Laser: Yes or No & why?

[KOBO]

Thank you all for your insightful responses; as expected there is a wide variety of opinions on the matter.

I am a great believer in muscle memory and have used it with great success in other areas of life. I too expect to practice relentlessly with my non-dominate hand to make it more reliable.

The idea of the laser I've come to feel is just one more thing I can use in my favor should the need arise; I dont expect it to replace the iron sites; in fact I expect to practice as much if not more with them than with the laser.

In a confrontational situation where a 1/2 of a second counts it might not even come into play but if I need it in a situation I guess it would better to say I did than I should have.

As stated in a couple of responses it can be perhaps more useful on the smaller pocket guns than really needed on larger ones where you can have better control. I live in the North East but dress all year round like someone living in Florida (t-shirt & shorts; for some reason I just dont get cold like other people do) so because of that concealability is an issue and something like the Bodyguard might be the way I go.

Thanks again.

K

 

[lrrifleman]

I have only one firearm with a laser, and that is an AR platform CQB rifle.

None of my handguns wear a laser, nor do their design readily facilitate the mounting of a laser. In my opinion, if I encounter a threat at seven yards or less, and I can't place my shots while looking over the sights, I have more problems than the miscreant in front of me.

 

[DennyBoscobel]

While I’m far from being an expert on the matter and still consider myself a novice, I can speak from my own experience. I think lasers are very useful though on the range I try not to spend all my time using the laser but instead divide my range time equally between using the laser and iron sights.
Also, what with neither my eyes nor my reflexes being what they once were (I’m 62 and disabled), I think the laser can help a lot in making up some for my deficiencies.
At home they are a great aid in my dry fire practice too. In fact I plan to invest in one of those LaserLyte home practice systems.
As for holsters companies like MTR Custom Leather, DARA Holsters and Multi Holsters can accommodate almost any handgun/laser combination. MTR makes some beautiful leather rigs and DARA makes both IWB and OWB Kydex holsters.
I have a Viridian C5L mounted to my M&P full size. It’s a fairly compact laser/light combo unit with a green laser and a high intensity light that can be set to either steady on or strobe. On strobe if it was shined in my eyes it would certainly be disorienting to say the least and I’m hoping between the strobe light and laser at best it would dissuade an attacker or at least buy me a second or two more time to identify. Another neat feature that Viridian features with both their C5L and X5L units is the ECR (Enhanced Combat Readiness). If you order a holster from either MTR or DARA and and have either of the Viridian units you can select the ECR On option which automatically will turn on the laser upon drawing the weapon. Viridian also offers the ECR On with some of their TacLoc holsters as well.
Another laser even more compact is Armalaser’ GTO/FLX laser that can be set up to be activated when you acquire a normal firing grip on the gun.
So to sum up I think for many lasers can offer an advantage as- well as other benefits, just don’t buy junk and don’t become reliant solely upon them.

 

[Rastoff]

From my experience, there is no logical, rational argument to forgo a laser...though personal bias will prevail.

OK, challenge accepted. I will attempt to give you some rational reasoning as to why a laser may not be the right tool. It begins with this:

Gizmos don't replace skill achieved through disciplined practice.

Rpg is exactly right. Equipment will help, but there is no magic. Proficiency only comes with hard work, seeking quality training and doing a lot of practice.

First rational point:
Lasers do not make you a better shot. Some people mistakenly think that adding a laser will immediately shrink group size. For a very select few this is true, but for most it doesn't help at all.

Second rational point:
Lasers can cause people to train/practice less. Because some believe the laser makes them a better shot, they may tend to practice less. Yes, I have actually heard at least two guys say, "I don't need to work on accuracy. I have a laser."

Third rational point:
Batteries. Yes, modern lasers with modern batteries last a really long time. Even so, it's not infinite. Murphy is alive and well and living in the US. Just when you need the laser most, the battery will fail you. If you have practiced with the sights this won't be an issue.

Fourth rational point:
Lasers are difficult to see in daylight. Even the green lasers are washed out in bright light. For most defensive shootings this isn't a big issue because they most commonly happen in low light.

Fifth rational point:
Lasers work both ways. This is a small point, but you will give away your position.

There are more, but I've made my point.

There are some really good reasons to have a laser though. If a shooter practices with their sights, the laser can be an excellent additional sighting system.

First rational point for:
In difficult positions. A laser allows the shooter to stay behind cover while getting a well aimed shot on the bad guy.

Second rational point for:
Vision difficulties. As we age, our eyes weaken. Almost 100% of the population suffers from presbyopia as we get older. This means we can't focus on the front sight like we used to. The laser allows a quality, aimed shot by focusing on the target.



In the end you won't find me telling anyone not to get a laser. If you want one, get one. It should not be solely relied on, but with practice, it can be very helpful.

 

[OldChief]

I have Crimson Trace grips on my two carry firearms, a PPKs (.380) and a Colt Rail Gun (.45 ACP). Why? Because at night, in most cases, iron sights are useless. Yes, they're ok in a well lit area but you need something better in darkness. Also, when a dot is put on a person it can create a situation that will stop the illegal act before you have to fire. Why Crimson Trace? These grips do not change the overall configuration of the firearm and add very little weight. They're also very easy to activate, just a little pressure on the switch located on the front of the grip. If you're going to carry or have to use your firearm in a self-defense situation at night, a laser device is the only way to go.

 

[Rastoff]

If it's so dark you can't see the sights, you cannot possibly have positively identified the target.

 

[Ranger17]

When I'm ready to carry it will be with my Shield (no laser) as near any time I would be out and about would be in daylight. I work to become proficient and confident using stock sights on all my guns and dont want to "rely" on a laser while there is at least some light out.
That said, if i feel the need for home defense it would likely fall on my full size MP. And I could see that has potential for adding a laser to give me more options inside for any time day or night.

I have watched shooters at the range who had their laser on the entire visit. Some still had accuracy issues at short distances (could be person or equipment) but what I really noticed was watching them try to line up for a quick 2nd shot. As I could see their laser jump due to the muzzle flip and then bounce around on the target while they aimed again--couldnt help but feel they were relying solely on a little pointer rather than overall handling and form.
I'd rather rely on my mechanics regardless of the situation or conditions, and then if something like a laser helps it is a bonus but not a requirement for me.
just my .02

 

[Old cop]

The instances where I had to use my issued .38 in the line of duty did not afford me the time to aim the weapon in most instances. Things happen suddenly and with great violence. You'll have time to react the way you've trained. I'm not a fan of a laser on a self defense handgun.

 

[Protected One]

Greetings.

While I decide on a EDC I consider the possibility of getting one with a laser; I am extremely conscious of the fact that you want to make sure that you hit what you're pointing at and not something off to the side so, if I find myself in a confrontational & stressful situation, seeing that my aim is indeed located on the target is something I would like. And if it happens to add a hair more intimidation factor all the better.

My question then to you is: why you did or did not chose a laser for your self defense weapon.

Thanks in advance.K

Having read story after story about self defense shootings, I'm convinced that if any of us are involved in one it will be at such a close distance that a laser will be irrelevant. Probably inside 6'.
It's quite possible that even our iron sights won't be able to be used. In short...I say no to relying on a laser, though I have nothing against having one in case the less likely "distance encounter" occurs.

 

[kcbet2]

My vote is with the no laser crowd. I see it as a crutch for developing good shooting skills.

 

[ColoFirefighter]

I love my Shield 9 with the CT. It took a little while to get used to the added "bulge" in front of my middle finger but I no longer notice. I think it is a valuable tool. At the range I use my iron sights. It is a great fear factor at home in the night and it sits in my nightstand. I would buy one with a grip activation vs a switch if you want one. My favorite edc.

 

[SoCalDep]

I have a laser on my duty gun as well as several others.

Rundown:
S&W M&P9L - CTC Lasergrip
Beretta M9A1 - Streamlight TLR-2
S&W Shield - Streamlight TLR-6
S&W 342PD - CTC Lasergrip
Beretta 92FS - CTC Lasergrip
Glock 19 - CTC Lasergrip

I've had lasers on several other handguns I don't own any more.

One must understand both the benefits and limitations of their equipment.

If one trains and uses the laser properly, it is a supplemental aiming system to the primary iron sights. The laser allows faster shooting in low light conditions and shooting from unconventional positions such as when injured. Especially in low light conditions when target identification may be more difficult, the laser allows a target-focus for better PID while effectively orienting the handgun toward the target. The idea that "if one can't see the sights they surely can't ID the target" is incorrect. In low light conditions, close vision and detailed vision deteriorate significantly. Add sudden stress to the mix and close vision deteriorates even more. While one "may" see their sights well enough in low light, it is quite possible, if not extremely likely that they will be unable to effectively do so while identifying their target. Further, if they, as has happened recently in law enforcement, are trained to solely focus on the sights, they may miss threat identifiers or cues that indicate the initial threat is no longer and the time to shoot is over. While it may be too dark to "effectively" use the sights, it may at the same time be possible to "effectively" identify the target.

This is not to say that a laser is a solution to all problems, or even all problems with low light. I agree with a post above that a weapon-light is a much better investment than a laser if one had to choose between them. I don't and use both.

I've used lasers on duty since my department approved them in early 2003 and find them to be extremely useful tools if used correctly. This happens to be a similar idea to how I find a firearm itself to be an extremely useful tool if used correctly.

 

[Smitty357]

IMO, no sir. Because in certain situations u may not want to give away ur position. I know some lasers come with a pressure switch. SO when u squeeze the grip the laser activates. A manual laser could be different, as u could turn it off an on if u chose.

 

[thewittmp]

At home they are a great aid in my dry fire practice too. In fact I plan to invest in one of those LaserLyte home practice systems.

I highly recommend their training cartridge - I have one in each caliber I own. I would save the money and not buy the electronic targets, though - I have one and never use it - various objects around the house work just fine for me.

 

[gen3guy]

I personally will not use one. It's not about a red dot. It's about the target. I practice low light 'point and shoot' and I think I'm good in most situations. I believe that its possible to become so distracted by that bright point of light that you might fail to understand the actions of the target. In other words, you will be more likely to shoot when you shouldn't have or not shoot when you should have. Both scenarios don't end well for you.

 

[Beemer-mark]

Having read story after story about self defense shootings, I'm convinced that if any of us are involved in one it will be at such a close distance that a laser will be irrelevant. Probably inside 6'.
It's quite possible that even our iron sights won't be able to be used. In short...I say no to relying on a laser, though I have nothing against having one in case the less likely "distance encounter" occurs.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. As a civilian, defensive shooting isn't going to allow the luxury of a weaver hold and aligning any sights. That's why most early pistols - Colt 1903 or browning 380 - never really had any sights. People should practice clearing the holster and point shooting at 3 to 6 feet.

 

[trooper2899]

How many work-a-day cops do U see walking around with a laser equipped firearm ? If U can't hit a silhouette target at 7 yds consistently in the K5 area you better get some professional coaching....think about getting sued for millions if U hit the wrong person. Watch Hickock45 on youtube hit a Gong at 80 yds with almost every size handgun - people today generally don't appreciate how accurate modern handguns are .

 

[gnjeepn]

I believe it all comes down to preference. When I bought my first carry gun I bought an M&P 9c with the Crimson trace grips. If I had it to do over again I wouldn't spend the extra money. I spend a lot of time at the range and feel confident that in a situation that I have to use my weapon I will be accurate. I did change my iron sights to Ameriglo Pro I-dots and really like them. Some prefer the laser some don't.

 

[rat357]

I was on the fence about getting a laser and the factor that helped me decide to get one was the Crimson Trace video showing how it can helpp a bad guy make an informed decision. Pulling the weapon with the laser instantly on and putting a red dot in the middle of his chest is quite persuasive.

I put an CT LG-305on my Model 60 Pro Series and since using it I will never give it up. Number 1, which is not laser related, the grip itself is incredible. The BEST fit and function of any of the grips I have tried (and I own S&W, Pachmayr, Hogue and Uncle Mikes). The full combat rubber combined with the interior air bubble behind the backstrap make my Buffalo Bore 357 loads easy to handle and get back on target for a follow up shot.

As far as the laser is concerned, for dry fire practice it is the bomb! You want to see what your REALLY doing when the trigger snaps? Watch the laser on the target. It really helped me find my best grip method, trigger finger placement and stroke. Dry fire saves you thousands of rounds plus the range fees and you can do it anytime anywhere.

There is no issue of being dependent on a laser such as the CT because is has a master switch that enables you to turn it off when you don;t want to use it. In the normal SD scenario giving away my position is not an issue, the perp is most likely 5 to 10 ft in front of me. In a situation where giving away my position may be an issue I can just relax my middle finger and deactivate the grip switch until I need it. I have a Trijicon night sight on the front but the laser makes it possible for me to keep my vision focused on the threat, looking for the front sight.

There has been no issue with holster fit. The laser is merely a bump at the top of the right side grip panel and causes no interference with the holster. I carry OWB in Bianchi and Bulldog leather, with and wothout retention and no issues.

Register with CT and they will send you free batteries ever year for life. In summary, there are no negative aspects and lots of valuable ones. If I were buying again I would go green for the daytime usability but 90% of threats happen after dark/low light.

 

[debbi26]

Laser yes or no

I just removed the Crimson Trace laser from my EDC Airweight 642. I didn't really 'use' the laser as it never seemed 'quite accurate' and I prefer the sights.

But the main reason was after shooting several rounds at the range the other day, my palm had a few red marks from the roughness of the CT grip. I just ordered a Hogue grip from Amazon. I know I won't miss the laser.