Jet Stuff

[S/W - Lifer]

Anyone needing a Model 53 Jet cylinder should search the gun auction sites (Not sure about mentioning specific names so I'll avoid that). The number to search under is 122768622. There is about 8 hours left on the auction and the price is reasonable. I'm not a gun broker, nor am I involved in the auction in any way. Just thought someone might be interested.

Swissman was looking for one of these and I've emailed him twice and he has not responded. Hope one of you guys gets it.

Also, a very well known general auction site has a number of .22 Jet items, to include a forming die set, at a very reasonable price.

Jets seem to be the topic of the day so here is a little follow-on that might be helpful.

S/W - Lifer

 

[M29since14]

I didn't see what the cylinder went for, but last time I looked, it was too rich for me.

I have never heard of anyone having much luck with forming Jet brass. Accuracy always seems to suffer. Jet accuracy with handloads is always hard for me to come by, and the newer the brass, the less trouble I have.

Anyone here have any luck with brass formed from 357s? Would be interesting to hear from you.

 

[S/W - Lifer]

I bought Jet cylinders several years ago. Got a deal on 3, don't recall what I paid for them, but it seemed reasonable at the time.

Also have forming dies but have yet to try them. I regard them as "plan B" but do want to convert some .357 cases into Jet brass. I believe nickle plated cases are going to be out of the question and I suspect annealing might be required. I did buy a case of Jet brass a couple of years ago when I found it available.

I've also found in loading .357 ammunition that all brass is not created identically. There seem to be noteable differences between makers and I doubt all are suited to case reforming.

I suspect a couple of key points in loading Jet ammunition is keeping cases trimmed - they grow quickly with full loads. Also, the use of rifle primers will better allow access to the Jet's full potential.

I also have a concern is with bullets. I prefer the factory bullet to all else. The Hornady .222 bullet is next up to my thinking for several reasons. My last choices at this point are the .223 bullets intended for rifle velocities.

Then there is the matter of powder. I could go on here but I'll just say there is work to be done in this arena. I wonder about the potential of Little Gun and if anyone has tried it.

 

[Swissman]

Originally posted by S/W - Lifer:

Swissman was looking for one of these and I've emailed him twice and he has not responded.

S/W - Lifer

S/W - Lifer, Thanks for reminding me. I sent you an answer monday evening, but it came back. [email protected]. I don't know what was wrong.

Swissman

 

[M29since14]

Lifer - Ipsnay on Lil Gun. No data, and my experience indicates that moderate speed powders insure better functioning. I have all but given up on slow powders, but one never says never...

 

[rburg]

I wonder about the Remington brand Jet bullets. Its an area I've never given a lot of thought to. I guess I could pull one and measure it, then compare it with the Hornady equivalent.

We have a poster here who in the past has said he got his best accuracy out of .224 bullets. I think I'm getting pressure signs, and I don't want to confuse that with accuracy...

Has anyone ever tried to swage down a .223 or .224? First thing we probably need to do is measure more than one factory Jet bullet. If there is one thing I've got, its a bunch of loaded factory ammo.

Has anyone tested or do they have comments on the off-brand Jet ammo being loaded in Mexico (or where ever?) What bullet are they using?

Can you even move enough copper to make a .224 into a .223 or .222? Just asking. Anyone here smart?

 

[S/W - Lifer]

When it comes to handloading there is no shortage of inaccurate date or information regarding the .22 Jet cartridge. With that in mind, it is difficult to get factual, accurate data to work with.

Let's see if someone who has boxed Remington Jet bullets can measure a sample for us. I've read sources citing.222, .2225 and .223 as being the size of the factory bullet. Getting that confirmed would be a step in the right direction.

Yes, .224 bullets can be swaged to .223 using a die system. I believe this is easily done.

My greater concern lies with bullet jacket thickness and hardness, as well as the alloy of the bullet core. If a bullet is designed for varmint rifles we may not see adequate expansion in a revolver. .223 bullets intended for the .22 Hornet may be viable.

Having used it in the field to hunt varmints I have seen the utter destructiveness of the Jet bullet. I suspect, but cannot confirm, that the Remington Jet bullet core is, or nearly is, unalloyed lead. Also, the bullet jacket is minimal and intended to function with full effectiveness at revolver velocity.

I'm not sure how to go about it but what Jet shooters really need is have Remington make a run of bullets as loading components.

FWIW.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Just my two cents guys, but a revolver will almost always shoot its best when bullets are sized according to the throats, not the bore. Even in a high velocity round like the Jet. It doesn't operate at any higher pressure than rounds like the .454, .475 etc., and they work best in that regard, either with lead or jacketed. Jet bullets are almost pure lead cored which means they will swage down in the bore ok. It's far more critical to match throat dimention with bullet than bore.

 

[perrazi]

answered this on another thread,but i have had the best luck with sierra .223 40 grain hornet bullets. they will expand at least at 100yds. 2400 is the powder i have had the best luck with both speed and accuracy. my normal load is 9.5 up to 11.5 but that is very hot and will require a dowel to push out the empties. i have been shooting these since 1969 and have owned more than 25 over the years and still have 6.

 

[M29since14]

Can you even move enough copper to make a .224 into a .223 or .222? Just asking. Anyone here smart?

If you work with metal much, you know it is fairly easy to move small amounts of lead and copper around with steel. The issue is, what happens when you do it, thus your concern about pressure, and to a lesser degree, whether the bullet remains structurally sound.

(BTW - no claim to be "smart.")

All revolvers are individuals - in fact, almost like a family of individuals in one gun - since you have six chambers. My "thinking" is that I am not nearly as concerned with pressure as the bullet goes down the barrel as I am with it getting out of the cylinder. In both of my remaining Jets, a .224 diamter bullet will drop nicely through EVERY chamber, in both cylinders, with no discernible resistance.

I do not hotrod any gun. I am always more than willing to buy a bigger one, if needed, so I don't have any reason to crank one up to the red line. My typical Jet loads run in the 1500-1800 FPS range, and usually will shoot a pretty nice group. If you shoot five groups in a row, invariably, you will get one that will make you shake your head (among other things).

I do not suggest that anyone use .224 bullets, based on my experience. The Jet shooter needs to evaluate his gun carefully, and do some careful measuring before trying anything out of the ordinary. If he doesn't have tools to do this, he should buy some and practice using them before making any judgments, since precision measuring tools do take a little skill to use.

I have never had any Remington component bullets to reload. I do know factory loads shoot better than anything I can make, but that doesn't necessarily mean the bullets are the only thing making them work. I also know new or once-fired brass delivers substantially better accuracy than brass that has been loaded 5-6 times. But even with new brass, I don't seem to be able to duplicate Remington's results either for accuracy or velocity, using the bullets I have to work with.

I would sure love to have about 1000 Remington bullets to monkey with. It would be just what is needed to get me interested in breaking out the Jets again and doing some more R&D. As things stand, I am happy with the loads I have, and not concerned about the safety aspect, but they are not factory equivalent. I have seen more than one ruined Jet cylinder, but (knock on wood) so far, none of them have been mine.

 

[rburg]

Originally posted by M29since14:
I have seen more than one ruined Jet cylinder, but (knock on wood) so far, none of them have been mine.

I've seen a couple guns for sale just over the last few months, being marketed as 22 lr or K22s because they have the LR cylinder installed, with no idea where the Jet cylinder has gone. I wonder if they were blown up by one of your hot rod friends?

 

[toroflow1]

As for powders, I like using Blue Dot in my 53 for the brilliant muzzle flash!

I just have to remind myself to quit shooting it around dusk, as it nearly blinds me!!

 

[perrazi]

for a little thought. original remington red box jet bullets are .222 diameter exact and length is .514. later green box bullets are same diameter but length is .494. sierra 40gr. hornet length is .496. this is what i was saying as regards to bearing surface affecting accuracy. measuring tool was starrett dial micometer.hope this helps in some way on this.

 

[M29since14]

I wonder if they were blown up by one of your hot rod friends?

Yep, they're out there. That is why there is always interest in Jet cylinders. Never know when you might want one to rehab a gun.

A few months ago, a pretty nice, but wrecked, 4-screw gun showed up locally. The dealer wanted $459. At that time, I had no spare cylinders. I offered him $275. He laughed at me and declined.

One of my stupider mistakes...

He sold the gun fairly quickly, before I could recover from my fumble. The cylinder was bulged so badly it would not easily rotate past the top strap. He said something about the new owner using it as a four-shooter.

You would not believe some of the handloaded Jet ammo I have bought at gun shows and spent an evening tearing down. Then again, maybe you would.

 

[M29since14]

for a little thought. original remington red box jet bullets are .222 diameter exact and length is .514.

It would be interesting to do some further testing on them. One thing I would say for sure, without any further ado, is that the .222 diameter is NOT what makes them shoot well in my guns. I have cut a few cloverleaf groups with Hornady's .222 diameter bullets, but the other two rounds could easily be 2-3 inches away, at 25-yards. The Hornady bullet is a waste of money and good powder, as far as I can tell, but I have seen others here who claim to get good results with them.

I would like to be standing by to watch when the folks who have good luck with them fire five consecutive, five-round groups, from a Model 53, that amount to anything.

 

[perrazi]

after shooting 25 or so jets over the years,i have never had a good 10 shot group of hornady jet bullets. i have shot some decent 5 round groups but nothing nearly as good as the remington bullets. someone who knows someone at remington should see if they would do a run of real jet bullets. i would buy 5000 myself.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by perrazi:
for a little thought. original remington red box jet bullets are .222 diameter exact and length is .514. later green box bullets are same diameter but length is .494. sierra 40gr. hornet length is .496. this is what i was saying as regards to bearing surface affecting accuracy. measuring tool was starrett dial micometer.hope this helps in some way on this.

I just confirmed this measurement and it doesn't surprise me since that's what the cartridge was designed to use. I have always gotten my best results from Hornady 40 grain .222 bullets. Using .223 and .224 have both resulted in unsatisfactory results which include high pressure signs and pro accuracy amd short case life.

 

[jrm53]

On the forming of Rem Jet from .357 brass I have read an article on how to and now I cant find the thing, but I think the key is to anneal the new cases first. They said to get a pan and fill it to a depth of about 1/2 the length of the .357 case use a propane torch to heat, I think until it changes color and then push the hot case over into the water do all your case and then use the forming dies to finish I did 300 using new brass, not nickle plated and didnt have promblem crushing or collapse or telescope any I have loaded some but didnot shoot for a group, had to use .223 Hornet 40 gr. bullets and 2400 powder. When I got the 53 I bought Rem Jet unprimed brass and loaded some they were quite impressive with no kick. One other note if the brass flows to the neck after forming you may have to Forester outside neck turner to turn any excess off. The last time I checked Midway they listed no Remington Jet brass and only Hornady .222 dia. bullets at a rather high price per 100. The Jet is a lot easier to form than 219 Donaldson Wasp, they will all telescope if you dont anneal the brass if made from 30-30 cases. It is very nice to read about others experience with this pistol as no one I know has one to compare with.

 

[S/W - Lifer]

At last, interest in the Jet. I've been chasing this dog since I was a youngster and I'm not done yet. I'm glad to see folks writing in.

What about someone in Forum management reaching out to Remington and trying to negotiate a run of factory bullets? It would only take a phone call and we might succeed in getting someone to listen. Things could be slow around Remington with the economy acting up and hunting season over with. I'd be happy with a bulk purchase of 5K and maybe more, depending on price.

I'm even starting to think about swaging my own. I've got to look into this.

Many thanks to all who are contributing, especially factual data.

S/W - Lifer

 

[M29since14]

Things could be slow around Remington with the economy acting up and hunting season over with.

While I would love to have some of those bullets, I can't imagine we could get a big enough order together to tempt them. Remington is probably busy making big business deals with manufacturers in other countries to bring guns into the U.S., rather than making them themselves. Likely also fiddling around with military contracts for sniper rifles and who knows what else. Thank heavens they run a batch of brass every now and then!