Laser vs Night Sight
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sipowicz
Member
I have quite a few guys qualify with lasers, night sights, and flashlights mounted on their guns. The guys with lasers usually don't do any better than the guys with regular sights...in fact, when I had a guy turn off his laser on his j-frame, he did better with the open sights...
Spotteddog
Member
All three if you can!
But I'm partial to the large wooden mallet that's in the old Warner Brothers cartoons!
But I'm partial to the large wooden mallet that's in the old Warner Brothers cartoons!
S. Hammer
Member
"When I say WHOA, I MEAN WHOA!!!!!"
My only experience with laser sight was late one evening, when the little red dot was very visible. We were shooting two-handed from waist level at targets 30-100 yards distance. Really easy to hit them, even a 20 inch wide steel plate at 100 yards. Way too dark to have hit those targets so consistantly and easily with any other sights. I was impressed!!
However, I doubt I would even see that little red dot during rapid, instinctive, close in point shooting. Still, IF I had to use a gun I was not practiced with, at night or in low light, with a bit of time to "aim", I might love that little red dot. Sure would not want to see a little red dot quivering around on my belly!!
Niklas
However, I doubt I would even see that little red dot during rapid, instinctive, close in point shooting. Still, IF I had to use a gun I was not practiced with, at night or in low light, with a bit of time to "aim", I might love that little red dot. Sure would not want to see a little red dot quivering around on my belly!!
Niklas
myanof
Member
My recommendation is to try a laser before you buy one. I personally have not adapted to the concept, but I really like night sights. Then again I'm old and set in my shooting ways
The Highlander
Member
I have regular sights, night sights, flashlights, and lasers. Like them all. My preferred method is to have a Surefire LED Defender held weak hand, with the laser on as well. I have found that using the Surefire, it makes no difference if I am practicing a gun with or without night sights. The "glow" is sufficient to light up both front and rear sights. That said, all things being equal, I'll still take night sights on a gun if they are available.
As for the visibility of lasers. Try a Viridian green laser. If you can, try it side by side with a red laser. The difference is amazing. During the day, the green is as visible as red at night.
As for the visibility of lasers. Try a Viridian green laser. If you can, try it side by side with a red laser. The difference is amazing. During the day, the green is as visible as red at night.
KeithCarter
Member
When the .38 special Combat Masterpieces came out in stainless, I bought one of the first. Even the rear sight was stainless (next year, they went to blue).
You don't shoot long range at night. I found resting my flashlight on my shoulder would light up the target and my stainless sights both. The sighyts were dull, so didn't glow like nickel. Only problem was I had to shoot one handed, but up close that was enough.
Keithcarter
NRA Life
You don't shoot long range at night. I found resting my flashlight on my shoulder would light up the target and my stainless sights both. The sighyts were dull, so didn't glow like nickel. Only problem was I had to shoot one handed, but up close that was enough.
Keithcarter
NRA Life
Dan Cash
Member
I am surely not fond of lasers operating in the visible spectrum. If you can hit your tqarget with the laser you did not need to; you would have hit it with the bullet. Further, the laser makes you an outstanding target. In total darkness, using NV goggles and IR lasers is a different situation and the laser becomes a most satisfactory tool.
Just my opinion,
Dan
Just my opinion,
Dan
Dan,
I have given some thought to just what you mention, that a visible laser sight makes you an easily located target. I have not been able to decide what the likely outcomes are of using a visible laser sight, say for home defence or in case of attacks outside the home. In case of home defence, do the "aiming" or distracting (to intruder) benefits outweigh revealing your location? For personal attacks where shooting is at arms lenght, what, if any, advantage does the laser sight provide? How would you, or others, analyse this?
For me, the decision has been, as always before, to use a handgun that I can handle easily one-handed and point shoot accurately at short distances of personal attacks and even for potentially longer distances of home invasions. But, I have been using handguns off and on for decades, sometimes heavily.
For an even lesser practiced or skilled defensive handgun shooter, especially in a home defence situation, I am not so convienced about what is best. I can imagine aiming as best I can at someone breaking through a door -- there a laser sight might be great -- but, for other, closer encounters?
I suspect that this, like so many other aspects of defence, depends heavily on actual situation.
Niklas
I have given some thought to just what you mention, that a visible laser sight makes you an easily located target. I have not been able to decide what the likely outcomes are of using a visible laser sight, say for home defence or in case of attacks outside the home. In case of home defence, do the "aiming" or distracting (to intruder) benefits outweigh revealing your location? For personal attacks where shooting is at arms lenght, what, if any, advantage does the laser sight provide? How would you, or others, analyse this?
For me, the decision has been, as always before, to use a handgun that I can handle easily one-handed and point shoot accurately at short distances of personal attacks and even for potentially longer distances of home invasions. But, I have been using handguns off and on for decades, sometimes heavily.
For an even lesser practiced or skilled defensive handgun shooter, especially in a home defence situation, I am not so convienced about what is best. I can imagine aiming as best I can at someone breaking through a door -- there a laser sight might be great -- but, for other, closer encounters?
I suspect that this, like so many other aspects of defence, depends heavily on actual situation.
Niklas
I personally don't like the idea of the laser! What if the battery goes dead on you. Instead of depending on gagets. One should learn to use the equipment that comes on the weapon. Night sights are great though, but IMHO, all one needs is a night sight on the front.
Dan Cash
Member
NicklasP
In my opinion, a very close range encounter is not improved by a laser as one tends to point and shoot. I think even a lot of very practiced pistoleros do this regardless of training. The big thing to me is to find the end of the gun.
The target is not going to see the dot on his chest as in the movies. Indoors, after the first shot, smoke will hang in the air and there is a red or green rod running back to you.
SIE107: I agree with you regarding finding the front sight in the dark or at least the front of the gun. I too like to keep the equipment simple. Relying upon gizmos can leave one in the lurch when they fail and fail they will.
Dan
In my opinion, a very close range encounter is not improved by a laser as one tends to point and shoot. I think even a lot of very practiced pistoleros do this regardless of training. The big thing to me is to find the end of the gun.
The target is not going to see the dot on his chest as in the movies. Indoors, after the first shot, smoke will hang in the air and there is a red or green rod running back to you.
SIE107: I agree with you regarding finding the front sight in the dark or at least the front of the gun. I too like to keep the equipment simple. Relying upon gizmos can leave one in the lurch when they fail and fail they will.
Dan
Dan, an interesting exercise in " almost blind point shooting" is to do it in very poor light and shooting with gun either low or close to body, or both, especially at targets not directly in front of shooter. IF one has good hand-eye coordination AND a handgun that points where eye is looking one can be pleasantly surprised. One can also be not so pleasantly surprised. I have no idea how well a representative cross section of defensive handgun shooters would perform with their duty or self defense guns. I know I have revolvers I can shoot quite well under this condition and ones I cannot.
I will suggest to one of my shooting instructers that he should quit incorporating stuff from movies and TV. He is corrupting those of us whose TVs died long, long ago.
Niklas
safearm
US Veteran
I'm a fan of lasers. I have one (Crimson Trace grips) on my daily carry gun, a S&W 442. I also have CT grips on a 1911.
Over the years of training police officers, I've found that it takes a great detail of time and effort to train someone to not only follow the fundamentals of aimed fire, i.e., sight alignment, trigger control, breathing, etc., but also to watch the actions of the target. Many people apparently cannot learn to do both no matter how much training they receive. That is where the utility of the laser comes in.
The shooter has only to place, and keep, the dot on the target. It is relatively easy to train a person to maintain the dot on target as they pull the trigger; it is certainly easier than having the person try to maintain sight alignment at the same time.
While it is necessary to train for the time when all of the "gadgets" (batteries mainly) fail, the progress toward the point where a shooter can hold his/her gun on target, AND watch the target's actions, is much more rapid than traditional training methods.
I've also used this training mechanism to teach military members with optical sights, primary red dots. Again, the goal is to train the person to watch the target's actions while holding the weapon on target for instant engagement, not just basic marksmanship.
While there may be concern that a visible laser can identify the shooter's position, in a self defense scenario, the bad guy probably already knows where the intended victim is. The potential deterrent effect of a laser dot projected the attacker's chest is worth the risk in my opinion.
Over the years of training police officers, I've found that it takes a great detail of time and effort to train someone to not only follow the fundamentals of aimed fire, i.e., sight alignment, trigger control, breathing, etc., but also to watch the actions of the target. Many people apparently cannot learn to do both no matter how much training they receive. That is where the utility of the laser comes in.
The shooter has only to place, and keep, the dot on the target. It is relatively easy to train a person to maintain the dot on target as they pull the trigger; it is certainly easier than having the person try to maintain sight alignment at the same time.
While it is necessary to train for the time when all of the "gadgets" (batteries mainly) fail, the progress toward the point where a shooter can hold his/her gun on target, AND watch the target's actions, is much more rapid than traditional training methods.
I've also used this training mechanism to teach military members with optical sights, primary red dots. Again, the goal is to train the person to watch the target's actions while holding the weapon on target for instant engagement, not just basic marksmanship.
While there may be concern that a visible laser can identify the shooter's position, in a self defense scenario, the bad guy probably already knows where the intended victim is. The potential deterrent effect of a laser dot projected the attacker's chest is worth the risk in my opinion.
BarbC
Member
I think of the laser as an optional tool. It's not my primary means of sighting but it's there in case of a compromised position I may find myself in, such as unable to bring the gun up to eye or hip level.
cmort666
Member
I'm not a fan of things I consider "gimmicks". Night sights are fine. Lights on guns, lasers on handguns and the like don't do anything for me at all.
G
Guest
I don't know of a single Law Enforcement Agency that allows the use of lasers by Street Officers. The biggest draw back to the laser is if there are two or more individuals using them neither person can be absolutely sure which 'little red or green dot' is theirs. And, I really I doubt that the Bad Guy/Gal is going to be worried about seeing a laser "dancing" on his/her chest. But, he/she is likely going to see the bright dot as a great aiming point and a wonderful place to direct his/her fire.
The bottom line is that these are just another Toy being sold by Hollywierd and lots of people are buying into the idea.
Look what Dirty Harry did for the .44 Magnum!!! But, then he also used a "...light .44 Special load..." or so he said in "Magnum Force" when he was on the Range with the Bad Guys.
The bottom line is that these are just another Toy being sold by Hollywierd and lots of people are buying into the idea.
Look what Dirty Harry did for the .44 Magnum!!! But, then he also used a "...light .44 Special load..." or so he said in "Magnum Force" when he was on the Range with the Bad Guys.
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