Emory,
I'm loving it. Just waiting for my El Paso Saddlry holster for it.
Joe
I'm loving it. Just waiting for my El Paso Saddlry holster for it.
Joe
K-22 1st Model question.
- Thread starter jphendren
- Start date
rburg
Member
Hey Crofoot, thats a nice box! (I don't normally say that to other guys.) As for the gun, you should probably give consideration to scrubbing out the white lettering. While it does make the lettering stand out, its certainly not factory. Its just something guys used to do on winter evenings to amuse themselves. It tends to detract from the value of an otherwise great gun. But its yours and you can do as you please.
An impressive picture!
An impressive picture!
Crofoot, those are awesome! I didn't know S&W was still making them, they are brand new right?
No they do not have the hump back hammer, they are the standard hammer. Here is a link to a Gunsamerica ad of a K-22 with a hump back hammer if anyone is interested.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976711875.htm
Jared
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976711875.htm
Jared
Thanks, Jared.
Can someone post enlarged pix of the two hammers, humpback hammer and standard hammer, side by side? I think I know the difference and can tell, but it would be educational to see them in a side-by-side comparison.
Can someone post enlarged pix of the two hammers, humpback hammer and standard hammer, side by side? I think I know the difference and can tell, but it would be educational to see them in a side-by-side comparison.
rburg
Member
Well, I don't post pictures any more.
But there are plenty of them here and down in the classifieds.
Basically the standard hammer spur stands up, as seen in the photos within this thread. We've all become used to them and they're pretty functional. But back in the late 1930s, S&W introduced a short lived modification. Instead of standing up, someone modified the spur to lay down an back. What that resulted in was a less pleasing contour to view, but one that was much more functional.
Understand that for double action shooting, it makes no difference. But for single action cocking, the hammer just lies where your thumb wants it to be. One of the more interesting things to watch is someone who is a shooter with significant experience the first time they cock a gun with a HBH. They get this startled expression on their face, followed by a sly smile. Then some confusion. Thats because they wondered why its taken so long to discover something so simple and obvious.
Better still, watch their efforts to obtain a gun so equipped. Guns with this feature are pretty scarce. I think Roy came up with numbers of Registered Magnums sold with the feature. Something like 25% of those sold had it after it was introduced. But thats maybe a thousand guns or so. Survivorship isn't that many. And there were a few K22s, even fewer M&Ps (I've never seen one except targets), and reportedly MerlinDBs K32. There are a few notable 38/44s with it, mostly outdoorsman but a few known HDs. And then a handful of 44 3rds, notably DCs old duty gun/smokestack. Also some modified with the HBH added in. Surely not very many.
If you want one, the most common place to find them is KC magnums. Even though they letter with standard hammers, almost all have HBH. No one we know can tell you if those were just built that way and not listed on shipping documents or put on them during a subsequent refinish. Don't know why the factory would exchange that many hammers. Surely nothing was wrong with that many originals. If anyone has an answer, they'd do the collectors community a great service.
But there are plenty of them here and down in the classifieds.
Basically the standard hammer spur stands up, as seen in the photos within this thread. We've all become used to them and they're pretty functional. But back in the late 1930s, S&W introduced a short lived modification. Instead of standing up, someone modified the spur to lay down an back. What that resulted in was a less pleasing contour to view, but one that was much more functional.
Understand that for double action shooting, it makes no difference. But for single action cocking, the hammer just lies where your thumb wants it to be. One of the more interesting things to watch is someone who is a shooter with significant experience the first time they cock a gun with a HBH. They get this startled expression on their face, followed by a sly smile. Then some confusion. Thats because they wondered why its taken so long to discover something so simple and obvious.
Better still, watch their efforts to obtain a gun so equipped. Guns with this feature are pretty scarce. I think Roy came up with numbers of Registered Magnums sold with the feature. Something like 25% of those sold had it after it was introduced. But thats maybe a thousand guns or so. Survivorship isn't that many. And there were a few K22s, even fewer M&Ps (I've never seen one except targets), and reportedly MerlinDBs K32. There are a few notable 38/44s with it, mostly outdoorsman but a few known HDs. And then a handful of 44 3rds, notably DCs old duty gun/smokestack. Also some modified with the HBH added in. Surely not very many.
If you want one, the most common place to find them is KC magnums. Even though they letter with standard hammers, almost all have HBH. No one we know can tell you if those were just built that way and not listed on shipping documents or put on them during a subsequent refinish. Don't know why the factory would exchange that many hammers. Surely nothing was wrong with that many originals. If anyone has an answer, they'd do the collectors community a great service.
Thread resurrection. Regarding earliness of HBH on K-22 Outdoorsman model. I am getting one lettered with a 647xxx number (1934 or 35) that has one on it but it came from an old target shooter as it had magnas on it and they didn't make them when this gun was produced so it could be a composite. However, in looking over Joe Miller's files there are guns there that are listed as having Humpback Hammers around and before that period and one showing being shipped in 1936 with one. Do the catalogs or factory have a definitive date when this option was available for the first time? And if the one I wrote about ends up not having that hammer originally, what the heck am I going to do with a spare one when I restore the gun to originality?
Ed
Ed
Arlo
Here is an old picture of the two hammer types:
Later, Mike Priwer
Here is an old picture of the two hammer types:
Later, Mike Priwer
rburg
Member
Mike, thats an interesting picture, and while it does show the differences very nicely, it also kind of distorts the angles.
What I did when I first saw it a few minutes ago was I picked up a business card lying on my desk and laid it along the front surface of the hammer, where it contacts the frame in the fired position. I hope that makes sense. What you see is that the HBH on the left is really cocked forward in the picture more than the standard hammer.
What that results in is the HBH lying lower on the frame and hence lower and closer to your thumb than the standard one. I don't have a protractor, but I'd guess that the HBH is maybe 15 or so degrees from the vertical, while the standard hammer is only maybe 3-5 degrees.
I know that wasn't what your picture was trying to show, and it does a good job if viewed as intended. But the other difference between them is the angle and height of the spur from your thumb as you'd be cocking it from the fired position.
I sure hope that rambling made sense to someone else!
What I did when I first saw it a few minutes ago was I picked up a business card lying on my desk and laid it along the front surface of the hammer, where it contacts the frame in the fired position. I hope that makes sense. What you see is that the HBH on the left is really cocked forward in the picture more than the standard hammer.
What that results in is the HBH lying lower on the frame and hence lower and closer to your thumb than the standard one. I don't have a protractor, but I'd guess that the HBH is maybe 15 or so degrees from the vertical, while the standard hammer is only maybe 3-5 degrees.
I know that wasn't what your picture was trying to show, and it does a good job if viewed as intended. But the other difference between them is the angle and height of the spur from your thumb as you'd be cocking it from the fired position.
I sure hope that rambling made sense to someone else!
Dick
This picture was taken by someone else, and posted here several months
ago. I added the comments, for clarity !
I've always wondered why they called it a humpback. It feels that way
to the thumb, relative to the standard hammer. But - there is no
hump - what there is, is a lack of the depression, that ones thumb
tends to fall into !
Later, Mike Priwer
This picture was taken by someone else, and posted here several months
ago. I added the comments, for clarity !
I've always wondered why they called it a humpback. It feels that way
to the thumb, relative to the standard hammer. But - there is no
hump - what there is, is a lack of the depression, that ones thumb
tends to fall into !
Later, Mike Priwer
Thanks, guys for the discussion and pic of the differences.
I have always known patience to be a virtue, and to see my question answered 14 months after it was posed reinforces this belief.
(Meanwhile, I am fortunate to have my own first gun with an HBH wending its way to me at this time, about which: More later...
)
I have always known patience to be a virtue, and to see my question answered 14 months after it was posed reinforces this belief.
(Meanwhile, I am fortunate to have my own first gun with an HBH wending its way to me at this time, about which: More later...
BruceHMX
Member
Jared good luck on your quest. I wish I had known you wanted one of these. I would have gladly sold it to you. It was sold quite reasonable.
In the mean time I would sit and wait. I know this is hard to do. I would pick up a pre war without humpback and shoot it. These are fun guns. I sold the humpback for the same reason you quoted. I found myself wanting to shoot it more and more. It was a 98% gun. The more I shot it the more I worried about something happening to it. Hence I sold it and I now have a 95% pre war non humpback I shoot all the time. Call it foolish by some but I could not justify shooting that beauty constantly. Not in years would you ever wear it out. Hell I should have kept it and continued shooting it.
Lessons learned.
In the mean time I would sit and wait. I know this is hard to do. I would pick up a pre war without humpback and shoot it. These are fun guns. I sold the humpback for the same reason you quoted. I found myself wanting to shoot it more and more. It was a 98% gun. The more I shot it the more I worried about something happening to it. Hence I sold it and I now have a 95% pre war non humpback I shoot all the time. Call it foolish by some but I could not justify shooting that beauty constantly. Not in years would you ever wear it out. Hell I should have kept it and continued shooting it.
Lessons learned.
Very interesting thread! Thanks for resurrecting it. I've been looking for an Outdoorsman too. It seems the ones I have seen have been beaters or very nice. I may have to pony up for a nice one and not worry about shooting it.
handejector
Staff member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
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There is an Engineering Order dated Sept 1, 1937, to make dies and fixtures for the 38 HE and 44 HE Humpback Hammers.Originally posted by smith17:
Thread resurrection. Regarding earliness of HBH on K-22 Outdoorsman model. I am getting one lettered with a 647xxx number (1934 or 35) that has one on it but it came from an old target shooter as it had magnas on it and they didn't make them when this gun was produced so it could be a composite. However, in looking over Joe Miller's files there are guns there that are listed as having Humpback Hammers around and before that period and one showing being shipped in 1936 with one. Do the catalogs or factory have a definitive date when this option was available for the first time? And if the one I wrote about ends up not having that hammer originally, what the heck am I going to do with a spare one when I restore the gun to originality?
Ed
I think the K-22 MIGHT have had the Humpback first, but it would probably NOT predate this order by much more than a year, maybe less.
Some versions of the 85th Anniversary catalog of 1936 show the Humpback Hammer.
Re-resurrection. I tagged onto this thread a couple of months ago and got a letter on the K22 Outdoorsman that I found with a HBH and prewar magnas. Turns out neither was original to the gun. How much bad luck can one stand? But I got a surprise when the original owner of #647910 turned out to be the St. Petersburg (FL)Police Department, taking possession of a gun shipped on Jan. 18, 1935. I had been told it came from a competitive shooter who had modified it to his shooting style. You never know.
Ed
Ed
Rare guns usually don't seem to cluster around any one location do they?
It's more modern, a 36-6 3" full lug barrel. Only 615 made, but I know of 4 of them within one small vicinity, (town of 40,000).
Would be curious to know if this is unusual or not unusual.
It's more modern, a 36-6 3" full lug barrel. Only 615 made, but I know of 4 of them within one small vicinity, (town of 40,000).
Would be curious to know if this is unusual or not unusual.
CJ
Member
Lots of interesting information and speculation that's about to drop off the forum due to age.
I'll keep it alive for another 12 months with a well-used March 1940 specimen that letters with the Magnas and Humpback Hammer.
Anyone else????
I'll keep it alive for another 12 months with a well-used March 1940 specimen that letters with the Magnas and Humpback Hammer.
Anyone else????
Memphis
Member
I'll play... Here's mine... I quickly took these about 10 mins ago before my little man and I head out to ride bikes. Sorry for the lack of picture skills. It's a work in progress.
Roger
Roger
Pontiaker
Member
If anyone is interested I just saw one for sale on GunsAmerica with the HBH but the price at $1100 seemed a little high for the condition the gun was in?
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