K frame magnum life?

[Nframe357]

I just got a 19-5 that appears to have been fired little, I've read all of the myths about split forcing cones etc. My question to all you fine folks is,have any of you actually damaged your K frame mags by shooting 357 loads? If so approximate round count please,thanks!

 

[Nframe357]

I just got a 19-5 that appears to have been fired little, I've read all of the myths about split forcing cones etc. My question to all you fine folks is,have any of you actually damaged your K frame mags by shooting 357 loads? If so approximate round count please,thanks!

 

[dcb]

well every thing has a life! I have a 66 that has quite a few loads, thousands of 357. mostly hand loads. a lot of 38spcl +P with out any signs of barrel or cone deteriation.
When i got it it was used. I really dont see where you could go wrong. i think most of the barrel problems came from shooting hot loads, light bullets?
the barrels can be replace as long as the frame it good.

 

[Red Tex]

I have a pair of Model 13 .357s with 4" barrels. If you stick with heavier bullets, I think these k-frames will last a lifetime wtih normal care. They have troubles with hot magnum loads firing light (<140gr) bullets. Something about the way these bullets leave the chamber causes forcing cone damage and flame cutting. I generally fire 158gr loads and I've never had a problem.

 

[baxtereyes]

I have the first Model 66 4 inch to be sold in Athens, Georgia whatever year that model was introduced.

I carried it on duty for several years and fired it frequently. It replaced a 4" Model 28. I fired some .357 but our issue load was, as I recall, a 125 grain fairly hot 38 spl. What would now be considered a +P load.

I have never had a minutes trouble with it. It shows no sign of wear on the cone. I would suspect that ware would be a result of gas cutting.

As I recall the K frame .357 was conceived to be easy to carry compared to the N frame but was to digest a smaller volume of .357.

I would expect that if you treat your 19 with the respect that it deserves. I will last you for a long, long time.

My Humble Southern Opinion.

Ric

 

[gary ray]

I bought my 4" 19 new in 1979, and fired about 3 to 4K 'moderate' 357 125g rounds. Almost all were reloads and i was using Greendot back then. I can't quite recall the charge, but i know it was below max.

Anyhoo, that was enough to cause a lot of end-play, which i fixed for, oh i don't know, $85 by shimming. That, of course, moves the tolerance to the cylinder gap, which is now fairly large.

No forcing cone split, but the cone is clearly worn.

Bottom line to me: yah, there is a reason S&W developed the 686. One thing even older shooters like me tend to forget is that the cost of ammo -- whether reloaded yourself or from commercial sources -- has actually dropped a great deal over the decades (last few years notwithstanding!) after inflation. So we shoot a lot more, actually, and do so with full power ammo.

I've read that S&W updated the K frame in the 90s and largely fixed these weaknesses. Ah dunno how the 66 metallurgy fairs in this respect either.

-- gary ray

 

[dant]

I can relate that back when we had the shops, there were about 6 model 19s we had to send back, 3 for "rebuild" ( cops guns) around 10,000 rounds of "factory" magnum ammo, NO 'hot 'reloads' ...yes, two guns less than 1,ooo rounds "hot 'stuff, cracked ( split barrel below the forcing cones, and 1 gun , again, the barrel had to be replaced, eroded very badly...all 'cops guns, and all fixed for 'n/c' but last we checked there are NO longer any model 19 barrels available...we been trying to find a couple for a local shop that has two 19s , with 'split barrels, bottom of the forcing cone......found one "used" barrel down in southern Ohio ( Phil S.) the parts guy had it and most likely will use some other model barrel for the other...............the model 19 I had for years and carried ,but shot mostly reloads/target ammo, except on duty, had many thousands of rounds through it and NEVER did anything, looked like 'new' when I finally traded it off.....( I did have it 'Metalifed SS' finish by Ron Mahovsky back in the mid 70s, that may have "helped" it???

 

[18DAI]

No, thirty-eight years of carrying and shooting model 19's, and never destroyed one yet.

I'm down to four of them and a half dozen 66's. All shoot fine. Regards 18DAI.

 

[Chris K]

They are not myths------but if you avoid the 125 grain magnum loads you should not have a problem.

 

[sw44spl]

do like me and just shoot 158 lead swc's mainly and you have no problem.I bet in the past 10 years Ive fired about 400 HPs

 

[SJshooter]

You do not have to search this forum very much to find that 125-grain magnums can crack the forcing cone with a single round. It's a rare event, but not so rare that S&W didn't design an entirely new gun frame to address the problem.

Lots of folks will report that they've fired 125-grainers from their K-frames with no damage at all. And some will report about the one time they pulled the trigger and the forcing cone gave up. Bottom line: it can happen and they aren't making new K-357s to replace it with. Fire magnum rounds lighter than 158-grain at your own risk.

PS this should be a sticky post in the forum - I think a new thread on this topic is started every week.

 

[Nframe357]

Thanks for info guys, I reload mainly mid range loads in mag cases and shoot but few hot loads to clean out the lead from the lighter loads. It's not a primary defense gun, just a fun gun for the range etc. I've always been mainly an N frame guy hence my question, we've all read the stories I just wanted to see if it actually happened to anyone or if they were just stories.

 

[ncbengal]

Advice please

Boy, am I glad I found this thread!!! I, too, found a mint condition K frame .357, mod 19-4, #35K2xxx and it followed me home. I have put only .38s thru it, some storebought, mostly 158 gr lead w/c's, and quite a few of my own moderate loads of 158gr lead swc from Berry and Magnus. It performs beautifully in every respect. I emailed S&W and they gave me a mfg date of '78-'79, and recommended it okay for .357s but advised against using rounds marked "+P" or "+P+".
I cannot find anything wrong with either cylinder or barrel, but I am not familiar with "forcing cone". I can see where the cyl. necks down from case size to bullet size. Is this it, or is forcing cone part of the barrel?
I would load some "+P" rounds since the pressure tables are only moderately higher than standard .38, and about half what full loads of .357 mags show in loading tables. But I think I will hold off for now and wait for some experts to come back. THANKS, GUYS!!!!

 

[flagman1776]

The forcing cone is the tapered section inside the barrel closest to the cylinder. It is where the bullet meets the rifling for the first time.

.38 Special +P is lower pressure than .357 Mag.

Gary Ray... The S&W SC set my M19 barrel back a thread, Recut the forcing cone years ago. If your barrel cylinder gap becomes excessive, that should still be an option.
Russ

 

[kenpofan]

The # of K frame magnums destroyed by flame cutting is portrayed far in excess of the internet myth.
Can you flame cut a K frame? ..Yes
But the same is true of charter,colt or ruger revolvers.
IMHO ,and experiance, (19-5,66-4 and 66-5) you keep them clean and shoot quality reloads or factory ammo and that weapon will be enjoyed by your grand kids.

Patrick

 

[John Sobieski]

Magnum Only Ammunition

I would load some "+P" rounds since the pressure tables are only moderately higher than standard .38, and about half what full loads of .357 mags show in loading tables. But I think I will hold off for now and wait for some experts to come back. THANKS, GUYS!!!!

I don't want you to worry about shooting your Model 19. They are great guns and you should enjoy it. Like any machine, it will wear out or break eventually if you use it. I think it is likely that if you use .38 Special ammunition, including +P, your Model 19 will last longer than if you use Magnum ammunition.

Here is a link to an article on Model 19 longevity I found interesting: Use of Magnum Loads in S&W Model 19 and Other K-Frame Magnums

The forcing cone on my Model 19 split at the 6 o'clock position while firing 158gr. JHP .357 Magnum ammunition. I only fired Magnum ammunition in the revolver, and fired at least 100 rounds of 125gr. jacketed Magnum ammunition a week most weeks for about a year. Following the theory that 125gr. ammunition was harder on guns than 158gr. loads, I switched. The Model 19 wore out despite the change from 125gr. to 158gr. I don't have an exact count, but I estimate that I fired several thousand .357 Magnum-level rounds through my pistol before it failed. Keep in mind that I bought it used, so I have no idea how many rounds it had fired before I started shooting it.

If you compare your K-frame Model 19 to an L-frame gun, you'll notice that the forcing cone has a flat surface at the 6 o'clock position on your Model 19 that is absent on the L-frame gun. This flat is necessary on the K-frame to allow the cylinder/ejector rod to close. Without the flat, you couldn't close the cylinder. This flat at 6 o'clock is where my revolver's forcing cone split, and I believe this is the common failure point for Model 19 forcing cones. In contrast, the slightly larger L-frame doesn't have this flat; the L-frame is large enough that the cylinder can close without the need for the relief cut on the forcing cones.

I paid less than $300 for my used Model 19; I spent more money on the ammunition I fired through the gun. Unless you are a collector, guns and ammunition are consumable items.

I had no issues with or concerns about flame cutting of the top strap.

 

[ncbengal]

For John Sobieski

John, thanks for the info and link. That is a wonderful article, and I recommend for anyone with concerns about their Mod 19. To repeat an earlier post, I asked S & W about do's and don'ts with the Mod 19, and the reply was "it is rated for .357, so use it." At the same time, I'm going to give that pretty puppy a good cleaning a good cleaning after every outing and keep it in great shape. Dick

 

[ljmvaw124]

I have a 4" 19-4 purchased new in 1978 - I've averaged 200 rounds a month since then - mostly 158 grain loads, but at least a box of 125 grain loads (remember Hydra-Shoks ?) each month. Lots of 38 wc loads, but the vast majority has been .357 loads. It still locks up tight, and shoots great - even if I do have my eye on nice used 586 ........
Shoot it, and enjoy it !

 

[fyimo]

Like SJshooter said all the posts I have read have stated the problem occurs when shooting 125 grain magnum loadsn and not the heavier 158 grain loads.