Jim Cirillo's Service Revolver, the Model 10.

[Checkman]

In his video, Secrets Of A Master Gunfighter, He trained with, and preferred a Glock 20 in 10mm. with an after-market barrel.

From Tales Of The Stakeout Squad:

"Toward the end of his life, Jim had become a Glock man. He used a Glock 20 with custom , extended 10mm barrel as a deer hunting pistol. His preferred carry guns were the Glock 30 .45 ACP compact and the Glock 27 subcompact in .40.....there were days when he carried the old hammer-shrouded Colt .38 too."

Yes that's right. I looked up the articles. He liked the G19. Said it was a good sized frame and fired an adequate load if the shooter made sure they used a good load, but he did not carry the G19.

 

[mc5aw]

There is not much in the world of defensive shooting a well practiced person can not do with a Model 10 - especially with today's ammo available. A 3" - 4" M10 and BB Heavy 38 special +P's is like having a low end .357 Magnum and that is enough for just about any bad guy.

If I am not mistaken, Jim was also a big fan of the .30 M1 carbine when raiding a house or building.

I believe a chopped stock .30 carbine was one of Cirillo's stake-out team guns.

 

[handejector]

If Cirillo had a TH, he must have wanted a TH.
Maybe he did like to shoot some SA. Maybe he wanted to pop a distant pigeon now and then.

When one shoots a gun set up like he wants it to be, it is possible to become as good DA as with SA for most practical shooting. He might still occasionally want to shoot SA for maximum precision. I used to shoot gophers in a garden with a handgun. They were about the size of chipmunks. Even though I was at my peak for DA shooting, I still usually shot them SA because of the target size and distance.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I agree with Lee. NOTHING with respect to his shooting, his guns or his ammo was done at random, by accident or because "the armorer only had a target hammer to replace his broken standard hammer after a New York reload."

 

[policerevolvercollector]

There is another possibility ...

In Cirillo's videos, he describes the handgun grip position he adopted due to his short, thick fingers. Everything he did was deliberate, so it's not inconceivable that a target hammer simply worked better on that particular revolver due to his hand/finger size.

+1

I carry a Glock 33 everyday as a backup at work & off duty. It functions exactly like my issued Glock 22 does. It simply works for me. You may be devoted to the 1911 or S&Ws etc. etc. That's A-OK too! When we find what works for each of us,we should stick to it like Mr. Cirillo did. After reading his books, I believe that he tried different things until he found the right configuration. Nothing more scientific (or accidental) than that......

 

[Malpasowildlifer]

IMHO, no gun is perfect for everyone and agencies should provide options or allow personally owned firearms.

Still gotta read Cirillo's book!

 

[RichCapeCod]

I knew Jim after we'd both retired from the NYPD. I'd find it unusual for Jim to put a target hammer on a ''serious'' Handgun. The S&W revolver can be fired more accurately double-action than when using the SA mode.

A million years ago, when firing my 10 slow/timed/rapid fire, even when firing slow fire only DA was used. Yeah, takes some practice and development of muscle memory but that's how it was done.

The hammer pictured below is on my service model 10. Never use it (decoration, I guess!). Note the smoothing of the ''teeth'' on the hammer? Saved on clothes.

 

[WR Moore]

Couple of comments- I don't know about the use of a target hammer, but if you're using a service type holster, most of them require a hammer spur to retain the weapon (particularly in ye days of olde). The second comment is that a hammer spur comes in very handy in the case of a high primer or other minor interference that might prevent a DA stroke from turning the cylinder. A hearty yank on the hammer spur can rotate the cylinder and allow the shot a heck of a lot faster than a NY reload.

Back in the day, I needed to do that during a qualification after a cratered primer hung the cylinder up. We figured that out after the stage was over-there weren't any alibis in our qualifications.

 

[RichCapeCod]

As I mentioned I first really spoke with Jim when we were both retired from the dept. (I became chief of police in Wellfleet MA PD). We traded books (I've published a few as did Jim). He was very gracious and put this very nice comment in the book he sent to me (Guns, Bullets and Gunfights).

If anyone cares I just put out another one, Practical Handgun Training:

photography, Framed in Wellfleet Welllfleet, MA Books for Sale

 

[hotrod150]

.......The S&W revolver can be fired more accurately double-action than when using the SA mode........

I question this statement. I will agree that it can be just as accurate in DA as in SA for some shooters (unfortunately not including me), but MORE accurate?

 

[RichCapeCod]

I question this statement. I will agree that it can be just as accurate in DA as in SA for some shooters (unfortunately not including me), but MORE accurate?

Yup. That's been my experience. And all of the firearms instructors at the Outdoor Range at Rodman's Neck (those that were shooters at any rate) also seemed to be of the same opinion. I watched guys, shooting their model 29s, at a silhouette match plunking their big .44 slugs into the metal targets at god-knows what distance (I forget now...), all DA.

The S&W K-frame and larger revolvers have wonderful triggers for DA work. While Colt did make some nice handguns I found their DA to be "stagey." I attribute that to their "V" main spring.

With the S&W, at least for me, I find it best to take up most of the slack on the DA pull and then make sure my sights are aligned for that last little bit of pull remaining.

Rich

 

[BigBoku]

Jim, was always a gentleman, I was lucky enough to spend many occassions with him as well as Bill Allard at Rodmans Neck, I still see Bill occasionally when he stops in to visit the Range, both are and were Gentleman and true "Cops"with a wealth of real world experience and knowledge.

Here is a quote from one of Bills encounters that was written about.

" Bill emptied his Ithaca 12-gauge shotgun into a pair of heavily armed gunmen, only to find both of them still up and running after a total of five solid 00 buckshot hits. Transitioning to his S&W Model 10 service revolver, he pumped three .38 Special bullets into each man's chest. By that point, both gunmen were down, but one was still trying to shoot him from the floor with an auto-loading carbine. Bill dropped his empty .38 and drew his specially authorized backup, a 1911 .45, and put seven rounds into the last gunman's torso and the eighth into his head. Reloading from slide-lock, he realized at last that the gun battle was over and both of his antagonists were dead."

Bill was gracious enough to allow me to try out that Colt 1911 National Match as he still carries it, the last time I was with Jim he had his Glock 27.

P.S. that "Oldflatfoot" guy below that liked my post may know a thing or two or three about those NYPD
days too.

 

[LOBO]

Bill Allard interview comes in around 22:00,

010 Save The Blue Trail Range and a Conversation with Bill Allard « The ProArms Podcast

 

[J. W.]

Was it Cirrillo who wrote that he wrapped his grips with electrician's tape -- the high grade stuff that doesn't leave your hands black -- to fit them to his hand? That was an early days PPC method.

As I recall the story, he imagined unknowing onlookers as thinking something like, "Look at the dumb cop who wrapped his broken grips with tape."

My grandfather has the grips of his old service revolver (6" Colt Official Police) wrapped in friction tape. I can recall as a kid asking why he did that. It looked horrible and would make your hands sticky.

Now that I'm grown and a copper myself I fully realize the benefit of what he did. Pretty forward thinking for a lawman of the area before rubber grip sleeves and "tacti-cool" gadgets.


Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
During my career I observed a number of target hammer bent from dropping. Most of the spurs would bend straight up, but a few bent down rending the revolver unable to fire.

 

[RichCapeCod]

Hi:
During my career I observed a number of target hammer bent from dropping. Most of the spurs would bend straight up, but a few bent down rending the revolver unable to fire.

I remember bent hammer spurs being "bobbed" and trimmed by dept gunsmiths for just that reason!

Rich

 

[BE Mike]

I really enjoy following this thread, especially the comments by those who were close to Jim Cirillo. I was fortunate to have had some contact with Mr. Cirillo in the mid-80's when I was detailed to FLETC for several months as a firearms instructor for my agency. One of the big benefits to me, of which there were many, were being able to hear first accounts of gun battles from the participants, including Mr. Cirillo. I was also privy to read about other encounters from official files. These were great lessons. I can't add anything about the Cirillo model 10 specifically. I do remember that when I was rubbing shoulders with Mr. Cirillo, he was a big fan of the CZ 75. I also remember some accounts of the NYC stakeout squad. IIRC, he told of an account of an armed robbery and the stakeout squad's primary weapon was the Ithaca model 37 in 12 gauge, loaded with slugs.