Kinetic hammer/Inertia bullet puller kaboom theories???

[Maximumbob54]

From another thread that I did not wish to further derail there was talk that a kinetic hammer or inertia bullet puller (whatever you prefer to call them) combined with the use of a shell holder instead of the rubber band held collet may cause a kaboom.



I'm at a loss. The one and only reason I can see this happening is if your primer isn't seated all the way and you try to use the shell holder. I can see if the primer hits the shell holder off center hard enough then it could ignite. That's pretty much the only way I can see this happening.

My issue is I can see no other way of a kaboom besides a high or unseated primer. Crimped primer pocket cases often don't allow a primer to fully seat and I'm seeing more and more crimped primer pockets on store bought factory ammo. I've read that the newer "green" primers are bad about backing out thus they are crimping them in place. True or not either way there is a lot of crimped primer pockets these days.

So how else could this be possible??? You would have to have one sloppy fitting case in the shell holder to have enough room to move around so that a primer could have a chance of hitting something to set it off. What am I still not seeing???

 

[Autococker07]

I have also been wondering this, and while all of my pullers have had the oring/collett setup, i still cannot imagine one going off, unless it was just dumb luck of a too deeply set anvil or something being affected by vibration.....

Primers are actually pretty tough, and made to resist detonation other than a dent above the anvil.... now I know anything is possible, and I know others here have reloaded much longer than I, but in 23 years I have yet to have an accidental discharge of a primer.... maybe I am just lucky....

I will be eagerly watching this thread to see what more experianced guys have to say!!!

 

[Engineer1911]

Support for your position

My vote is for "Internet Rumor" or "Unfounded Fear of the Impossible". A primer fires when the primer cup is driven into the anvil by the firing pin, but the anvil has to be against the bottom of the primer cup. Static electricity at/on the reloading bench is a very remote posibility.

A high primer does not have the anvil bottomed out in the primer pocket -- ignition failure. An inverted primer might have the anvil driven into the primer cup by a shell holder because the primer cup cannot move in the primer pocket because of friction -- possible ignition, but it's noise only no powder.

An inverted primer can be safely and easily 'decapped' because nothing is holding the anvil against the priming compound. There is nothing restraing the anvil in this situation.

A primer fires when the firing pin impacts the primer cup against the raised center of the anvil. A firing pin may strike a primer off-center, but some portion of the primer cup firing pin dent must hit the "point" of the anvil. (Just look at a hundred semi-auto pieces of range brass and see how many firing pin impacts are "in the center", further proof that 'close enough' works almost every time -- 99.9999% .)

So think about this statement: A vehicle's pressure on the road is EXACTLY equal to the tire air pressure. Doesn't make any difference if tire pressure is 5 psi (off road equipment, rubber tired lawn mowers) or 110 psi (heavy load trucks) .

 

[Neumann]

It takes very little energy to set off a primer, especially if something acts to compress the shell and anvil directly. A high primer in a kinetic bullet puller may first dislodge the anvil, then on repeated blows cause the shell to move and crush the primer material.

It's never happened to me, but it seems plausible, and the consequences could cause serious injuries.

The simple collets held with an o-ring are an inexpensive way to make adaptive shell holders. I see no problem using ordinary shell holders if they fit without rattling around. A kinetic puller exerts a lot less shock on the bullet and primer than recoil in a magazine or slamming the cartridge into battery position.

A collet puller that fits in a press is a lot faster and quieter, and works well on everything except soft lead bullets (if you can find a collet to fit). Furthermore, you can recover the powder if you are absolutely certain as to its composition and batch. It's amazing how quickly you can load 100 rounds with the wrong component in a progressive press. With .308, that's half a pound of powder.

Here's another alternative worth looking at...
Grip-n-Pull The World's Best Bullet Puller

 

[Nevada Ed]

Been taking rifle and pistol loads apart since 1968 with...
"the Hammer" type puller.
Broke one , on the second one.......(don't use metal or cement)

Yes a crimp on a cannelure is the pits but even with the added plows, I have never had any problems. I also added a small "Softner" to the bottom of the tube to prevent bullet tip damage.

I only use "Stock" pullers.

 

[KLYDE]

That grip and pull looks a heck of a lot easier than banging away on my bench vise anvil. May have to get one of those.

Back to the kinetic puller. I have an old RCBS and it has a collet that tightens on the bullet case rim. No chance of primer hitting anything. I don't know how the new pullers are made.

 

[Rule3]

I heard on the Internet that there is a massive recall of all of those mistake hammers.!

Big class action suit so if you have been killed buy using one you can collect $7.39.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I guess there will always be interwebz based hysteria about many things but this one just grabbed me and didn't let go. This one just seems like it would need that perfect storm to actually happen.

I agree there are several aternatives to the hammer and I personally use the hornady collet puller for most work. But the hammer still sees all the lead bullets as I still see no way of reclaiming them. If I don't care to reclaim them then I just insert the case into the shell holder, raise it, crush grab the bullet with vice grips, and lower the case that is now missing the mangled lead bullet that later is melted back down.

I was just curious if there was anything I wasn't thinking about on how this would happen. But then I'm also curious becuase I've pushed out many primers from cases with a universal decapper or the sizing die and one would think that would set one off eventually. Nope, still none. But then I'm not hammer whacking the press.

As a side note, does anyone else remember that Lee bullet puller they were supposed to introduce? I'm still waiting to throw money at them for that thing.

 

[moxie]

From another thread that I did not wish to further derail there was talk that a kinetic hammer or inertia bullet puller (whatever you prefer to call them) combined with the use of a shell holder instead of the rubber band held collet may cause a kaboom.



I'm at a loss. The one and only reason I can see this happening is if your primer isn't seated all the way and you try to use the shell holder. I can see if the primer hits the shell holder off center hard enough then it could ignite. That's pretty much the only way I can see this happening.

My issue is I can see no other way of a kaboom besides a high or unseated primer. Crimped primer pocket cases often don't allow a primer to fully seat and I'm seeing more and more crimped primer pockets on store bought factory ammo. I've read that the newer "green" primers are bad about backing out thus they are crimping them in place. True or not either way there is a lot of crimped primer pockets these days.

So how else could this be possible??? You would have to have one sloppy fitting case in the shell holder to have enough room to move around so that a primer could have a chance of hitting something to set it off. What am I still not seeing???

The reason you're not seeing anything is because there's nothing there.

It's all bogus.

I saw the issue on another thread also but hoped it would go away. Since you've resurrected it, I had to answer.

 

[gm272gs]

That grip and pull looks a heck of a lot easier than banging away on my bench vise anvil. May have to get one of those...

They are nice, but if you're pulling lead bullets, they won't work. Always nice to have the green hammer for those.

 

[Maximumbob54]

The reason you're not seeing anything is because there's nothing there.

It's all bogus.

I saw the issue on another thread also but hoped it would go away. Since you've resurrected it, I had to answer.

I had to ask. I dislike when things niggle in the back of my mind.

 

[Rule3]

I just bought the whole RCBS collet die puller as I bought a big box of reloaded ammo. No way was I banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee, get my bullets for nothing and my chicks for free

All the bullets are JHP 40, 45, 357 and 44 Mag So the collet although not perfect yanked them all out. The Bozo who loaded them crimped the living you know out of them!

It will indeed destroy LEAD bullets.

 

[SMSgt]

All I know is I once mis-seated a primer due to a crimped pocket. It was distorted, crinkled, etc. I put the unloaded primed case in my 4566 and released the slide. Bang!

Will a kinetic hammer fire one? I imagine it could. I'd rather trash a round than mess with breaking it down.

 

[Jaymo]

I call BS.
I've also never had any trouble with my RCBS green hammer damaging bullets or boolits. It has a thick piece of felt in the nose of it.
I've also never had any trouble recovering my powder when using it to pull a bullet.

Remember those military surplus spotter rounds?
They're the ones that can go kaboom if you pull them with a kinetic bullet puller.
Well, I pulled one with my green hammer.
It did not go kaboom.
Of course, mine does have that thick felt plug in the nose.

If a round is crimped or sealed, just seat the bullet a little deeper before pulling it.
Works for me.

 

[HKSmith]

My vote is for "Internet Rumor" or "Unfounded Fear of the Impossible". A primer fires when the primer cup is driven into the anvil by the firing pin, but the anvil has to be against the bottom of the primer cup. Static electricity at/on the reloading bench is a very remote posibility.

A high primer does not have the anvil bottomed out in the primer pocket -- ignition failure. An inverted primer might have the anvil driven into the primer cup by a shell holder because the primer cup cannot move in the primer pocket because of friction -- possible ignition, but it's noise only no powder.

An inverted primer can be safely and easily 'decapped' because nothing is holding the anvil against the priming compound. There is nothing restraing the anvil in this situation.

A primer fires when the firing pin impacts the primer cup against the raised center of the anvil. A firing pin may strike a primer off-center, but some portion of the primer cup firing pin dent must hit the "point" of the anvil. (Just look at a hundred semi-auto pieces of range brass and see how many firing pin impacts are "in the center", further proof that 'close enough' works almost every time -- 99.9999% .)

So think about this statement: A vehicle's pressure on the road is EXACTLY equal to the tire air pressure. Doesn't make any difference if tire pressure is 5 psi (off road equipment, rubber tired lawn mowers) or 110 psi (heavy load trucks) .

A vehicle's pressure on the road is its weight divided by the surface area of contact with the road. If what you said were true, deflating the tires would reduce the pressure of the vehicle on the road to zero. Or, removing half the vehicle's weight without changing the tire pressure would leave the vehicle's pressure on the road unchanged. Both of these are clearly not true.

 

[dickttx]

I agree that may be a very slight possibility, without much probability.

As somewhat of an aside. I bought this for $1 at Goodwill. Just dump your powder an bullets into it from the hammer puller, then shake the powder back into the jug. Open the top and there are your undamaged lead bullets.

 

[Maximumbob54]

^^^That^^^ may be the smartest silly thing I've ever seen.

 

[David R]

One person mentioned it. No examples or proof.

I dismiss it totally.

David

 

[Rule3]

I agree that may be a very slight possibility, without much probability.

As somewhat of an aside. I bought this for $1 at Goodwill. Just dump your powder an bullets into it from the hammer puller, then shake the powder back into the jug. Open the top and there are your undamaged lead bullets.

I prefer stirred not shaken

I dump mine in a plastic rubbermaid container and pick out the bullets. Yes, I actually touch lead with my bare fingers.

I then make a nice pile of the powder outside with a little trail like in the movies and light it. Such fun!

 

[SMSgt]

I agree that may be a very slight possibility, without much probability.

As somewhat of an aside. I bought this for $1 at Goodwill. Just dump your powder an bullets into it from the hammer puller, then shake the powder back into the jug. Open the top and there are your undamaged lead bullets.

And if it happens to blow up, family can put your ashes in it.