I need to replicate the 38 special loads of the mid to late 40's using 158g lead round nose bullets.
Anyone got a pet recipe to share?
Anyone got a pet recipe to share?
Late 40s 38 special
- Thread starter zonker5
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Are you looking for light target loads, standard loads or high velocity loads? I imagine a variety loads existed back then just like today.
If you using powder of recent manufacture I'd just use current load load.
If you using powder of recent manufacture I'd just use current load load.
gwpercle
Member
38 Special Standard Loads , 158 grain RN ,cast lead bullet.
Sized .357 , S&W model 64 ...four inch barrel.
4.0 grains Bullseye (975 fps)
4.0 grains Red Dot ( 950 fps)
4.0 grains HP-38 ( 845 fps)
These are my pet loads for 38 special.
If you have Unique powder , 4.7 grains isn't bad , but the faster burning powders are more better.
Gary
Sized .357 , S&W model 64 ...four inch barrel.
4.0 grains Bullseye (975 fps)
4.0 grains Red Dot ( 950 fps)
4.0 grains HP-38 ( 845 fps)
These are my pet loads for 38 special.
If you have Unique powder , 4.7 grains isn't bad , but the faster burning powders are more better.
Gary
The 38 special cartridge was introduced in 1899 as a black powder round. It reportedly gave velocities of around 850 ft./s with 158 grain lead round nose bullet. Smokeless powder loads of that era were reportedly loaded with 3.3 grains of Bullseye and about the same velocity. While many different powders and components have been used over the years, the standard loading hasn't really changed very much. Given variations from going lot to lot of powders and components, it's obviously impossible to replicate 1940s loads exactly. The Speer manual shows a velocity of 752 ft./s with 3.1 grains of Bullseye and 814 ft./s with 3.5 g of Bullseye. That's from a 6 inch barrel K 38 and 158 grain lead round nose bullet. I think if you tried a 3.3 grains of Bullseye load, you'll come as close to average factory ammunition of the last hundred years as you're likely to get.
Yep;
What they said.
What they said.
Try 3.0 grs of Titewad with a 158 gr cast RN. Yes, Titewad not Titegroup.
760 fps out of my 4" mod 10-5 with only 10 fps ES. Very clean burning.
760 fps out of my 4" mod 10-5 with only 10 fps ES. Very clean burning.
OP
Titewad? You mean they have named a powder after me?
Thanks to all for the input, now it's off to the loading bench to see if I can make something appropriate for a 1940's vintage k-frame.
-Z-
FWIW, I read somewhere that Herco was common for early 38 SPL loadings, so you might look into that.
From the 1992 manual, max load for 158 LSWC is 4.5gr @ 930fps, so you might try 4gr.
Alliant Manuals
From the 1992 manual, max load for 158 LSWC is 4.5gr @ 930fps, so you might try 4gr.
Alliant Manuals
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ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
You didn't answer the questions on what type of load you're looking for. The .38 Special is fairly straightforward to load, just pick a velocity and replicate it.
Back then the powders were more limited than today so Bullseye and Unique will probably be reloaded used although there are probably two dozen powders that will do it today.
I would use the medium fast powder you already own and develop a 158gr cast bulletproof right around 800 fps and call it good. I would say 3.7gr to 4.0gr W231 will give you what you're looking for.
Bullseye, Unique, Red Dot, Zip, AA#2, Universal, Green Dot and a bunch of others will do it too.
I shoot a 158gr LSWC over 4.0gr W231 and a 148gr DEWC over 3.4gr W231 all the time in my 1948 M&P.
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My favorite load is 4.3 gr 231 behind a 158 gr. cast lead.
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Take the alleged velocities of many old time loads with a sack of salt. Velocities in 1899 were most likely calculated from ballistic pendulum results and might also be padded a bit since there was no practical way for anyone to check them. Now if someone lately has produced some black powder loads and clocked those on a chronograph, we might have a better idea what the used to get way back when.
Around 4.5 gr Unique clocks pretty much the same as todays 158 RNL loads.
Around 4.5 gr Unique clocks pretty much the same as todays 158 RNL loads.
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One of the members here, Alk8944, actually chronographed some .38 Special black powder loads in 2016. He used 21.5 grains FFFg in old balloon head cases that I had and sent to him. This load propelled a 158 grain cast bullet to 822 ft/sec in a 6 inch barreled Model 10. He also got similar results with several smokeless loads from the 1960's and 1970's. These results are not really much different from claimed velocities from 1899 to the present.
Smithbug
Member
I made a load using 158gr SWCs with vitavouri N350 that got me the low 1000s out of my 6in 66 and 850 out of my 36. I used 6.3gr of powder which is a max standard pressure load according to their load data
Titewad might be THE powder for tightwads. Cheaper than many
other powders, low charge weights and so clean burning that
you save money on cleaning supplies
I have loaded and chronographed many cast bullet 38 spl loads and several
different factory loads. Standard factory 158 gr RN loads
run around 800 fps or a bit less in 4" barrels and some will
barely break 700 fps in 2" barrels. Not very hot but even so
I prefer to keep my handloads no hotter for my old non
model marked K frames. My oldest was made around 1910
and is still tight.
Qc Pistolero
Member
I've got an old ''pre K''frame 5 screws 4'' in .38 Spl;when I tried to get the usual 158gr 850fps with it,I could've sworn that the frame was telling me''I've had enough...I quit!''
I stopped before it quitted.Nowadays,I keep them at around 750fps and the gun seems happy.After all,one has to have respect for an old lady!I'd hate myself if I'd bust that sweet long action.
I stopped before it quitted.Nowadays,I keep them at around 750fps and the gun seems happy.After all,one has to have respect for an old lady!I'd hate myself if I'd bust that sweet long action.
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