your gun goes off when you are holstering it, regardless of the weight of the trigger pull, it is 100% your fault. There are no exceptions to this.

And when you holster a gun that you KNOW has a lighter trigger, you do it that much more cautiously. I know when I am carrying one of my guns with a light trigger, I put it in my holster extra carefully. I do it so carefully it is to the point I am neurotic about it. And that is a good thing.

I own over a dozen revolvers. All have trigger jobs. Some have competition trigger jobs and have a 4 to 5lb DA trigger pull, just like a Glock. You better believe I am watching those slide in my holster nice and safely every time they go in. And clearly this officer was not doing that. The gun is not to blame AT ALL. 100% his fault.

I think I am approaching this from a different angle.

I am not interested in assigning blame; I'm interested in preventing the discharge altogether, even in imperfect circumstances. A firearm with a heavy DA pull or a manual safety is significantly less likely to discharge unintentionally--which leads to the logical and empirical conclusion that these types of firearms result in fewer unintentional discharges--regardless of who or what is to blame.

All that said, I wouldn't say I disagree with you.

 

[HarrishMasher]

I think I am approaching this from a different angle.

I am not interested in assigning blame; I'm interested in preventing the discharge altogether, even in imperfect circumstances. A firearm with a heavy DA pull or a manual safety is significantly less likely to discharge unintentionally--which leads to the logical and empirical conclusion that these types of firearms result in fewer unintentional discharges--regardless of who or what is to blame.

All that said, I wouldn't say I disagree with you.

I completely agree with you.

 

[HarrishMasher]

That's one of the things I keep in mind when designing holsters. In my research, I've seen open top holster designs with a bump up or an upward curve at the trigger guard. Yeah it'll cover the trigger once the gun's holstered but what could happen when the leather softens?

I try to design mine so the gun fits in, yet allows a full grip.

That Galco slide holster is an accident waiting to happen.

That J Frame Holster is a beauty!

 

[CH4]

Both, at the same time.

...and have Mary Ann bring along one of her coconut cream pies
to add a little something extra to the experience.

 

[UpTheHill]

You are 100% correct. It is much easier to pull a trigger on a Glock or a Shield than a 12lb J Frame trigger. But in all honesty, it doesn't matter. A trigger is a trigger and when it gets pulled your gun is going to fire. That is why when you are holstering your gun, you do it very carefully. If your gun goes off when you are holstering it, regardless of the weight of the trigger pull

which is why I like revolvers (or pistols) with an exposed hammer. when holstering, my trigger finger is over the trigger guard protecting the trigger, AND my thumb is resting on the hammer. IF something starts to pull the trigger, I WILL feel the hammer start to move and know to stop immediately and check.

 

[MattNH]

I bought a Shield 40 to carry and did. I bought a 1979ish Model 60 because it is awesome and I got it for a good price. My brother's duty gun is .40S&W and the Shield was the only thing I had in 40. I gave it to him. Thinking I would replace it with a Shield 9. In the meantime I started carrying the 60. Haven't bought the 9 yet.

Shot both in a friendly match, different distances from the gimme 3 yards out to 25 yards, timed with reloads. 50 rounds, max score 500. Finished 2nd with the Shield with a score of 469 (17X's), finished 4th with a score of 462 (16X's) with the J frame. Winner was 475/500 but only 10X's.

For me, the Shield carried a little easier with the thinner profile, but the J frame works as well. I was comfortable with both, confident shooting with both.

So, all I can say, having experience with both, you ultimately can't go wrong with either. But, I still haven't gone out to get a Shield 9 yet.

 

[Rav]

I owned a shield 9 for 6 months. I just could not get attached to it. I ended up trading it for a 642 and have not looked back. The 642 is my edc and it goes everywhere I go.

 

[Mountain Walker]

Me too--either a cocked & locked semi-auto or a double action revolver. Hard to beat a J-Frame in a pocket for deep concealment.

A local guy (former military and current CC holder) shot himself in the leg with an XD, much like the above story. He also kept his finger out of the trigger guard, just like that chief.

There is inherent safety in a ~10lb revolver trigger pull or a manual safety during administrative tasks like holstering that Glocks/XDs/safetyless M&Ps or Shields lack.

Keep in mind that the Shield with thumb safety and XD with external grip safety are not in the same class as striker weapons such as Glock or M&P, which have no external safety except for the ineffective trigger safeties. The user of the XD should always holster his weapon with the thumb on the back of the slide, not touching the grip safety. That way the XD grip safety will protect against discharge during holstering process. The Shield thumb safety also protects from discharge during holstering.

Agree with Waywatcher that the J-frame accomplishes the safety task quite well with the long and substantial DA trigger.

 

[Mountain Walker]

Yes pistols like the Shield and Block ,XD are prone to Accidental discharge more so than other pistols. And if you get the safety model shield it is too small to operate fast. Our local body shop has had to fix a half dozen PD cars with bullet holes through the seat and floor from disharges from there SW Mp auto's. And these are police not untrained John Doe CCW or Web Commando's who know all accidents waiting to happen.

Keep in mind that XD has external grip safety and if operator puts thumb on back of slide and keeps off the grip safety, the XD grip safety will protect from AD. XD users should always adopt this protocol when holstering these weapons.