K-22 1st Model question.

jphendren

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How rare are the K-22 Outdoorsman's with the hump back hammer feature? I know that 19,500 K-22 1st models were made from 1931-1940 and that the hump back hammer did not come about until 1938, at least on the N-frame guns. So that means that only the last two years could have this feature. I am going to a gunshow this weekend looking for one, are my chances pretty slim? What is the fair price range for one of these? Also, what type of sight options were available on these? The "Standard Catalog of S&W" states partridge front sight, is that the type of front sight that is factory?

Jared
 
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How rare are the K-22 Outdoorsman's with the hump back hammer feature? I know that 19,500 K-22 1st models were made from 1931-1940 and that the hump back hammer did not come about until 1938, at least on the N-frame guns. So that means that only the last two years could have this feature. I am going to a gunshow this weekend looking for one, are my chances pretty slim? What is the fair price range for one of these? Also, what type of sight options were available on these? The "Standard Catalog of S&W" states partridge front sight, is that the type of front sight that is factory?

Jared
 
Jared these things are out there but they are super rare for a couple reasons.

1) They didn't make very many, this alone makes them tough to find.

2) Many of the ones that have surfaced get snatched up by collectors so the ones you see will be on the high end S&W dealers tables and priced accordingly.
 
We're still learning. As to exact numbers, we'll never know. I've got 3 of them, and an extra hammer. BruceHMX sold one recently in the classifieds. I've seen and heard about a few more. While there are guns with the hammer down in the 667,000s range, I don't know if they letter like that or if the hammer was an aftermarket addition. My 3 have serials in the 673-4,000s. I do know that K22s in the 670s are much more frequently seen with standard hammers. I've not seen one above 680,000 with a HBH. Also remember that the serial number sequence was shared with M&Ps.

If someone suggested that 500 were made, I wouldn't argue much. I seriously doubt that 1,000 were made. It also wouldn't suprise me to learn only 250-300 were produced. And I'm only shooting from the hip based on the K22s I've seen.

I do know that spare HBH were produced and never installed on guns. Hugh May used to tell a story about him finding and buying 3 variations in a single box. That included 2 Ns and a K frame mounted style hammer. He didn't include the K as used on M&P targets. Those are even harder to locate.

I believe that Dave/Merlindb picked up the K32 that was offered up a while back. There was no confirmation that it shipped with its HBH, but no way of proving it either way. If my memory is correct the seller went to great lengths to get Roy to letter it like that and he refused.

I put in that last to get anyone wandering shows to keep an eye open for M&P or M&P targets that might have the feature. Its worth picking one up if cheap enough.

Recent sales seem to support the idea that any prewar gun in collector condition with a HBH is worth $1000 or more.

As for front sights, anything goes. S&W in that time period would install anything a customer wanted. Just as frequently, customers had the front sights changed to ones they liked better or wanted to try. Don't reject an otherwise good deal because you think the front sight doesn't comply with SCSW. They'll be the first to tell you that variations do exist. The proper way to read Jims book is as a general guide, not as a bible without exceptions. It wasn't intended to be used that way.

And in all this, don't ever forget to inspect the gun for signs of alterations like signs of pins having been pushed out, etc. Wear and tear on the parts should seem equal.
 
Sounds like I have my work cut out for me, if only approx. 500 or less were made. I was hoping for more, but my instincts were telling different. I've been keeping my eye on the major gun auction websites and have seen only one, I guess I should have grabbed it when I had the chance.

Jared
 
Yes, DC is David.

I've never seen or heard of a HBH on a 2nd. Worse, I don't think they exist since the 2nd is a short action gun and all the HBH I'm familiar with are long action, both K and N.
 
I know that this is subjective, but is $1,500 a fair price for one of these that is 98% original with numbered stocks? I'm considering picking it up, but that sounds steep to me for a K-22. Will I be able to get my money back in the future.

Jared
 
Originally posted by rburg:

Recent sales seem to support the idea that any prewar gun in collector condition with a HBH is worth $1000 or more.

I doubt if the advice can get any better than that. If you back off on the HBH requirement, and some %s on the condition, you can, as I am sure you know, buy a K-22 Outdoorsman for a lot less...
 
How old are you?

What does that mean
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The reason for my question is that these are so scarce that it is hard to find examples that have sold, thus it is difficult to gauge the current market price.

Onomea, I have considered forgetting about the HBH and just going with a nice 90-95% K-22. I've seen them as low as $500 or so, which is a pretty decent price.

Jared
 
I think the age question should have had a
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next to it, but you can almost always get your money back, given enough time....

And thats the point of the age thing. No one can ever give you a rock solid guarantee that you'll get your money back. It just doesn't work that way.

Paying $1500 for a perfect gun is probably still a pretty agressive approach. I'm not sure that the market is that high yet. While history has shown that low production prewar guns have been appreciating much faster than other guns, it will probably take a year or more for the general market to reach that point.

But then consider that if you've found one at that price, you might not find another in that time frame. I'm not selling mine. And you may end up spending that much or more for the next one on the market, and also the expenses of looking for one. I've kicked my self many times for passing on a gun that I felt was overpriced. The next one cost me significantly more and often wasn't as good.

If you're looking at one from a reputable seller that stands behind his goods, it might be a fair price. I'd think twice before passing on it.
 
Thanks for the information guys. The seller is David Carroll, I've heard he's reputable. He told me that the gun looks nearly like new, approx. 98% original finish, it has its original stocks, and a hump back hammer. He said the only major blemish is a turn ring on the cylinder. It does not include any of its accessories though. It's probably too nice of a gun for my purposes, as I would like to shoot it. I don't intend to sell any of my pre-war Smith's, but it is nice to know that if I had to I wouldn't lose my shorts on the deal. To me a 90-95% gun looks pretty, so a 98% gun is probably overkill seeing as how I will shoot it. I hopefully will see this gun on Friday and will make the call then.

BTW, I'm 29, so I have a few years left before I sell my guns
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Jared
 
They don't come cheap, at leaste not to me. The one with the white lettering is as near 100% as possible and has a pretty nice box.
The other one is maybe 98% consevatively. I paid $750, which is less then half of the boxed one!
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I have no qualms about shooting the lesser condition gun.
Emory
 
Thanks Joe, but the sun came out here today. It was a welcome respite after a long cold wet winter.
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Besides which, I can't shoot the other one.
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Hows things with you and your new HD?
Emory
 
crofoot629,

Very nice pieces you have there. Box ain't too shabby either.

Do those have the hump back hammer?

I have a K22 Outdoorsman S/N63608x (1936+/-) with a hammer that looks like yours.

Or do the K22 O'man with HBH look like the ones on the .38/44 O'man with HBH which I have?

They look similar but not identical.

Jolly
 
JB,
I suppose I'd know what a HBH was if I had one.
I've seen some posts and pics here, but I'm not real expert on the subject.

I also suppose an even greater portion of my meager finances would have been extracted by the sellers if they had been HBH's. That is how I know for sure they are not.
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Emory
 
Dick,
I've never seen or heard of a HBH on a 2nd. Worse, I don't think they exist since the 2nd is a short action gun and all the HBH I'm familiar with are long action, both K and N.
Right. I've had several 1940 and 41 catalogs in the last year. Interseting to see the variations as they added the Masterpiece (K-22 Second).
ANYWAY- you are right. The catalog which first showed the 2nd had a Bright colored strip glued to the page which stated the HBH was NOT available on the 2nd, as it's increased leverage was not necessary with the new short action.
Lee J
 

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