Jet Stuff

[S/W - Lifer]

KKG - What is stopping me is that I have no authority to speak on behalf of the Forum, formally or otherwise. What may - and only may - carry the day is someone who can legitimately speak and/or otherwise legimately represent the Forum to Remington. I'd like to step forward with institutional representation rather than an individual voice.

That gets me to thinking. Maybe a letter on Forum letterhead is the way to go. I surely don't mind getting into the fray on this thing, I just want to do it in a way that gives us a shot at success.

 

[jrm53]

I was cheching through a 1974 Shooters Bible and on page 406 in the Lyman cast bullet section they list bullet # 225107 which is a 38 gr. with a lube groove and a cut for a gas check, I suppose they dont make this any more but it would sure be interesting to try some lead bullets with a reduced charge but that would defeat the purpose of the Jet in the first place. I dont suppose any body out there might have this mold or might have already tried this?

 

[S/W - Lifer]

I did a hasty search and found that this bullet has been loaded to over 2000 fps in the Jet. Also checked Lyman and this does not appear to be a currently produced mold.

Nope, I don't have one. I'll bet it is a bear to cast.

 

[BUFF]

Somewhere in the garage, I have a .22 caliber Lyman mould that throws a gas-checked, fairly flat-nosed bullet that weighs about 60 grains when cast from wheelweight metal. I used to load them in Jet cases over a pinch of Bullseye and they sounded about like a good pellet rifle when shot out of the 10 inch Contender barrel. They would usually penetrate a skunk's or big rabbit's head without exiting. I was assigned to an area of the county that still had lots of open, unbuilt areas, horse properties, some chicken and mink farms and lots of skunks. I would pack the Contender along on graveyard shift and shot probably more than 100 skunks with it over 6 or 7 years. If they weren't already about to spray when shot, but just sort of hunkered down hoping you hadn't seen them, a head shot just about never resulted in them stinking up the place. I had a rubber Pachmyer fore-end and pistol grip on it, so with the 3X scope mounted, I just rolled the window down to the appropriate level to give me the right elevation and rested the fore-end on the top edge of the window, and it shot like a good .22 rifle with much less noise than even .22 CB Caps gave me.

I never tried that bullet in a Model 53 because it would have been noisier than the T/C and I didn't want to ding up my nice 53's carting them around.

Maybe I ought to find the mould or some loaded ammo if I still have any and try it out in a revolver now.

I know that this doesn't further the body of knowledge this thread seeks to expand, but it is late, I'm not sleepy and I just felt like typing it. It is some good memories!

 

[S/W - Lifer]

Given the Jet's age, our ages and the fact that this is more hobby than work, good memories are important. Fun is a factor.

 

[M29since14]

Jrm52 - Joel Penney, out in California, used to cast several Jet bullets in linotype. I bought a couple boxes from him, and intended to try them in the 1500 FPS range. At that time, I was so frustrated with the Jet in general that I didn't want to make things worse, so I set them aside. They are probably still hiding in my basement somewhere. I do not know if Mr. Penney is still casting, or how to get a hold of him. If there is interest, I might be able to go through my old papers and see if I can find an address and phone number.

 

[moosedog]

Damn, now you guys did it. You've got me wanting to pull out my old 4 screw 53 this week end.
Last time I had it out I worked up some loads with the Hornady Jet bullets but never got anywhere near a factory load dupication.
I did hit a possum broadside with a Remington factory load and was very impressed.
I think i'll give Perrazi's Sierra bullets a try.
I've spotted a huge Feral cat in back recently and would like to test it out on her.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by S/W - Lifer: ...I'd like to step forward with institutional representation rather than an individual voice...

Use what you've got. I wrote an email to Remington last night. I don't know if it will do any good but if nobody else does I'm SURE it won't. I don't suppose you wrote to Hornady either - so there is one less chance of anything happening there, too. All it takes is one vote to tip the scales in the right direction. I didn't make any promises, I just said I'd be interested in seeing them do another run of these bullets.

I've found another source of the Hornady bullets that are "In Stock" at what I consider a reasonable price so I might just add to my current Stocks. I've always had good luck with the Hornady bullets but I do think I'd like to see something besides the 'flat point' design become available.

BTW I'm sure Lee doesn't even have any "Forum Stationary" and the only person Lee speaks for is Lee and I'm sure that's the way he wants to keep it.

<span class="ev_code_RED">This applies to everyone here who is interested in seeing something happen!!! Nothing will happen if all we do is sit back and tell each other we'd like to see such and such happen.</span>

 

[S/W - Lifer]

I think the NRA has proven that speaking with a unified voice is more effective than speaking individually. I have no doubt that a single motivated voice is better than silence, which is never heard.

It would seem that the Smith & Wesson Forum has the potential to speak with a measure of influence in matters related to Smith & Wesson firearms. Maybe not. Maybe this is just a place where folks come by to visit and chat a while.

But it is not for me to speak for the Forum. I don't own it, I don't manage it and I can't claim to speak on behalf of a person I've not met. And I don't know what the keep in their stationary cabinet.

I do know I'll keep working on my Jet project and see what positive things I can make happen, be it with new bullets or old.

And if there is no organizational voice for the Forum, it seems KKG has nailed it. We need to speak out individually to try and get the things we want. Better bullets would be a good place to start.

 

[toroflow1]

Hey Buff, thanks for posting your exploits with the .22 Jet in a Contender. That was a good read!

 

[moosedog]

It must be my lucky day. I stopped at a very small gun show on the way home and picked up two boxes of Hornady 222 dia Rem Jet bullets for $15.
Here goes what's left of my hearing.

 

[S/W - Lifer]

Way to go, Moosedog. Factory Jet ammo used small rifle primers. Lots of Jet data was put together with pistol primers, which was not the best choice.

Good luck. Let us know how you do.

 

[jrm53]

Buff thanks for saying that some one has down loaded a Jet load. I bet if a guy tinkered with a 53 load with a cast bullet some cobination will give decent results. I have always loaded lighter loads in a 41 and 44 they shot well probably better than I could hold.

 

[EQGuy]

The photo below is taken of some reloaded ammo I was given at the local range. I do not have a clue as to origin of the lead bullets or the maker of the jacketed bullets. I have tried the Hornady Jet bullets and the Sierra .223 Hornet bullets and I have also found some Speer .223 bullets. I have not gotten acceptable accuracy from my reloads as of yet but I will try using small rifle primers next. I am new to Jets having bought my first one a year ago.

 

[perrazi]

don't know about the cast one,but the other one looks like some old herters bullets i have.

 

[M29since14]

The photo below is taken of some reloaded ammo I was given at the local range.

Goes without saying, I suppose, but don't shoot that stuff in your Model 53! Pull it down and save the cases. Don't trust your Jet to anyone's handloads except your own.

 

[S/W - Lifer]

I called Remington's Customer Service (1-800-243-9700, then select option 4) and spoke with Remington rep. Ms. Kiersten King regarding Remington's 40 gr. .222 Jet bullet.

Ms. King was both delightful and patient as I explained that the bullets are no longer available. I asked for a one-time run of Jet bullets so we can load for our revolvers. I also pointed out that Remington is still making Jet brass and so, please, produce a run of Jet bullets.

The deal is Kiersten sends this info up the Remington pipeline for consideration and a rep can contact me by phone for further information.

If any of you folks want Jet bullets it might be a good idea to give Kierston (or whomever) a call at the above number and put in a vote for these bullets. Maybe write a letter if that better suits you. I don't see that speaking up can hurt anything. Maybe we will get lucky.

S/W - Lifer

 

[BUFF]

Ooooohhhhh!!! Talking Jet bullets with a Kiersten! That sounds like a relationship with possibilities!

Lyman's 45th edition used a 6 inch M-53 to generate their data, listed below. They used one 40 grain softpoint Remington and 2 cast bullets.

A Lyman 225107 gas-checked bullet weighing 38 grains used:

Bullseye 2.0/1038 start, 3.5/1418 max.
Unique 3.5/1230 start, 5.5/1663 max.
2400 11.0/1872 start, 12.0/1698 max.
SR 4756 5.0/1285 start, 6.7/1675 max.
IMR 4227 11.0/1742 start, 13.5/2040/max.

Lyman often reported the most accurate load they ran across while developing their data, and for this bullet it was 3.5 Unique/1230 fps.

A Lyman 225438 gas-checked bullet weighing 45 grains used:

Bullseye 2.0/940 start, 3.5/1340 max.
Unique 3.5/1131 start, 5.0/1392 max.
2400 10.5/1745 start, 11.5/1897 max.
SR 4756 5.0/1285 start, 6.7/1675 max.
IMR 4227 11.0/1742 start, 13.5/1992 max.

Accuracy load was IMR 4227 13.0/1992 fps.

The accuracy load for the 40 grain Remington jacketed bullet was IMR 4227 11.0/1575 fps.

For many loads and calibers, they also offered a "factory duplication load." For this bullet, it was 12.0 2400/1937 fps. The Remington factory load clocked at 1937 fps in their Model 53.

While no two guns will probably like the exact same load best, be it factory or handload, I often found that the powders that produced the "accuracy load" in Lyman's test gun shot well in mine.

The Lyman 45th was my first reloading manual. It is a good one, and even though I bought mine in 1974, it's still a good source of information.

 

[S/W - Lifer]

BUFF - Thank you for posting the Lyman data. That info will be very helpful.

Here's some Jet handloading information I've picked up over the years. Maybe it can be useful to someone. FYI, my goal was finding a factory duplication load, not working with reduced loads.

The Jet is a 42,000 psi cartridge. The factory loaded primer is the Remington 6 1/2 small rifle. I expect other small rifle primers will work but I'd definetly start low and gradually work up after changing any loading component when working with the Jet cartridge. This is an intense little cartridge for a revolver and the Remington 6 1/2 rifle primer is needed to allow the cartridge to be loaded to its full potential.

I have no doubt that pistol primers work fine in low to mid-range Jet loads. You just can't duplicate full factory loads using them.

Shifting to powders, I wrote to DuPont and requested a factory duplication load for the Jet. They advised that they could not provide that information because the powder used in the Jet cartridge was a commercial grade not available to handloaders. They recommended IMR-4227 as the powder of choice.

2400 data indicates potential but in testing left too much powder residue in my guns. I have used H-110 with good results. I have no data for Winchester 296. There are safety restrictions with 296 and perhaps H-110 that need to be heeded. I intend to look into the potential of newer powders for loading the Jet.

Brass flow in Jet cases is significant. Cases should be checked before every loading for length and trimmed when needed. A fellow Jet loader told me this and I thought he was overstating the facts. He turned out to be dead on. I do not know if case necks thicken with use and require reaming or the number of loads to be expected from a typical Jet case.

For loading purposes, treat the Jet as a rimmed rifle case as full loads operate at rifle pressures. Rifle pressure loads are hard on revolvers so caution is important. Safe handloading practices and attention to detail are very important with this gun/cartridge combination.

 

[charlies]

I have 34 boxes of 22 Jet Hornady bullets left out of 50 I ratholed years ago when a local store was going out of business. I use them in my Contenders and my 53. I have never had a problem with their accuracy. THe extra 22 inserts I picked up are perfect for use with Contender jet barrel.
Charlie